Vladimir Putin

[DevonDeathTrip 2,358]

Could the unmoveable object that is Vladimir Putin be about to meet the irresistible force of a nasty form of cancer ?

PRESIDENT PUTIN is seriously ill, according to a number of seasoned observers of the Russian scene. Some of them suggest that he is suffering from cancer, perhaps even one of the most feared forms of the disease – cancer of the spinal cord, which might explain his periodically bad back.

Even if this news is incorrect, he is still worthy of a thread, because:

1. He has a long history of deaths in the family; word on the street is, most of his ancestors died themselves.

2. All men are mortal. Vladimir Putin is a man.

 

[msc 18,443]

I love the eternal DDT optimism of point 2.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Could the unmoveable object that is Vladimir Putin be about to meet the irresistible force of a nasty form of cancer ?

 

PRESIDENT PUTIN is seriously ill, according to a number of seasoned observers of the Russian scene. Some of them suggest that he is suffering from cancer, perhaps even one of the most feared forms of the disease – cancer of the spinal cord, which might explain his periodically bad back.

 

Even if this news is incorrect, he is still worthy of a thread, because:

 

1. He has a long history of deaths in the family; word on the street is, most of his ancestors died themselves.

 

2. All men are mortal. Vladimir Putin is a man.

 

He's also got a growing number of enemies with independent financial means and a history of - alleged - involvement in the death by poisoning or other highly specialist means of others. The higher they climb and all that. Personally, I'd say his life insurance odds would be more agreeable than - say - any significant politician in Pakistan, or even Northern Ireland, but you never know.

[JR976evil 906]

Can't rule out a Stonewall assassination coup...

[Dr. Zorders 1,271]

Can't rule out a Stonewall assassination coup...

 

I think you took Ann Coulter's "gay mafia" comments a bit too literally.

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

Most of his ancestors died. That really makes him stand out!

[the_engineer 1,415]

you don't pick a fight with putin unless you want your ass kicked.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

Can't rule out a Stonewall assassination coup...

 

 

Aye, that'd be a bummer all round.

 

 

 

Oh, there's my coat!

[JR976evil 906]

Can't rule out a Stonewall assassination coup...

 

 

Aye, that'd be a bummer all round.

 

 

 

Oh, there's my coat!

 

Dearie me

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Our w***er of a PM vows he is going to "shirtfront" Putin at the G20 next month: http://www.abc.net.a...ane-g20/5810002

 

I am sure Putin is trembling at the knees!

 

 

 

UPDATE: Pravda responds:

 

 

An editorial in the English language version of Pravda suggested Mr Putin "wash his hands carefully and sterilise them after shaking the paw offered to him by Australia's Prime Minister Tony Abbott at the forthcoming G20 Summit in Brisbane".

 

"When Australia isn't busy crawling around the legs of its colonial master, England, or trying to crawl up the anatomy of London's master, Washington, participating in their wars to pick up a few crumbs thrown Canberra's way, its politicians are busy kowtowing to Europe and the USA making stupid and unfounded remarks about Russia," the editorial added.

 

"It is not about [the] Ebola virus ... it is about the disease called insolence and Australia's colonial chip on its shoulder."

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Our w***er of a PM vows he is going to "shirtfront" Putin at the G20 next month: http://www.abc.net.a...ane-g20/5810002

 

I am sure Putin is trembling at the knees!

 

 

 

UPDATE: Pravda responds:

 

 

An editorial in the English language version of Pravda suggested Mr Putin "wash his hands carefully and sterilise them after shaking the paw offered to him by Australia's Prime Minister Tony Abbott at the forthcoming G20 Summit in Brisbane".

 

"When Australia isn't busy crawling around the legs of its colonial master, England, or trying to crawl up the anatomy of London's master, Washington, participating in their wars to pick up a few crumbs thrown Canberra's way, its politicians are busy kowtowing to Europe and the USA making stupid and unfounded remarks about Russia," the editorial added.

 

"It is not about [the] Ebola virus ... it is about the disease called insolence and Australia's colonial chip on its shoulder."

