The EU Referendum Hokey Cokey

[TQR 14,387]

16 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Brexit Party launching their campaigning.

 

Condition is Johnson ditching his deal for a pact, which is never going to happen.

 

Put a few quid on a Labour government.

A minority one, but I’m inclined to agree.

 

That'll basically mean having to hold a second referendum, no u-turns from Corbyn, to keep Lib Dems, Green and SNP from being obstructive.

 

Goodo.

 

Also thinking, wouldn’t it be fitting that Farage’s steadfastness on this matter indirectly caused Brexit potentially being avoided altogether.

[runebomme 377]

 

 

 

if you vote for The Labour  I will look like this

 

 

 

 

 

please don't and I will look like this

[Deathray 2,940]

28 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said:

A minority one, but I’m inclined to agree.

 

That'll basically mean having to hold a second referendum, no u-turns from Corbyn, to keep Lib Dems, Green and SNP from being obstructive.

 

Goodo.

 

Also thinking, wouldn’t it be fitting that Farage’s steadfastness on this matter indirectly caused Brexit potentially being avoided altogether.

 

Final decision will be deadline day - 14th November so watch this space; best to keep eye away from polls until after then as we don't know how many people will actually have the option of voting for 'preferred party' until BXP stance is confirmed.

 

Obviously Lib Dems won't work with Corbyn in a coalition. But if we can get some extra Labour seats from the split Tory v BXP vote  then we're looking at a potential confidence and supply agreement between Lab and the SNP. 

 

It would be hilarious if it was Farage that prevented Brexit to be honest. 

[msc 18,439]

Blimey. Could be the biggest game changer since Sadhana.

[Deathray 2,940]

8 minutes ago, msc said:

Blimey. Could be the biggest game changer since Sadhana.

 

Honestly in the space of two hours I've gone from being absolutely terrified of an inevitable Conservative majority to thinking a Labour government is possible.....

 

Would be karma for all the times that the Tories have got in due to left vote being split though.

[runebomme 377]

yes

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/31/surge-young-people-registering-to-vote-general-election

[Grim Up North 3,725]

8 minutes ago, runebomme said:

yes

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/31/surge-young-people-registering-to-vote-general-election

 

Election announced - people register to vote shocker!

 

Even more shocking 65% of them are under 25 - what you mean the people who need to register to vote for the first time because they are not already registered?

 

[msc 18,439]

2 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

 

Election announced - people register to vote shocker!

 

Even more shocking 65% of them are under 25 - what you mean the people who need to register to vote for the first time because they are not already registered?

 

 

Don't laugh Grim, its notable because u25s tended to be the lowest percentage who actually voted in elections. What made 2017 stand out is that huge numbers of youth voters actually went and voted for once and helped fuck over May's intended majority.

[runebomme 377]

1 minute ago, Grim Up North said:

 

Election announced - people register to vote shocker!

 

Even more shocking 65% of them are under 25 - what you mean the people who need to register to vote for the first time because they are not already registered?

 

I am planing to get a bottle of good whisky and watch this happen

[Deathray 2,940]

24 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

 

Election announced - people register to vote shocker!

 

Even more shocking 65% of them are under 25 - what you mean the people who need to register to vote for the first time because they are not already registered?

 

 

Yup same headlines as always.

 

That said I expect a massive turnout of 70+% given the clear daylight between the two main parties and increased avenues for protest votes on the left and right. Turnout goes up when people think it matters. And it's clear to everyone this one matters. Probably the most divisive since 1992?

[Deathray 2,940]

 

[Deathray 2,940]

Watch the Lab vote share hit the 35% mark by the Monday/Tuesday poll results.

 

 

[Deathray 2,940]

Fuck me Jo Swinson is an insufferable cunt.

 

 

[Paul Bearer 6,101]

1 minute ago, Kinnock said:

Fuck me Jo Swinson is an insufferable cunt.

 

 

How long did it take you to realise that? 

