in eternum+ 22 Posted June 17, 2006 more than one person seems to be under the impression that the globally well-known Claude Levi-Strauss is Belgian, when he's really French. As a result of a crashed computer, I missed most of this lively debate, which seems to have been more exciting than most of the World Cup matches thus far. And of course, I would never argue with a Mod . I shall therefore simply make these two points: Point the First: How do you know CLS does not have dual citizenship between France and Belgium, thus making him Belgian? Point the Second: Everyone in my office has heard of CLS. Furthermore, after reading your post above I asked both my sister and brother-in-law if they'd heard of him. Not only had they both heard of him, but my sister has read some of his work. They had not, however, ever heard of Brooke Astor. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pulphack 6 Posted June 18, 2006 i had heard of claude levi strauss, and i only read the sun and hello... no, seriously, anyone whos' done any work in the media, or as a teahcer, has heard of him, like they have have roland barthes. even if you DON'T want to hear about them, you have. he's famous and belgian - get over it and leave poor ie alone! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pulphack 6 Posted June 18, 2006 i had heard of claude levi strauss, and i only read the sun and hello... no, seriously, anyone whos' done any work in the media, or as a teacher, has heard of him, like they have have roland barthes. even if you DON'T want to hear about them, you have. he's famous and belgian - get over it and leave poor ie alone! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pulphack 6 Posted June 18, 2006 er, why has this appeared twice after the board told me that it was flooded and couldn't post anything? technology, eh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy Ronnie 78 Posted June 18, 2006 ok, seems I underestimated the fame of Claude Levi-Strauss and some of the Belgians. Every article I found about CL-S says he was born in Brussels but to French parents, no mention of dual citizenship. The question becomes, therefore, have we ever had a Belgian on the DL? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Grendel 139 Posted June 18, 2006 I am ashamed to admit I had never heard of C L-S until I read about him on here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in eternum+ 22 Posted June 18, 2006 ok, seems I underestimated the fame of Claude Levi-Strauss and some of the Belgians. Every article I found about CL-S says he was born in Brussels but to French parents, no mention of dual citizenship. The question becomes, therefore, have we ever had a Belgian on the DL? Okay, this I'm willing to concede. I personally have no evidence that he has dual citizenship; I also have no idea how lenient the French/Belgians are (were) about allowing dual citizenship between the two countries. I just assumed that since he was born there, he would automatically have Belgian citizenship. Case in point: I have friends - both Canadians - whose son was born in the US. The son can have US citizenship, even though his parents can't/don't. Ae there any Belgians out there who can advise on their country's citizenship allowances? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magere Hein 1,400 Posted June 18, 2006 Ae there any Belgians out there who can advise on their country's citizenship allowances? I'm not a Belgian, but I just had a look into it. Being born in Belgium from foreign parents doesn't automatically result in Belgian citizenship. There are conditions in which such a person can, through a simple administrative procedure, acquire it. Among those conditions are having lived in Belgium for a considerable time and being a legal alien. All gory details can be found on Wikipedia, if you're willing to believe that site. regards, Hein Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slave to the Grave 26 Posted June 18, 2006 Ae there any Belgians out there who can advise on their country's citizenship allowances? I'm not a Belgian, but I just had a look into it. Being born in Belgium from foreign parents doesn't automatically result in Belgian citizenship. There are conditions in which such a person can, through a simple administrative procedure, acquire it. Among those conditions are having lived in Belgium for a considerable time and being a legal alien. All gory details can be found on Wikipedia, if you're willing to believe that site. regards, Hein The popular French singer Johnny Hallyday recently applied for Belgian citizenship. He had assumed that he had dual nationality as he has a Belgian father, however, it transpired that his Belgian citizenship never existed as his father was married to someone other than his mother when he was born. It looks like he's going to be turned down as he hasn't lived in Belgium for the requisite 3 years. Full story here if you can be arsed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
in eternum+ 22 Posted June 18, 2006 I'm not a Belgian, but I just had a look into it. Being born in Belgium from foreign parents doesn't automatically result in Belgian citizenship. There are conditions in which such a person can, through a simple administrative procedure, acquire it. Among those conditions are having lived in Belgium for a considerable time and being a legal alien. All gory details can be found on Wikipedia, if you're willing to believe that site. regards, Hein Ta much, Hein! Wiki's credibility aside, this doesn't really get us much farther in the debate, as I suppose CLS's Belginity is still possible or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Banshees Scream 110 Posted June 18, 2006 I'm not a Belgian, but I just had a look into it. Being born in Belgium from foreign parents doesn't automatically result in Belgian citizenship. There are conditions in which such a person can, through a simple administrative procedure, acquire it. Among those conditions are having lived in Belgium for a considerable time and being a legal alien. All gory details can be found on Wikipedia, if you're willing to believe that site. regards, Hein Ta much, Hein! Wiki's credibility aside, this doesn't really get us much farther in the debate, as I suppose CLS's Belginity is still possible or not. To end a debate such as this you would need to meet Claude Levi Strauss and ask him yourself? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PCO Posted June 19, 2006 Not one noteworthy author, scientist, or pop singer. Certainly no military figures. Van Damme is the only actor (using the term generously). For the Audrey Hepburn brigade she was just born there, to Anglo-Irish and Dutch parents. A fictional character makes the top ten. Basically, a few minor sports stars and the odd artist is all Belgium has to show for itself from about 1,000 years of history. No military figures? Charles Martel who defeated the Arabs at Poitiers was born in Belgium, just like his grandson Charlemagne who conquered the part of Western and Central Europe which wasn't conquered by his ancestors yet. And then there was Godfroid of Bouillon, who became King of Jerusalem after the First Crusade. Or emperor Charles the fifth, born in Ghent in 1500, who defeated the French and the Turks a few times. Not one noteworthy scientist? How about Georges Lemaitre, who developed the Big Bang theory, about which Einstein said: "This is the most beautiful and satisfactory explanation of creation to which I have ever listened". Or what about Gerard Mercator, the founder of modern cartography, or Andreas Vesalius, the founder of modern human anatomy. Or the chemist and industrialist Ernest Solvay, Leo Baekeland, Alphonse Quetelet, the 'inventor' of statistics or Peter Piot, discoverer of the Ebola-virus and leader of UNAIDS, just to name a few. The odd artist? With Jan Van Eyck, Memling, Van der Weyden, Matsys, the family Brueghel (Pieter and his sons and grandsons), Teniers, Jordaens, Rubens, Van Dijck, Ensor, Meunier, Permeke, Magritte, Panamarenko, Luc Tuymans, Pierre Alechinsky (the three last ones are stil living) Belgium produced a lot more world famous painters than the whole of the UK in it's entire history. Authors: the best-selling detective author Simenon, the Nobel-prize winner Maeterlinck... and then there are the comic-strip authors: Peyo, Hergé, Morris, Franquin, just to name a few. It's not because your horizon limits itself to Jean Claude Van Damme and a few tennis players, that there isn't more than that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy Ronnie 78 Posted June 19, 2006 There were apparently three King Leopolds but because I doubt anyone can tell me one distinguishing fact amongst the three just the first one makes the list and quite low down. Not one pop singer. Certainly no military figures. Basically, a few minor sports stars. and the odd artist is all Belgium has to show for itself from about 1,000 years of history. Cowboy Ronnie, I would hardly call Merckx, Ickx or Clijsters minor. Toots Thielemans has a had a best selling "pop" single, "Midnight Cowboy". I am flabbergasted you've not even heard of the most famous of the King Leopold's. (this is with no research on wiki etc.) King Leopold was the man who was one of the chief protagonists in "the Scramble for Africa" colonisation period between 1870-1920. The man wanted to own the whole of Africa, or as much as he could. He sponsored Stanley for numerous expiditions and eventually Stanley came up trumps, and took one of Africa's jewels, the Congo (later renamed Belgian Congo), plus a few other smaller terrorities. But his bloodythirsty greed backfired. Due to human rights abuses & gross mis-finance, his legacy was tarnished. He ran Belgium well, but that's not difficult. He f**ked up Congo big-time, and didn't help development elsewhere. Even when he was long dead, his name & memory was enough to cause problems. When Patrice Lumbumba, the first independent Congolese President (later assisinated by the CIA), made his first speech, the Belgians were expecting a "thanks for all you work blah blah" speech. Not a jot of it. Lumbumba savaged Belgian incomptence & lambasted Leopold as a "tyrant, meglomanic idiot" etc. He was 100% spot on. For some reason King Baudoin, Leopold's grandson, who was at the ceremony didn't agree Well, CR, what more do you want to know? As for the other two Leopolds, they were crap & not worthy of mention. well, I looked into it and while Toots Thielemans did contribute some harmonica playing to the soundtrack of Midnight Cowboy, he had nothing to do with the one hit song from the film, "Everybody's Talking", nor is he mentioned amongst the musicians listed in the Wikipedia article about the film. I know to some people quoting from Wiki is like reciting a witch's curse, but it's actually a pretty informative, largely accurate source of information, about as reliable as anything else on the net. But thanks O3 for the info about Leopold etc., very informative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magere Hein 1,400 Posted June 19, 2006 It's not because your horizon limits itself to Jean Claude Van Damme and a few tennis players, that there isn't more than that. Unfortunately most of the people you mention are not only eminent figures in their fields, they're also dead. Including them on our list is not against the Unwritten Rules, but they're unlikely candidates. The living ones may also be of little value, as if indeed they die the need an obit in UK media to count as a hit. The only living person you mention that I recognise is Panamarenko. There's little reason to assume he'll shed his mortal coil anytime soon. Don't worry too much, I don't expect any Dutch to join the list in the next few years either. regards, Hein Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,639 Posted June 19, 2006 Several of the current Belgian list would make a UK media obit, Jacky Ickx for sure, runner up in the F1 championship 1969 and 1970 and a Le Mans winner. Since I'm curtailing my thread starting for a week or two can I ask a different question here. If we take out the current health of all famous people and remind ourselves that anyone can be diagnosed with a terminal illness at any time. How many nations on earth would - at present - not be able to muster a single person famous enough to qualify for the DL? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handrejka 1,903 Posted June 19, 2006 Several of the current Belgian list would make a UK media obit, Jacky Ickx for sure, runner up in the F1 championship 1969 and 1970 and a Le Mans winner. Since I'm curtailing my thread starting for a week or two can I ask a different question here. If we take out the current health of all famous people and remind ourselves that anyone can be diagnosed with a terminal illness at any time. How many nations on earth would - at present - not be able to muster a single person famous enough to qualify for the DL? I'm struggling to think of any famous Faroese or Greenlandic folk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,639 Posted June 19, 2006 In terms of nations in mainland Europe, I think Andorra might be struggling although the other minnow states with royal families - like Luxembourg - are probably okay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Octopus of Odstock 2,186 Posted June 19, 2006 I'm struggling to think of any famous Faroese folk Jens-Martin Knudsen, aka the "Bobble hatted keeper", is a cult hero in football, and might sneak an obit, during a quiet sporting news week. But he's not likely to die for some time. JMK Heroics Aforementioned bobble hat on Knudsen's head: Can't think of any others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy Ronnie 78 Posted June 19, 2006 Several of the current Belgian list would make a UK media obit, Jacky Ickx for sure, runner up in the F1 championship 1969 and 1970 and a Le Mans winner. Since I'm curtailing my thread starting for a week or two can I ask a different question here. If we take out the current health of all famous people and remind ourselves that anyone can be diagnosed with a terminal illness at any time. How many nations on earth would - at present - not be able to muster a single person famous enough to qualify for the DL? I'm struggling to think of any famous Faroese or Greenlandic folk Interesting question MPFC, and please don't feel the need to stop thread starting - it's generally a good thing on the DL. Depends on how you look at it. If it's which country has no people whose death would merit a UK media article/obit, the answer would be very few. If the leader of just about any country, Greenland and the Faroes included, was to die I imagine it would receive UK press coverage. If, as it sounds, the question is how many countries have so few famous people likely to die that no one from that nation would receive serious DL committee consideration, it's probably more like 100 or so. Andorra, Bahamas, Belize, Benin, Botswana, Burundi, etc. And Belgium. Never Belgium. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Octopus of Odstock 2,186 Posted June 19, 2006 The other countries that might have trouble;- (please correct me if I'm wrong - I'd be genuinally interested to see where one some names might come from. If I can think of a famous person, normally a ruler, I haven't included them below. Andorra Bangladesh Barbados Benin Bhutan Burkina Faso Burundi Cape Verde Central African Republic Comoros Djibouti Dominica East Timor Guinea-Bissau Guyana Honduras Kiribati Kyrzgystan Madagascar Malawi Maldives Marshall Islands Mauritania Micronesia Moldova Mongolia Mozambique Nauru Niger Palau St. Kitts & Nevis St. Lucia St. Vincent & the Grenadines Sao Tome & Principe Slovakia Somalia Tajikstan Turkmenistan Tuvalu Vanuatu Western Sahara Islands/Colonies/Terrorities: Norfolk Island & the other 5 Australian isles Aruba Netherland Antilles Most of the 16 French Islands/Colonies Cook Islands, Niue & Tokelau Svarbard Anguilla British Virgin Isles Cayman Isles Montserrat Pitcairn Isles Turks & Caicos Isles American Samoa Guam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handrejka 1,903 Posted June 19, 2006 I like this new topic. How about San Marino? Or would the ruler get an obit as it is the oldest republic in the world. And isn't David Bowie's wife from Somalia or am I getting mixed up. Oh and I'm really embarrassed to know this but Maisie William's from Boney M was born in Montserrat (dies from shame) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sympathyforthedevil 11 Posted June 19, 2006 The other countries that might have trouble;- (please correct me if I'm wrong - I'd be genuinally interested to see where one some names might come from. If I can think of a famous person, normally a ruler, I haven't included them below. East Timor Xanana Gusmao ? (dunno how many people have heard of him though) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Octopus of Odstock 2,186 Posted June 19, 2006 I like this new topic. How about San Marino? Or would the ruler get an obit as it is the oldest republic in the world. David Gualtieri will. The man who, by scoring against England in 1993, marked the lowest point in England's footballing history. Aside from that, it remains, the quickest goal ever scored in a World Cup game, finals or qualifying. Also, they have some old noble families there, and one of them might make it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy Ronnie 78 Posted June 19, 2006 I like this new topic. How about San Marino? Or would the ruler get an obit as it is the oldest republic in the world. And isn't David Bowie's wife from Somalia or am I getting mixed up. Oh and I'm really embarrassed to know this but Maisie William's from Boney M was born in Montserrat (dies from shmae) David Bowie's wife Iman is indeed Somalian. An argument could be made that due to the current political instability the Somali President or PM could be a DL candidate. But as I can't name either I'd go along with Treble O's list of fameless nations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handrejka 1,903 Posted June 19, 2006 Oh and Bobby Farrell (also of Boney M fame) is from Aruba 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