 

 

For those who don't speak Australian-ese, this is a shirtfront (at the 12 second mark):

 

[Guest Lyudmila Putina]

Our w***er of a PM vows he is going to "shirtfront" Putin at the G20 next month: http://www.abc.net.a...ane-g20/5810002

 

I am sure Putin is trembling at the knees!

 

 

 

UPDATE: Pravda responds:

 

 

An editorial in the English language version of Pravda suggested Mr Putin "wash his hands carefully and sterilise them after shaking the paw offered to him by Australia's Prime Minister Tony Abbott at the forthcoming G20 Summit in Brisbane".

 

"When Australia isn't busy crawling around the legs of its colonial master, England, or trying to crawl up the anatomy of London's master, Washington, participating in their wars to pick up a few crumbs thrown Canberra's way, its politicians are busy kowtowing to Europe and the USA making stupid and unfounded remarks about Russia," the editorial added.

 

"It is not about [the] Ebola virus ... it is about the disease called insolence and Australia's colonial chip on its shoulder."

 

 

For those who don't speak Australian-ese, this is a shirtfront (at the 12 second mark):

 

 

Tough guy, hah?

 

Bet he doesn't know that Mr. Putin has a black belt in Judo. Btw. I'm not a fan of Russia or Putin, but this is a fight that Australia shouldn't really pick. They should seriously think twice about what kind of foreign policy they want to pursue. Australians fought in the Vietnam war with the Americans - was it really necessary or even useful for them? No, hell no!

 

What kind of economic or political stakes are there in Ukraine for Australia? Zilch, nothing, none. They should know better and pursue a foreign policy based on what THEIR country needs.

[Dr. Zorders 1,271]

Our w***er of a PM vows he is going to "shirtfront" Putin at the G20 next month: http://www.abc.net.a...ane-g20/5810002

 

I am sure Putin is trembling at the knees!

 

 

 

UPDATE: Pravda responds:

 

 

An editorial in the English language version of Pravda suggested Mr Putin "wash his hands carefully and sterilise them after shaking the paw offered to him by Australia's Prime Minister Tony Abbott at the forthcoming G20 Summit in Brisbane".

 

"When Australia isn't busy crawling around the legs of its colonial master, England, or trying to crawl up the anatomy of London's master, Washington, participating in their wars to pick up a few crumbs thrown Canberra's way, its politicians are busy kowtowing to Europe and the USA making stupid and unfounded remarks about Russia," the editorial added.

 

"It is not about [the] Ebola virus ... it is about the disease called insolence and Australia's colonial chip on its shoulder."

 

 

For those who don't speak Australian-ese, this is a shirtfront (at the 12 second mark):

 

 

Tough guy, hah?

 

Bet he doesn't know that Mr. Putin has a black belt in Judo. Btw. I'm not a fan of Russia or Putin, but this is a fight that Australia shouldn't really pick. They should seriously think twice about what kind of foreign policy they want to pursue. Australians fought in the Vietnam war with the Americans - was it really necessary or even useful for them? No, hell no!

 

What kind of economic or political stakes are there in Ukraine for Australia? Zilch, nothing, none. They should know better and pursue a foreign policy based on what THEIR country needs.

 

Well thank you, A.J.P. Taylor.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Our w***er of a PM vows he is going to "shirtfront" Putin at the G20 next month: http://www.abc.net.a...ane-g20/5810002

 

I am sure Putin is trembling at the knees!

 

 

 

UPDATE: Pravda responds:

 

 

An editorial in the English language version of Pravda suggested Mr Putin "wash his hands carefully and sterilise them after shaking the paw offered to him by Australia's Prime Minister Tony Abbott at the forthcoming G20 Summit in Brisbane".

 

"When Australia isn't busy crawling around the legs of its colonial master, England, or trying to crawl up the anatomy of London's master, Washington, participating in their wars to pick up a few crumbs thrown Canberra's way, its politicians are busy kowtowing to Europe and the USA making stupid and unfounded remarks about Russia," the editorial added.

 

"It is not about [the] Ebola virus ... it is about the disease called insolence and Australia's colonial chip on its shoulder."

 

 

For those who don't speak Australian-ese, this is a shirtfront (at the 12 second mark):

 

 

Tough guy, hah?