[Deathray 2,940]

4 minutes ago, Paul Bearer said:

How long did it take you to realise that? 

 

Oh I already knew that but the latest fucking campaign thats clogging up my twitter feed is an absolute shitshow.

 

She doesn't seem to understand that she's being treat the same as every other leader and is spitting her dummy out because she's not been invited to take part in the debates between Britain's two potential next PM's. Corbyn and Johnson.

 

Started a fucking 'Debate Her' website accusing ITV of sexism for not including her....

 

She has no chance of being Britain's next Prime Minister, hence she's included with all the other fucking also-rans. It's not rocket science.

 

 

At least Clegg never claimed a Lib Dem majority was possible.

.

[Deathray 2,940]

Fine Gael kids calling on the party to stand in UK general election and take their seats.

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-youth-wing-appeals-to-varadkar-to-contest-ni-elections-1.4070789

[TQR 14,387]

Nigel Führage isn't standing as an MP. Apparently 7 failures is enough.

[Deathray 2,940]

11 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said:

Nigel Führage isn't standing as an MP. Apparently 7 failures is enough.

 

It's more it allows him to focus on campaigning everywhere and focusing his energy on how dreadful Boris is. 

 

Sensible move.

[Deathray 2,940]

Blair tearing into Corbyn.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/f8dda012-fe19-11e9-a530-16c6c29e70ca

 

Can't be the only one who thinks the demon of the left tearing into the darling of left is incredibly good optics coming into this election.

[Toast 16,137]

I couldn't read it because of the paywall, but Corbyn can't be that bad if Bliar doesn't like him.

[Deathray 2,940]

14 minutes ago, Toast said:

I couldn't read it because of the paywall, but Corbyn can't be that bad if Bliar doesn't like him.

 

Forgot it's behind paywall.

 

Essentially my point. Blair (of all people) is criticising Corbyn for populist rhetoric and essentially urging people to back Blairite MPs.

 

It's just another step in the long running Corbynite v Blairite war inside the party. Blair did praise Corbyn back in September for blocking no deal, so he agrees with him on some things just obviously thinks he's too much of a socialist. At the end of the day most people who are happy to support Corbyn think Blair was too much of a Thatcherite anyway, so it's not going to make much difference.

 

The result of this election will shape the Labour Party for the next decade or so, it either miraculously gets in a position to form a government or it has to decide whether socialist puritanism is more important than electoral success. 

 

Quote

We are witnessing the infantilisation of British politics. The December 12 general election has been called to resolve Brexit but, if that is the question, it should be asked in a referendum. Millions of voters are confused and uncertain, lost in a maze of tactical voting conundrums. We see competing campaigns of populism — left and right — from the two parties capable of forming a government. Moderate MPs are either retiring or powerless, left to fight under banners they do not really believe in.

The spine of British politics has always been a solid centre. It has fractured. Repairing it and healing it will take time. The issue is: how, in this election, do we preserve that possibility while navigating the Brexit nightmare. 

The Conservatives’ strategy is simple: you may not like us or Brexit, but the alternative is Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn. 

Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Brexit policy is a total fraud. In this sense, Brexit party leader Nigel Farage is right. Mr Johnson got his Brexit deal with the EU by selling out unionists and agreeing to a border in the Irish Sea.

Now comes the negotiation over Britain’s future relationship with Europe. There, we have the same dilemma as beset us over Northern Ireland. Do we want access to European markets, in which case the EU will demand a level playing field on tax and regulation; or do we want the “freedom” to go our own way with the economic costs associated with leaving Europe’s trading system. 

The Conservatives insist that returning them to office “gets Brexit done” but all it does is to begin the next phase. 

Labour, having failed to back another referendum, claims to be fighting the election to have one afterwards, claiming it can negotiate a better deal with the EU which it will then put to the people. But it cannot say if it would support its own deal in that referendum. 

