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John Key

Shadow DeathList Competition 2022

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2022 Shadow DeathList Competition

 

Big note: 

Please don't challenge individual names on someones list when they post.  When a celebrity dies, this discussion can take place then. 

 

To enter: 

  • Have a list of 50 celebrities chosen by yourself, for their likelihood to die in 2022.
  • Candidates must be famous enough that their death is confidently expected to be reported by any countries media
    On the issue that someone isn't famous enough, I have no idea how to deal with that. Adding strict rules and limitations doesn't seem very cool though, because I want people to feel comfortable posting their normal Shadow DeathList. 
  • Candidates cannot be famous solely for the fact they are likely to die imminently
  • Candidates may submit their list any time from September 2021 to December of 2022 of 50 names + 5 subs. Post your list here to enter, there's no stress in posting it by January 1st if you're ultra-competitive with other Deadpools. 
  • Names on the scoreboard will only count AFTER you submit your list. If you submitted your list on the main Shadow Lists Forum or another similar forum late this may be taken into consideration. 
    (If you submit a list in February of 2022 without having had posted it elsewhere, deaths occurring in January aren't going to count)

 

Things to keep in mind about any person you choose:

  • Are they likely to obit in a major newspaper? 
  • Are they a well known celebrity? 
  • Do they have a Wikipedia page in any language (that clearly wasn't made just for Deathlisting)

You will not be asked to prove any of these when you post your list, but upon your candidates death you may need to meet some of these criteria. 

 

Scoring System:

  • One death = One Point

 

Making this early to take criticism of making this, suggestions, and to give me time to think of necessary rules.

The inspiration for creating this comes from wanting a clear place to compare how my Shadow List does to the main DeathList. Anyone else that wants this for any reason is welcome to join and post their list below at a reasonable time. 

It is a valid criticism to say that the lack of rules may affect the quality of names or the formality of this deadpool. Some people already make a Shadow DeathList and I want this to be a place where we can compare them. For 2022, at least, I won't have formal rules on names. Being reported in the newspaper and having a Wikipedia Article that isn't a stub will go a long way. 

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Scoreboard:

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Teams so far:

 

 

 

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I am going early

 

My names are either so well known or not well considered enough to be stolen so here goes

 

Thanks  @John Key for running this

 

1.       Leslie Philips

2.       Jimmy Greaves

3.       Bob Dole

4.       Abdelaziz Bouteflika

5.       Betty White

6.       Joanne Woodward

7.       James Watson

8.       Pope Benedict XVI

9.       Douglas Hurd

10.   Sidney Poitier

11.   June Spencer

12.   Desmond Tutu

13.   Bob Barker

14.   Jimmy Carter

15.   Jean Marie Le Pen

16.   Penelope Lively

17.   Ysanne Churchman

18.   Gudrun Ure

19.   Shirley Hughes

20.   James Lovelock

21.   Frank Williams (Motor Racing)

22.   Kane Tanaka

23.   Raymond Briggs

24.   Timothy Dudley-Smith

25.   Rosalynn Carter

26.   William Russell

27.   Alan Dean Foster

28.   Harry Belafonte

29.   David Attenborough

30.   Bob Newhart

31.   Ray Lawler

32.   David Graham

33.   Robert Fyfe

34.   Michael J Fox

35.   Bill Turnbull

36.   Nigel Lawson

37.   Larry Niven

38.   Vanessa Redgrave

39.   Rupert Murdoch

40.   Eileen Derbyshire

41.   Edna O’Brien

42.   A S Byatt

43.   Frank Borman

44.   Niels Olsen

45.   Alice Munro

46.   Stanley Baxter

47.   Jean Marsh

48.   Mikhail Gorbachov

49.   Cleo Laine

50.   Jiang Zemin 

 

 

Subs

 

Joan D.Vinge

Anthony Sher

Nichelle Nichols

Billy Connolly

June Brown

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Nice one, and about time, I guess.

I guess many will just drop their Shadow lists in here, but I think in a few cases it will require a little tweaking, as the picks have to be at least somewhat internationally famous, i.e. no Ruth Apilado, for example.

From my current shadow list, I might have to remove Catherine Wybourne, possibly Brendon Ormsby, maybe Michael McKevitt? Ah well, should be doable.

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30 minutes ago, gcreptile said:

Nice one, and about time, I guess.

