Dead Kurt Waldheim

[Cowboy Ronnie 78]

Reading this has reminded me. When I was a kid I read a lot of books about a German penal regiment on the Eastern front by a Danish author called Sven Hassel who was really popular until people began to cast doubt on the authenticity of his work. He's still alive, now 88, and living in Spain. There's loads of stuff about him on the net. Could be one to watch.

too much hassel.....

[Guest Guest]

Sven, how can you call an Austrian who served in the SS, then hid his past, and made it to the top based partly on these lies and obsification of the truth anything but a sweinhund. fact is he is still alive but for how long ... King

Most definitely it was not particularly clever of Waldheim to say nothing about his military service when talking about his past. I guess this is evident to everybody.

BUT: King, how can you equate a man who served in the Wehrmacht with a member of the SS? This would turn all of the soliders that served in the Wehrmacht - a whole generation actually - into criminals.

[Brinsworth House Baiter 12]

Reading this has reminded me. When I was a kid I read a lot of books about a German penal regiment on the Eastern front by a Danish author called Sven Hassel who was really popular until people began to cast doubt on the authenticity of his work. He's still alive, now 88, and living in Spain. There's loads of stuff about him on the net. Could be one to watch.

too much hassel.....

Well done, sir.

[Guest Guest]

Sven, how can you call an Austrian who served in the SS, then hid his past, and made it to the top based partly on these lies and obsification of the truth anything but a sweinhund. fact is he is still alive but for how long ... King

Hombre, you dont know anything about history. At the end of World War II nearly every Austrian had become an SS member. Study history, then judge. Try to learn the difference between SS and Waffen-SS.

Because I'm going to listen to a clown who sells burgers.

I ought to sue your ass for clogging my arteries and generally making me fat.

 

Back to the point, I disagree.

All SS were basically the same. Unless you wish to tell us of the difference.

Oh my goodness! So at the end of the war every Austrian was a member of the SS!!

Fortunately, this was not the case.

 

Have a look at what wikipedia-has to say:

 

SS is short for Schutzstaffel ("defense squadron"). It was a large paramilitary organization that was a principal component of the Nazi party [my comment: about 800.00 members in 1944 - far too many, no doubt ] The Nazis regarded the SS as an elite unit, the Party's "praetorian guard", with all SS personnel selected on racial and ideological grounds. The SS was distinguished from the German military, Nazi Party, and German state officials by their own SS ranks, SS unit insignia, and SS uniforms. The SS played a key role in The Holocaust: SS Einsatzgruppen units massacred over one million civilians, mostly Jews, in mass shootings; SS leader Heinrich Himmler was one of the chief architects of the Final Solution; and SS units rounded up Jews and ran the concentration camps and extermination camps in which millions of Jews, Poles, and Roma were killed.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS

[Godot 149]

Sven, how can you call an Austrian who served in the SS, then hid his past, and made it to the top based partly on these lies and obsification of the truth anything but a sweinhund. fact is he is still alive but for how long ... King

Hombre, you dont know anything about history. At the end of World War II nearly every Austrian had become an SS member. Study history, then judge. Try to learn the difference between SS and Waffen-SS.

Because I'm going to listen to a clown who sells burgers.

I ought to sue your ass for clogging my arteries and generally making me fat.

 

Back to the point, I disagree.

All SS were basically the same. Unless you wish to tell us of the difference.

Oh my goodness! So at the end of the war every Austrian was a member of the SS!!

Fortunately, this was not the case.

 

Have a look at what wikipedia-has to say:

 

SS is short for Schutzstaffel ("defense squadron"). It was a large paramilitary organization that was a principal component of the Nazi party [my comment: about 800.00 members in 1944 - far too many, no doubt ] The Nazis regarded the SS as an elite unit, the Party's "praetorian guard", with all SS personnel selected on racial and ideological grounds. The SS was distinguished from the German military, Nazi Party, and German state officials by their own SS ranks, SS unit insignia, and SS uniforms. The SS played a key role in The Holocaust: SS Einsatzgruppen units massacred over one million civilians, mostly Jews, in mass shootings; SS leader Heinrich Himmler was one of the chief architects of the Final Solution; and SS units rounded up Jews and ran the concentration camps and extermination camps in which millions of Jews, Poles, and Roma were killed.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS

I suppose they were all in the resistance then.

[Tuber Mirum 125]

I can see this is becoming yet another "we didn't say what you're saying we said, and by the way, Waldheim was a Nazi" exchanges just like the last one and the one before.

 

Can somebody point me to the place where a Deathlister said that all Austrians were in the SS, cos I'm danged if I can find it.

[in eternum+ 22]

I can see this is becoming yet another "we didn't say what you're saying we said, and by the way, Waldheim was a Nazi" exchanges just like the last one and the one before.