The Tories do not deserve to win a majority, and it is profoundly against the interests of the country if they win a big one. Yet that is possible because of a split opposition and Labour’s strategy. Mr Corbyn’s campaign launch speech attacking “dodgy landlords”, “billionaires” and a “corrupt system” is textbook populism. It is no more acceptable in the mouth of someone who calls themselves leftwing than in the mouth of Donald Trump’s right. 

I can take you to countries whose systems are corrupt. Ours isn’t. That is no more true than the Brexiter myth that the MPs refused to pass Brexit because they are sitting on their backsides, taking their salary and showing contempt for the British people. 

Government is about the hard challenge of analysis, policy development and delivery. It requires understanding of how the world is changing and how complex legacy systems can be adapted to technological change. This is our 21st century industrial revolution. 

Yet our politicians compete to tell us that there are simple answers: either parting ways with the EU, our largest trading partner, or removing pantomime villains of capitalism. 

Whenever an election is called, some MPs stand down. What is depressing this time is that many of those leaving clearly have much still to give, particularly those female MPs who cite the ugliness of political discourse as a reason. 

There will be many voters who distrust Mr Johnson, fear Mr Corbyn and who do not think the Liberal Democrats can form a credible government. 

Two criteria should guide their votes. One is naturally Brexit. For those whom getting a new referendum is determinative, there will be a lot of help available with tactical voting to prevent a Conservative majority. But the other factor is also important: we need to get into parliament many reasonable and capable politicians of all parties who will not spout populism. We need people who will put reasoned argument before ideology and understand that democracy is about regarding opponents as people with whom you disagree, not enemies. 

This is a moment to judge the calibre and character of individual candidates carefully. There is a core of good Labour MPs who will not be whipped into supporting policy they do not believe in. They deserve strong support even from those not inclined to vote Labour. Parliament would be worse without the Conservative independents. If this parliament has shown anything it is that independent-minded MPs can make a difference and work constructively together. We need that spirit in the new parliament. 

Achieving the right result, not only on Brexit but for that centre-ground spine, requires sophistication and care. Voters must pay attention through the campaign as public opinion evolves. 

After this election, the real battle over the future of British politics will begin.

The writer was UK prime minister from 1997 to 2007

 

[msc 18,439]

12 minutes ago, Toast said:

I couldn't read it because of the paywall, but Corbyn can't be that bad if Bliar doesn't like him.

 

 

Quote

Labour, having failed to back another referendum, claims to be fighting the election to have one afterwards, claiming it can negotiate a better deal with the EU which it will then put to the people. But it cannot say if it would support its own deal in that referendum. The Tories do not deserve to win a majority, and it is profoundly against the interests of the country if they win a big one. Yet that is possible because of a split opposition and Labour’s strategy. Mr Corbyn’s campaign launch speech attacking “dodgy landlords”, “billionaires” and a “corrupt system” is textbook populism. It is no more acceptable in the mouth of someone who calls themselves leftwing than in the mouth of Donald Trump’s right. I can take you to countries whose systems are corrupt. Ours isn’t. That is no more true than the Brexiter myth that the MPs refused to pass Brexit because they are sitting on their backsides, taking their salary and showing contempt for the British people.

 

Yup, because when you moan about your landlord, you are actually being Donald Trump.

 

Yet another public Remainer who wants their cake and eat it. Any Remain deal goes through Corbyn, like it or not.

[Deathray 2,940]

Huw Edwards is doing election night.

 

Fuck the BBC

[Redrumours 861]

31 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Huw Edwards is doing election night.

 

Fuck the BBC

I second that. FUCK THE BBC!!!!

[Deathray 2,940]

16 minutes ago, redrumours said:

I second that. FUCK THE BBC!!!!

 

To be frank it was inevitable, and I will give him a chance. Dimbleby doesn't want to do it any more (and 55 years after he first did a constituency link, who can blame him). 

 

The rest of the team isn't too bad. I can't bear the idea of watching another channel and Tom Bradbury appears to be lined up for ITV which is an even worse choice.....