I guess many will just drop their Shadow lists in here, but I think in a few cases it will require a little tweaking, as the picks have to be at least somewhat internationally famous, i.e. no Ruth Apilado, for example.

From my current shadow list, I might have to remove Catherine Wybourne, possibly Brendon Ormsby, maybe Michael McKevitt? Ah well, should be doable.

I would genuinely be in support for those people to be in a shadow DeathList. It's all clear that they're famous, they all have Wikipedia pages and are regionally or locally famous. 

That's something I may need to rephrase, I'm unsure how to convey that message. 

Those people aren't nobodies. 

But then I have no problem with someone like Bill Gates' Dad being on the official DeathList, so I may need to be hanged, drawn and quartered. 

 

Most of my rules were taken from the main DeathList page with just making it any country rather than just the UK. 

 

A lot of people keep a shadow DeathList and I wouldn't want people to have to think too hard or change what they would usually make just for this! 

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9 minutes ago, John Key said:

I would genuinely be in support for those people to be in a shadow DeathList. It's all clear that they're famous, they all have Wikipedia pages and are regionally or locally famous. 

That's something I may need to rephrase, I'm unsure how to convey that message. 

Those people aren't nobodies. 

But then I have no problem with someone like Bill Gates' Dad being on the official DeathList, so I may need to be hanged, drawn and quartered. 

 

Most of my rules were taken from the main DeathList page with just making it any country rather than just the UK. 

 

A lot of people keep a shadow DeathList and I wouldn't want people to have to think too hard or change what they would usually make just for this! 

 

There was an idea in Punt Pool (iirc) that the game runner essentially creates a Star Chamber of maybe five or so individuals who for borderline picks rule on their eligibility a simple 3:2 majority allows them in. Otherwise it is no QO no point which means player must make the judgement for themselves

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I'll try this:

 

1. Abdelaziz Bouteflika

2. Martti Ahtisaari

3. Henry Kissinger

4. Monica Vitti

5. Miloš Zeman

6. Leslie Phillips

7. Vesa-Matti Loiri

8. Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani

9. Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan

10. Bob Dole

11. Kitanofuji Katsuaki

12. Violeta Chamorro

13. Queen Sirikit

14. Imelda Marcos

15. Pele

16. Mengistu Haile Mariam

17. Vicente Fernandez

18. Sultan Ghalib II al-Qu'aiti

19. Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia)

20. Rabbi Eliezer Berland

21. Amadou-Mahtar M'Bow

22. Keith Richards

23. Margarita Terekhova

24. Pasqual Maragall

25. Kane Tanaka

26. Emomali Rahmon

27. Ivan Silayev

28. Mikhail Gorbachev

29. Salman of Saudi Arabia

30. Tui Atua Tupua Tamasese Efi

31. John Howard

32. Sitiveni Rabuka

33. Ati George Sokomanu

34. Benedict XVI

35. Ozzy Osbourne

36. George R. R. Martin

37. Roman Polanski

38. Yoko Ono

39. Rudy Giuliani

40. Prunella Scales

41. Aung San Suu Kyi

42. Desi Bouterse

43. Alan Brazil

44. Billy Connolly

45. Michael Dukakis

46. Jimmy Carter

47. Joseph Estrada

48. Louis Farrakhan

49. Alberto Fujimori

50. Rolf Harris

 

Subs:

Sandra Day O'Connor

Ion Iliescu

Abdul Qadeer Khan

Pervez Musharraf

Dick Van Dyke

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24 minutes ago, arghton said:

I'll try this:

 

1. Abdelaziz Bouteflika

2. Martti Ahtisaari

3. Henry Kissinger

4. Monica Vitti

5. Miloš Zeman

6. Leslie Phillips

7. Vesa-Matti Loiri

8. Hamad bin Khalifa Al Thani

9. Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan

10. Bob Dole

11. Kitanofuji Katsuaki

12. Violeta Chamorro

13. Queen Sirikit

14. Imelda Marcos

15. Pele

16. Mengistu Haile Mariam

17. Vicente Fernandez

18. Sultan Ghalib II al-Qu'aiti

19. Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia)