 

Can somebody point me to the place where a Deathlister said that all Austrians were in the SS, cos I'm danged if I can find it.

Was this what you were looking for?

[Tuber Mirum 125]

I can see this is becoming yet another "we didn't say what you're saying we said,  and by the way, Waldheim was a Nazi" exchanges just like the last one and the one before.

 

Can somebody point me to the place where a Deathlister said that all Austrians were in the SS, cos I'm danged if I can find it.

Was this what you were looking for?

I wasn't aware that Mr. McDonald was one of us. Anyway, he is talking stuff and nonsense.

[in eternum+ 22]

I can see this is becoming yet another "we didn't say what you're saying we said,  and by the way, Waldheim was a Nazi" exchanges just like the last one and the one before.

 

Can somebody point me to the place where a Deathlister said that all Austrians were in the SS, cos I'm danged if I can find it.

Was this what you were looking for?

I wasn't aware that Mr. McDonald was one of us. Anyway, he is talking stuff and nonsense.

Sorry

[Tempus Fugit 214]

I can see this is becoming yet another "we didn't say what you're saying we said,  and by the way, Waldheim was a Nazi" exchanges just like the last one and the one before.

 

Can somebody point me to the place where a Deathlister said that all Austrians were in the SS, cos I'm danged if I can find it.

Was this what you were looking for?

I wasn't aware that Mr. McDonald was one of us. Anyway, he is talking stuff and nonsense.

Mr McDonald is definitely not one of us,

 

he's one of them.

 

But one of them, can so easily become one of us.

 

Frightening really.

[Guest Guest]

I can see this is becoming yet another "we didn't say what you're saying we said, and by the way, Waldheim was a Nazi" exchanges just like the last one and the one before.

 

Can somebody point me to the place where a Deathlister said that all Austrians were in the SS, cos I'm danged if I can find it.

Have a look at Ronald Mc Donald´s comment "At the end of World War II nearly every Austrian had become an SS member."

[Guest Guest]

I can see this is becoming yet another "we didn't say what you're saying we said,  and by the way, Waldheim was a Nazi" exchanges just like the last one and the one before.

 

Can somebody point me to the place where a Deathlister said that all Austrians were in the SS, cos I'm danged if I can find it.

Have a look at Ronald Mc Donald´s comment "At the end of World War II nearly every Austrian had become an SS member."

It's going to be a long night

[Star Crossed 33]

It's going to be a long night

Sunset at 16.21 (UK)

Sunrise at 08:23 (UK)

 

Tonight's duration, therefore, will be around 16 hours and 2 minutes. Our guest was spot-on!

[Godot 149]

That was me, found I wasn't logged in for some reason. It hasn't finished yet then.

[Canadian Paul 97]

That was me, found I wasn't logged in for some reason. It hasn't finished yet then.

Drinking on the forums Godot? I thought that was Mr. Brimley's job

[Guest Guest]

Yeah, there ain't much difference between the German Stasi and the current administration of the USA...

 

I'm just reading James Risens' "State of War"!

 

For all those wise people here, I'd like to give you some facts about your favorite villain, Kurt Waldheim:

 

1.) Kurt Waldheim's membership in the SA: Waldheim was a horse-aficionado and BEFORE the Anschluss he was a member of an equestrian school. When Hitler took over, ALL memberships were incorporated in various SA or SS clubs. There is a huge difference, if somebody jumps ship on his own term or he literally got FORCED to do so! Waldheim had no choice in my book! Playing tough guy with the Hitler administration would have meant game over!

 

2.) Waldheims feelings about the ANSCHLUSS: he and his family were totally against it. Come to mind, that he and his father got beaten up several terms by Nazi-supporters. If you all had learned a little more in history, not your "just your average guy lesson", you wise people would have noticed, that Waldheim's father LOST his job due to his anti-nazi attitude! Waldheim had difficulties while studying, because the Nazis simply didn't trust him.

 

3.) Some or all of you, who love to bash the old man simply don't or won't understand, that the whole Waldheim-affair was initiated by several members of the Austrian socialist party. The "inner circle" of those people consisted of Alfred Sinowatz, Karl Blecha, Gerhard Zeiler, Hans Pusch, Dr. Heinz Fischer and others. They formed a devious alliance with several members of the WJC, namely Eli Rosenbaum, Israel Singer and also various reporters around the world.

 

4.) Why did they start this dirty plot on Waldheim? Plain and simple: to avoid a socialist loss at the presidential election for the first time ever! They knew, that Waldheim's opponent Dr. Kurt Steyrer (was health minister at that point of time) would not stand a chance. With Waldheim's UN-experience, Steyrer was an easy victim. Waldheim would have crushed him from the get-go! The easiest way to recover from certain defeat is to bad mouth your opponent!