 

Bet he doesn't know that Mr. Putin has a black belt in Judo. Btw. I'm not a fan of Russia or Putin, but this is a fight that Australia shouldn't really pick. They should seriously think twice about what kind of foreign policy they want to pursue. Australians fought in the Vietnam war with the Americans - was it really necessary or even useful for them? No, hell no!

 

What kind of economic or political stakes are there in Ukraine for Australia? Zilch, nothing, none. They should know better and pursue a foreign policy based on what THEIR country needs.

 

G'day Mrs Putina.

 

Your ambassador has spoken:

 

 

""From my personal perspective, I would say that this is obviously quite unusual for diplomatic practice to go this personal and, we may say, this physical," Mr Odoevskiy said.

 

"This is an international event focused around the economic issues, and as we are aware at this point there has not been a request for a bilateral meeting, either from Moscow or from Canberra.

"So we are not sure where exactly and when the Australian Prime Minister would like to shirtfront president Putin."

 

[snip]

 

"Frankly speaking, we are not expecting any physical confrontation during the upcoming Brisbane summit."

 

http://www.abc.net.a...at-says/5813096

 

 

 

Not to mention that....

 

"In an email exchange with the ABC's AM program, Pravda journalist Timothy Bancroft-Hinchley said Mr Abbott's comments were "the most blatant example of shit-faced ignorance and pig-headed arrogance the world has seen since the likes of Hitler or Pol Pot"."

 

 

http://www.abc.net.a...comment/5814258

[Magere Hein 1,400]

"In an email exchange with the ABC's AM program, Pravda journalist Timothy Bancroft-Hinchley said Mr Abbott's comments were "the most blatant example of shit-faced ignorance and pig-headed arrogance the world has seen since the likes of Hitler or Pol Pot"."

 

http://www.abc.net.a...comment/5814258

 

I don't think mr Abbott's choice of words is wise, but I do appreciate his intentions. Bancroft-Hinchley's comment is, of course, nonsense. If anybody in this conflict resembles Hitler in his approach to international relations it's Putin rather than Abbott. If Chamberlain had been more confrontational in 1938, mid 20th century history might have been quite different.

 

regards,

Hein

[Guest Dmitriy A. Medvedev]

I don't think mr Abbott's choice of words is wise, but I do appreciate his intentions. Bancroft-Hinchley's comment is, of course, nonsense. If anybody in this conflict resembles Hitler in his approach to international relations it's Putin rather than Abbott. If Chamberlain had been more confrontational in 1938, mid 20th century history might have been quite different.

 

regards,

Hein

 

At least, Chemberlain was in a position to go to war against Germany if he wanted to, although he knew well that it wouldn't be easy or advantageous to Britain, so he had good reasons to try to avoid the inevitable.

 

On the other hand, from a practical point of view, Australia is no match for Russia. The world's second most powerful nuclear superpower vs. a lesser NATO member that doesn't even have an independent foreign policy.

 

Maybe the economic sanctions will hurt them?

 

Oh well, the bilateral trade accounts for less than 1% of the total for both countries; Russia does have investments there, but overall they are moderately important trade partners for each other. (Of course, the Ukraine is even less important for the Aussies, so that's why they should've kept to business as usual (and shouldn't have meddled in Russian affairs).

[Bibliogryphon 9,579]

I don't think mr Abbott's choice of words is wise, but I do appreciate his intentions. Bancroft-Hinchley's comment is, of course, nonsense. If anybody in this conflict resembles Hitler in his approach to international relations it's Putin rather than Abbott. If Chamberlain had been more confrontational in 1938, mid 20th century history might have been quite different.

 

regards,

Hein

 

At least, Chemberlain was in a position to go to war against Germany if he wanted to, although he knew well that it wouldn't be easy or advantageous to Britain, so he had good reasons to try to avoid the inevitable.

 

On the other hand, from a practical point of view, Australia is no match for Russia. The world's second most powerful nuclear superpower vs. a lesser NATO member that doesn't even have an independent foreign policy.

 

Maybe the economic sanctions will hurt them?