20. Rabbi Eliezer Berland

21. Amadou-Mahtar M'Bow

22. Keith Richards

23. Margarita Terekhova

24. Pasqual Maragall

25. Kane Tanaka

26. Emomali Rahmon

27. Ivan Silayev

28. Mikhail Gorbachev

29. Salman of Saudi Arabia

30. Tui Atua Tupua Tamasese Efi

31. John Howard

32. Sitiveni Rabuka

33. Ati George Sokomanu

34. Benedict XVI

35. Ozzy Osbourne

36. George R. R. Martin

37. Roman Polanski

38. Yoko Ono

39. Rudy Giuliani

40. Prunella Scales

41. Aung San Suu Kyi

42. Desi Bouterse

43. Alan Brazil

44. Billy Connolly

45. Michael Dukakis

46. Jimmy Carter

47. Joseph Estrada

48. Louis Farrakhan

49. Alberto Fujimori

50. Rolf Harris

 

Subs:

Sandra Day O'Connor

Ion Iliescu

Abdul Qadeer Khan

Pervez Musharraf

Dick Van Dyke


And this is why the Shadow List hasn’t ever been a competition. You get lists like this…what you think would be the reaction if fucking Mengistu Haile Mariam was on the DL? Or Sitiveni Rabuka? Or some random cunting Rabbi?

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I don't really think many people here understand what a "shadow list" is meant to really be. You're supposed to follow the same rules as the committee, but then people have random fringe fame people on their lists so idk.

 

I feel like if this pool were to work we'd need some sort of Crowdsource-esque way to gather votes on a whole lot of celebs to gauge whether they'd be viable or not. Otherwise there really is no metric for which to accept which celebs. Luckily you made this in September (for whatever reason) so there's plenty of time.

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46 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said:


And this is why the Shadow List hasn’t ever been a competition. You get lists like this…what you think would be the reaction if fucking Mengistu Haile Mariam was on the DL? Or Sitiveni Rabuka? Or some random cunting Rabbi?

Mengistu is DEFINITELY a deathlisty name. Red Terror ideator who ruled Ethiopia for two decades, one of the worst dictators of the continent, responsible for about 2000000 Ethiopian deaths. 

 

I won't resort to Dai Llewellyn or Ruby Muhammad, but DL has scored with Daniel arap Moi, Robert Mugabe, Mobutu and Hastings Banda. Mengistu is at their level of (in)fame if not even more. 

 

I repeat ignorance is not a virtue. 

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22 minutes ago, drol said:

Mengistu is DEFINITELY a deathlisty name. Red Terror ideator who ruled Ethiopia for two decades, one of the worst dictators of the continent, responsible for about 2000000 Ethiopian deaths. 

 

I won't resort to Dai Llewellyn or Ruby Muhammad, but DL has scored with Daniel arap Moi, Robert Mugabe, Mobutu and Hastings Banda. Mengistu is at their level of (in)fame if not even more. 

 

I repeat ignorance is not a virtue. 

I thought it's a fair point to make, that ShadowLists might produce names that wouldn't appear on the real deathlist. 

But the person complaining about two world leaders and a very infamous religious leader I thought I would ignore. 

54 minutes ago, Banana said:

I don't really think many people here understand what a "shadow list" is meant to really be. You're supposed to follow the same rules as the committee, but then people have random fringe fame people on their lists so idk.

 

I feel like if this pool were to work we'd need some sort of Crowdsource-esque way to gather votes on a whole lot of celebs to gauge whether they'd be viable or not. Otherwise there really is no metric for which to accept which celebs. Luckily you made this in September (for whatever reason) so there's plenty of time.

I get your idea. 

The committee is UK-centric while the world is a pretty big place. I'm open to suggestions, I quite liked the idea of borderline names being voted on if necessary. 

I'm on the fence from most of what you say. I just don't think the concept of a ShadowList should be so strict, nor did I particularly want to a big crowdsource-esque way to gather votes. 

 

 

For my own sanity I'll probably step back and let criticism of this thread or individual names go without directly responding to them, but I am open to ideas. 
This website has lots of polarising people who all hold opinions and I'm open to listening to some of them. My approach to this is very laid back right now. 

 

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1 hour ago, drol said:

Mengistu is DEFINITELY a deathlisty name. Red Terror ideator who ruled Ethiopia for two decades, one of the worst dictators of the continent, responsible for about 2000000 Ethiopian deaths. 

 

I won't resort to Dai Llewellyn or Ruby Muhammad, but DL has scored with Daniel arap Moi, Robert Mugabe, Mobutu and Hastings Banda. Mengistu is at their level of (in)fame if not even more. 

 

I repeat ignorance is not a virtue. 


Totally subjective. Which is why it doesn’t work.