 

5.) The Jewish goup: it was interesting to see at that point of time, that Eli Rosenbaum was out for blood. There is one thing you could say about the Jews: the couldn't work together. Classic verbal boouts featured Rosenbaum vs. Wiesenthal (may he rest in peace!) Everybody knows, that Simon Wiesenthal was a veteran Nazi-hunter, and even he couldn't finde any evidence, that Waldheim was a marauding Nazi!

 

6.) Interesting sidenote: several members of the socialist party faced trial when all those false allegations were uncovered. If you have followed the Waldheim-case you certainly have read Rosenbaum's piece of trash called "Betrayal"! At one point, Rosenbaum referred to a guy named "Karl Schuller", who pledged absolute anonymity, because he feared, that his dirty tricks would have been unravelled and would therefore cost him his job! There are many people, who say, that this man is our current president in Austria.

 

I just give you those 6 points, think about it an if you want to know more; I'll drop by and answer your questions. Just leave Waldheim alone! If you think, that the Austrians deny their past, then better think again? Who pays the most for reparations, huh?

 

Waldheim never got the credit, he deserved. The press found him guilty in every point, the people attacked him for no reason and yes, Waldheim was THE man who got personified as the ultimate villain of a country, where a Nazi must be hidden in every cupboard. That's the sad thing: they needed a man, who had to carry the burden for a whole generation!

 

Always remember: when you point a finger on somebody, there are at least two fingers, which point at you!

[Tuber Mirum 125]

Quite an interesting article.

 

It seems to me, Waldheim would have been doing Austria and himself a favour if he had stayed out of politics.

 

Sorry Mr. Guest, but the man is decidedly fishy. At best.

[Guest Guest]

You don't get it, huh? Talking about biased reporting here... All those people mentioned here, are declared left-wing cronies. Profil, Standard and Presse are left-wing steered papers.

 

Those are/were part of the conspiracy, my friend!

 

And yes, the CIA... How credible is this organization? Reading the books from Mr. Robert Baer changed my mind. And what about those CIA-prisons in Eastern Europe, huh? The way the world is seeing it, people who got hand-picked by the CIA are getting punished there...

 

After all the S**t, the CIA has caused, it is a crook organization in my book. Not reliable and dangerous.

[Guest Zieg Heil]

You don't get it, huh? Talking about biased reporting here... All those people mentioned here, are declared left-wing cronies. Profil, Standard and Presse are left-wing steered papers.

 

Those are/were part of the conspiracy, my friend!

 

And yes, the CIA... How credible is this organization? Reading the books from Mr. Robert Baer changed my mind. And what about those CIA-prisons in Eastern Europe, huh? The way the world is seeing it, people who got hand-picked by the CIA are getting punished there...

 

After all the S**t, the CIA has caused, it is a crook organization in my book. Not reliable and dangerous.

Hey don't you bad mouth the CIA buddy, Waldheim was a Nazi scumbag.

He re-invented himself and lied about his military service, the motherfucker got what he deserved.

 

No that's not true he really deserves a bullet in the head.

 

Nazi F**k.

[Tempus Fugit 214]

You don't get it, huh? Talking about biased reporting here... All those people mentioned here, are declared left-wing cronies. Profil, Standard and Presse are left-wing steered papers.

 

Those are/were part of the conspiracy, my friend!

 

And yes, the CIA... How credible is this organization? Reading the books from Mr. Robert Baer changed my mind. And what about those CIA-prisons in Eastern Europe, huh? The way the world is seeing it, people who got hand-picked by the CIA are getting punished there...

 

After all the S**t, the CIA has caused, it is a crook organization in my book. Not reliable and dangerous.

Those wicked Socialists framing poor Kurt,

 

The way they forced him to join the SS and participate in the transportation of slave labour in the Balkans is shocking.

[Windsor 2,233]

You don't get it, huh? Talking about biased reporting here... All those people mentioned here, are declared left-wing cronies. Profil, Standard and Presse are left-wing steered papers.

 

Those are/were part of the conspiracy, my friend!

 

And yes, the CIA... How credible is this organization? Reading the books from Mr. Robert Baer changed my mind. And what about those CIA-prisons in Eastern Europe, huh? The way the world is seeing it, people who got hand-picked by the CIA are getting punished there...

 

After all the S**t, the CIA has caused, it is a crook organization in my book. Not reliable and dangerous.

Hey don't you bad mouth the CIA buddy, Waldheim was a Nazi scumbag.

He re-invented himself and lied about his military service, the motherfucker got what he deserved.

 

No that's not true he really deserves a bullet in the head.

 

Nazi F**k.