 

Oh well, the bilateral trade accounts for less than 1% of the total for both countries; Russia does have investments there, but overall they are moderately important trade partners for each other. (Of course, the Ukraine is even less important for the Aussies, so that's why they should've kept to business as usual (and shouldn't have meddled in Russian affairs).

 

Isn't Mr Abbott's beef about the responsibility the Russians have for the Deaths of Australian citizens aboard the Malaysian Airlines flight. Although I haven't heard the Dutch Prime Minister make similar threats.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

I don't think mr Abbott's choice of words is wise, but I do appreciate his intentions. Bancroft-Hinchley's comment is, of course, nonsense. If anybody in this conflict resembles Hitler in his approach to international relations it's Putin rather than Abbott. If Chamberlain had been more confrontational in 1938, mid 20th century history might have been quite different.

At least, Chemberlain was in a position to go to war against Germany if he wanted to, although he knew well that it wouldn't be easy or advantageous to Britain, so he had good reasons to try to avoid the inevitable.

 

As I understand it, Chamberlain did what he could, or more precisely: he didn't do what he couldn't. The shameful part of the Munich agreement was that he entered into a treatise that sanctioned the German occupation of territory belonging to a third nation. That the agreement would prove to be worth less than the paper it was written on he might have guessed, but couldn't know.

 

Isn't Mr Abbott's beef about the responsibility the Russians have for the Deaths of Australian citizens aboard the Malaysian Airlines flight. Although I haven't heard the Dutch Prime Minister make similar threats.

 

That's my understanding of it. The Dutch government (and parliament) are currently awaiting the results of investigation of the exact cause of the MH17 crash. It's difficult to predict what the government will do should it become apparent that Russia did indeed play a part in it. Obviously the government doesn't look kindly on killing 196 Dutch citizens, but I expect they'll try to find redress through legal means. The Netherlands do have considerable trade with Russia. Considering the relative sizes of their economies, sanctions will probably hurt the Dutch more than the Russians.

 

regards,

Hein

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

 

 

Isn't Mr Abbott's beef about the responsibility the Russians have for the Deaths of Australian citizens aboard the Malaysian Airlines flight. Although I haven't heard the Dutch Prime Minister make similar threats.

 

That's my understanding of it. The Dutch government (and parliament) are currently awaiting the results of investigation of the exact cause of the MH17 crash. It's difficult to predict what the government will do should it become apparent that Russia did indeed play a part in it. Obviously the government doesn't look kindly on killing 196 Dutch citizens, but I expect they'll try to find redress through legal means. The Netherlands do have considerable trade with Russia. Considering the relative sizes of their economies, sanctions will probably hurt the Dutch more than the Russians.

 

regards,

Hein

 

Yes that's correct.

[Guest Alexei Miller]

Isn't Mr Abbott's beef about the responsibility the Russians have for the Deaths of Australian citizens aboard the Malaysian Airlines flight. Although I haven't heard the Dutch Prime Minister make similar threats.

Well, on the face of it, yes, this is what he's complaining about, though even this article states that "oth the Federal Government and the Opposition have been highly critical of Russia's response to the MH17 plane crash, as well as its behaviour towards Ukraine". But the surprising amount of agressivity and tactlessness in his comments might -at least partly- stem from the frustration they feel since Russia could come up with effective countermeasures against the so called "Euromaidan revolution", which was little more than a Western-backed coup against the Russian-friendly but democratically elected and legitimate government of Ukraine. The fact that the govt. wanted to side with the Russians instead of the NATO/EU hardly justified Western intervention against them, at least you wouldn't find anything supporing that in the UN charter.

 

Consider for a moment, what would have happened if a similar coup d'état had taken place in a francophone African country instead of Ukraine? The answer is pretty straightforward: As we have seen in several such countries in the past (Gabon, Mali, CAR - actually read the whole list: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2013/01/18/gabon-to-mali-history-of-french-military-interventions-in-africa/ ), French troops would appear in a few months to restore order and protect their country's interest. No one is ever protesting. But what happens if Russia intervenes in a similar situation in a Russophone country with which they shared a long common history and had close economic ties? Horror of horrors!