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I think there is a real difference between FFBI and people you (generic being) haven't heard of. There are a small number of us on here who know more than is considered reasonable about a certain UK SF show and we get caught out when people like David Fisher, Philip Latham & Jane Baker do not get QOs. I know nothing about baseball or wrestling so you are unlikely to see those types of names on my lists but they clearly have fame credentials which are outside my frame of reference 

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13 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

I think there is a real difference between FFBI and people you (generic being) haven't heard of. There are a small number of us on here who know more than is considered reasonable about a certain UK SF show and we get caught out when people like David Fisher, Philip Latham & Jane Baker do not get QOs. I know nothing about baseball or wrestling so you are unlikely to see those types of names on my lists but they clearly have fame credentials which are outside my frame of reference 

 

Although the wrestling QO thing is still relatively new - Nick Bockwinkel (a HOFer, fyi) died in 2015 without a single QO, which scared me off Blackjack Mulligan and Smith Hart, both of whom got obits with nae bother.

 

Found out this week that Marc Wilkinson is apparently still with us. Not a name that would jump out at most but I like to think going "oh the Blue Remembered Hills/If... composer" immediately marks him as notable, if not household! Whereas if a week goes by without you or Willz or Toast or drol or Spade or any number of others interested in stuff outside my sphere bring up someone clearly notable but previously unknown to me, then that's a wasted DL week imo. Or even within my sphere of interest, after all, nobody knows every actor or writer in the world. 

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I agree with drol about Mengistu but otherwise TQR is right, there are 19 people on Arghton's list I've never heard of (most of the Asian/Eastern-sounding ones) who would surely not make the DL on fame grounds.

Or maybe I'm just ignorant :-)

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14 minutes ago, Great Uncle Bulgaria said:

I agree with drol about Mengistu but otherwise TQR is right, there are 19 people on Arghton's list I've never heard of (most of the Asian/Eastern-sounding ones) who would surely not make the DL on fame grounds.

Or maybe I'm just ignorant :-)

 

I think it turns on whether the list is to be directly comparable to the DL, which tends to be UK centric. 

In which case one would need to ask oneself "Would the committee be likely to consider this person?"

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I think, some higher standard of fame should be used. Otherwise, well, there's already the Death By Numbers.

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I just added this to the first post:

It is a valid criticism to say that the lack of rules may affect the quality of names or the formality of this deadpool. Some people already make a Shadow DeathList and I want this to be a place where we can compare them. For 2022, at least, I won't have formal rules on names. Being reported in the newspaper and having a Wikipedia Article that isn't a stub will go a long way. 

 

8 hours ago, gcreptile said:

I think, some higher standard of fame should be used. Otherwise, well, there's already the Death By Numbers.

Could you suggest a higher level of fame criteria I could use that wouldn't be too strict? I think the balance here could just be Bibliography's reference to the Punt Pool of some kind of council of 5 voting on borderline names with "a simple 3:2 majority allows them in".

 

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On 16/09/2021 at 23:37, John Key said:

Could you suggest a higher level of fame criteria I could use that wouldn't be too strict? I think the balance here could just be Bibliography's reference to the Punt Pool of some kind of council of 5 voting on borderline names with "a simple 3:2 majority allows them in".

Maybe having a wikipedia page in at least 5 languages? Exceptions maybe for British people - who only need and english one, but with a minimum number of words.

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I would just suggest someone getting a certain amount of obits and maybe requiring like a BBC one

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8 hours ago, Banana said:

I would just suggest someone getting a certain amount of obits and maybe requiring like a BBC one

That doesn't really help at the selection stage

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1 hour ago, Bibliogryphon said:

That doesn't really help at the selection stage

 

It does if people keep this in mind and don't pick people who won't meet this criteria.

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Things to keep in mind about any person you choose:

  • Are they likely to obit in a major newspaper? 
  • Are they a well known celebrity? 
  • Do they have a Wikipedia page in any language (that clearly wasn't made just for Deathlisting)

You will not be asked to prove any of these when you post your link, but upon your candidates death you may need to meet some of these criteria. 

 

@Banana, @gcreptile

thanks for those suggestions. I think they're good criteria to keep in mind. I don't want peoples Shadow DeathLists to be challenged as they post here as has happened, but for when someone dies to score a point they should be taken into consideration. 

 

I feel mixed. I could flip the switch and have clear, stricter criteria. 

But ShadowList's should be fun and relaxed. People probably already have a ShadowList of 50 celebs, I would like them to just use that. 

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