Nazi or no Nazi, I don't think that he deserves a bullet in his head (even though deathlist would benefit from that). Although he may have been involved with the Nazis that was over 60 years ago.

And again, whats so wrong about joining the Nazis in order to protect yourself?

In my opinion there is too much Nazi bashing without taking into acount that the top Nazis run a brutal regime of terror. If you joined them, you would prosper and if you opposed them you would die.

 

Put in their situation I know what I would have done.

 

(I'm not saying I agree with Nazism).

[Guest Guest]

@Windsor:

 

At least ONE person, who's capable of seeing the things how they really went down. Thanks!

 

@Zieg Heil:

 

Hey moron, that's "Sieg", not "Zieg"! I think you must be a real "gung-ho" aficionado, huh? First shoot, then ask. I pity you fool, what a lousy human-being.

 

But let me tell you this buddy: there are a lot of pro-Nazi people in the USA, the way I see it, Americans are eager to get "Reichsflaggen" on Ebay.

 

Ol' Adolf has a huge following there, but yeah, bashing other people is the great US-standard.

 

What Adolf was to us, drunky Bush is for you. The initiator of WW III! It will become reality bro, it's only a matter of time.

 

The way I see it, the USA has put it's finger in many conflicts since WW II and has always emerged as the big loser.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against the people of the USA, but there's plenty of talk about your current administration.

 

Like I said earlier: When you point a finger in somebodies face, there are at least two fingers, that point at you!

 

And to wish Dr. Kurt Waldheim a bullet to his head, well... You're a sick individual, no common sense.

[Tuber Mirum 125]

Seems to me some folks are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, and some aren't. We don't really know, but I personally would trust him only slightly more than GW Bush. He may not have perpetrated any atrocities, but he can't have been far away, and the smell of it is in his clothes. Those socialists may be socialists, whom Mr. guest, as a good Austrian, obviously despises, but that doesn't exclude them from having a good point once in a while.

He doesn't need a bullet in the head, but he should simply have had the decency to stay out of politics, because with his history, and the allegations it was possible to make against him, he has done a lot of damage to Austria's reputation. I see Austria is very sensibly turning it's back on Schwarzenegger, whilst Arnie is going round saying he thinks Waldheim is a great guy "and it doesn't bother me that he was a Nazi".

 

If some Austrians would just admit to being guilty once in a while instead of giving long winded and unconvincing arguments to the contrary, we could forget about it and just get on with things. But it's not in their nature, seemingly.

[Guest Guest]

@Notapotato:

 

ah, admit being guilty? What's your point? How can a man admit his "guilt" when he was cleared by a commission of historians?

 

That's the point: why should people admit guilt at any cost, so that those bad-mouthers would back off?

 

As long there's nothing wrong, there simply isn't anything to admit!

 

The socialists: hey, nothing wrong with them. They have a huge amount of supporters here in Austria. The reason, why I despise them "as a good Austrian" is simple:

 

The socialists turned their backs one to many times on the country, that pays their money: Austria and the Austrian population.

 

They single handedly BETRAYED the whole nation, when Viktor Klima lost the race as chancellor to Wolfgang Schüssel. I still have not forgotten the "embargo" the European Union has dictated over Austria, 'cause the losing socialists came crying to them.

 

The socialists were and still are a group of individuals who are lusting after might. Might is the only thing that moves them, and they have never eased up and changed their ways for a better political climate here in Austria.

 

That's the way many people see it! You don't turn your back on your country and bad mouth it abroad, you don't stab somebody in the back!

 

There is one thing, Austria is lacking - something America is very good at: "PATRIOTISM"!

 

And the socialists lack it the most, there are a lot of things that come to mind:

 

- Waldheim (he's conservative, that automatically makes you a socialist opponent)

- Lucona Affaire (Udo Proksch and "Club 45")

- Noricum Affaire (illegal arm deal with Iran back in the 80's)

- Corruption in the Austrian Industry (VOEST fiasco, Gerngross debacle)

- Zwentendorf

- EU embargo

 

You don't live in Austria, I assume, so you know nothing about the way, politics were made at the time.

 

"As a good Austrian" I have not forgotten the socialists way... We all have not forgotten, how they all abandoned us, many left the country for big pay-offs (Klima is the current Volkswagen Boss in Argentina) and pissed on this great country.

 

Just call 'em traitors...

 

As for Kurt Waldheim: why shouln't he have entered politics? 'Cause America did not like it. Let me put it this way: it's none of your business! And that's the biggest problem the world has with the USA: they ALWAYS take their order for granted, that's why the South American countries turn their backs on them.

 

The USA should watch their own backyard, there is enough dirt there that has to be carried away!

[Star Crossed 33]

I'm willing to bet that Oscar Niemeyer and the words to Carmina Burana could sort out some of this confusion.