 

What even the Australian PM admits in this interview: (1) Russia was involved only indirectly (if it was even involved); and (2) the plane was shot down by mistake. What they didn't admit but should also be considered: (3) the plane was shot down over a war zone where both sides had a vital interest to try to prevent the other side from getting aerial support.

 

And whenever there is a war or a major civil war (like in Ukraine), accidental civilian deaths are usually unavoidable. We could see that in the Yugoslav Wars where the USAF accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, in Gaza in 2014 where the IDF killed more civilians than combatants (even according to their own accounts) etc. Of course, the Australian government has the right to find out what happened to their citizens and who was responsible but I don't see how acting extra-tough and rude would help their cause.

[Body Snatcher 44 107]

Isn't Mr Abbott's beef about the responsibility the Russians have for the Deaths of Australian citizens aboard the Malaysian Airlines flight. Although I haven't heard the Dutch Prime Minister make similar threats.

Well, on the face of it, yes, this is what he's complaining about, though even this article states that "oth the Federal Government and the Opposition have been highly critical of Russia's response to the MH17 plane crash, as well as its behaviour towards Ukraine". But the surprising amount of agressivity and tactlessness in his comments might -at least partly- stem from the frustration they feel since Russia could come up with effective countermeasures against the so called "Euromaidan revolution", which was little more than a Western-backed coup against the Russian-friendly but democratically elected and legitimate government of Ukraine. The fact that the govt. wanted to side with the Russians instead of the NATO/EU hardly justified Western intervention against them, at least you wouldn't find anything supporing that in the UN charter.

 

Consider for a moment, what would have happened if a similar coup d'état had taken place in a francophone African country instead of Ukraine? The answer is pretty straightforward: As we have seen in several such countries in the past (Gabon, Mali, CAR - actually read the whole list: http://globalvoiceso...ions-in-africa/ ), French troops would appear in a few months to restore order and protect their country's interest. No one is ever protesting. But what happens if Russia intervenes in a similar situation in a Russophone country with which they shared a long common history and had close economic ties? Horror of horrors!

 

What even the Australian PM admits in this interview: (1) Russia was involved only indirectly (if it was even involved); and (2) the plane was shot down by mistake. What they didn't admit but should also be considered: (3) the plane was shot down over a war zone where both sides had a vital interest to try to prevent the other side from getting aerial support.

 

And whenever there is a war or a major civil war (like in Ukraine), accidental civilian deaths are usually unavoidable. We could see that in the Yugoslav Wars where the USAF accidentally bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, in Gaza in 2014 where the IDF killed more civilians than combatants (even according to their own accounts) etc. Of course, the Australian government has the right to find out what happened to their citizens and who was responsible but I don't see how acting extra-tough and rude would help their cause.

 

It's Tony Abbot we're talking about here.

 

I can tell you now, as an Australian, there isn't really any love lost between Australia and Russia; not really matey in the first place and I remember we were shocked just as much as the rest of the world was when reports came through of the human rights abuses levelled against some demographics of the population there. Putin is attending the G20 summit in Brisbane later on in the year and Abbot, being Abbot, will not simply be seen to roll-over in Putin's presence on his home turf.

 

Additionally, I do not accept your premise of "other countries do this as well." What goes on in deepest darkest Africa is quite unlike what goes on Europe's doorstep. the French might balls it up in their former colonies from time to time, but this is arguably the most unstable place in the world. Simply pointing to the actions of group A to placate the actions of group B doesn't wash in my opinion. Also your point about accidental civilian deaths being usually unavoidable in civil war contexts troubles me somewhat. I firmly believe in this instance that is was purely avoidable, I suspect it was some trigger-happy yahoo pointing his missile at a flying object in order to prove how much a hero he actually is. I don't see how targeting a plane load of innocent non-combatants could would help their cause.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Now that's a coincidence...

 

Earlier this evening Dutch PM Rutte had a conversation about the MH17 crash with President Putin at the ASEM summit in Milan. According to Dutch media Rutte wrote a statement on his facebook () page, which translates to:

It's an emotionally laden subject, of course I'm angry at all parties who made it impossible to start work in the area. But now it's a matter of reaching our goals after all. I'll keep taking every opportunity to get attention for this.

 

I'm not impressed.

 

regards,

Hein

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

facebook ( ) page

A man after my own heart!

[Guest Alexander Dugin]

Now that's a coincidence...

 

Earlier this evening Dutch PM Rutte had a conversation about the MH17 crash with President Putin at the ASEM summit in Milan. According to Dutch media Rutte wrote a statement on his facebook ( ) page, which translates to:

It's an emotionally laden subject, of course I'm angry at all parties who made it impossible to start work in the area. But now it's a matter of reaching our goals after all. I'll keep taking every opportunity to get attention for this.

 

I'm not impressed.

 

regards,

Hein

 

I bet you aren't. The language of diplomacy is rarely able to resonate with the voters, who would be more impressed by a "hawkish" statement akin to the one made by Mr Abbot. For them, Mr Rutten's words might even come across as wimpy or wishy-washy, since they Western media has suggested that the bulk of the responsibility (for the disaster) lies with the Russians and they'd feel that the bastards deserve to be called out…

 

But now consider another aspect: Which type of response is more likely to elicit a positive response from Mr Putin? If you are going to meet him with your pre-announced intention to "shirtfront" him, you'll most likely put him off (since he can hardly allow to be publicly humiliated) and he'll try his best to avoid you altogether or terminate the conversation as soon as he can. It might also (negatively) affect the diplomatic and economic relations between the two countries since they'd not be able to broker a high-level deal for at least a year or so (until Russian voters will have forgotten about the incident). On the other hand, Mr Rutten's more diplomatic stance might result in a better chance to actually accomplish his goals, namely to get the Russians to co-operate with them and help their investigative efforts.

 

Mr Abbot might be able to afford a rift between Australia and Russia precisely since they have never viewed the Russians as serious partners anyways, and the little worsening of their - already insignificant - relations might be affordable if he can score a few points with his own voters. On the other hand, the stakes may be higher for Mr Rutten and the Netherlands, so their more cautious approach might also be justified.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Now that's a coincidence...

 

Earlier this evening Dutch PM Rutte had a conversation about the MH17 crash with President Putin at the ASEM summit in Milan. According to Dutch media Rutte wrote a statement on his facebook ( ) page, which translates to:

It's an emotionally laden subject, of course I'm angry at all parties who made it impossible to start work in the area. But now it's a matter of reaching our goals after all. I'll keep taking every opportunity to get attention for this.

 

I'm not impressed.

 

regards,

Hein

 

I bet you aren't. The language of diplomacy is rarely able to resonate with the voters, who would be more impressed by a "hawkish" statement akin to the one made by Mr Abbot. For them, Mr Rutten's words might even come across as wimpy or wishy-washy, since they Western media has suggested that the bulk of the responsibility (for the disaster) lies with the Russians and they'd feel that the bastards deserve to be called out…

 

But now consider another aspect: Which type of response is more likely to elicit a positive response from Mr Putin? If you are going to meet him with your pre-announced intention to "shirtfront" him, you'll most likely put him off (since he can hardly allow to be publicly humiliated) and he'll try his best to avoid you altogether or terminate the conversation as soon as he can. It might also (negatively) affect the diplomatic and economic relations between the two countries since they'd not be able to broker a high-level deal for at least a year or so (until Russian voters will have forgotten about the incident). On the other hand, Mr Rutten's more diplomatic stance might result in a better chance to actually accomplish his goals, namely to get the Russians to co-operate with them and help their investigative efforts.

 

Mr Abbot might be able to afford a rift between Australia and Russia precisely since they have never viewed the Russians as serious partners anyways, and the little worsening of their - already insignificant - relations might be affordable if he can score a few points with his own voters. On the other hand, the stakes may be higher for Mr Rutten and the Netherlands, so their more cautious approach might also be justified.

You are correct in that Abbott's comments were intended for a certain section of voters domestically (It has also had an adverse affect on another section of voters.) The thing is, he has also painted himself into a corner in that he will have to now live up to expectations to "talk tough" with Putin or he will lose the respect of those voters. It is all theatre; the real negotiations will be behind closed doors.