Scottish Independence

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

1 hour ago, YoungWillz said:

It's all crazy. Personally speaking, the UK flourished historically because all parts of it had something to offer and contributed to its success and therefore benefited to a greater or lesser degree from it.

 

Not been like that for decades. Large swathes of all the constituent nations denuded of their main industries, little to no roll out of the benefits that London and the South East has been reaping and continues to reap from the rest of us. Brexit I believe was a cry for help from the country. "We want our country back" or summat. Make Westminster accountable to the country, and they'll be able to give us what we want.

 

The answer? Thanks for your vote. London will be a special case and fuck your fishing industry, fuck your farmers, in fact fuck you all, like we have been doing since 1979. We forgot all about you and we'll suck the wealth from the regions to prop up the very people who benefited most and fucked you all in 2008. And will continue to do so until at least 2030.

 

What's that? New giant oilfield discovered off the coast of Scotland? We'll have that, so fuck your independence vote.

 

Wales? Heavily reliant on EU funding, because hey if they're going to do it, why should Westminster? Voted out. Now they'll be even poorer and why would Westminster want it otherwise? Will they see the benefits of more control? I doubt it. As BiblioG says, it's much more intermingled culturally, societally, etc etc. and heavily reliant on the public sector. If it gains something (such as a giant oilfield) I'm sure the calls might be different, but it will be a long while if ever that Wales could even consider independence imo.

Thanks for that. Did Wales ever really benefit though, even in the 19th C?  They basically had their coal raped from them and didn't receive much in return as far as I can tell, apart from turning Cardiff into a modern industrial port.  As far as I understand, the Welsh still lack basic infrastructure even today, like a highway or a direct rail link connecting the north of the country to the south without bypassing through England first. Was this through neglect or a deliberate imperialist policy to keep parts of Wales isolated from each other?  If the latter, I gather that it worked because I have heard that many people in northern Wales feel greater affinity for Liverpool than they do for their own capital, Cardiff, because it is easier to reach.

 

I don't believe excuses about central Wales being too hilly for highways or direct trainlines either. If the isolationist Swiss could manage to bore through their mountains (which are gigantic Alps, for heaven's sake) than the mighty British Empire could have done the same.

 

These are genuine questions by the way.  I am not trying to stir the pot or upset the Poms here (well, not too much   ).

[YoungWillz 21,066]

2 hours ago, Davey Jones' Locker said:

Thanks for that. Did Wales ever really benefit though, even in the 19th C?  They basically had their coal raped from them and didn't receive much in return as far as I can tell, apart from turning Cardiff into a modern industrial port.  As far as I understand, the Welsh still lack basic infrastructure even today, like a highway or a direct rail link connecting the north of the country to the south without bypassing through England first. Was this through neglect or a deliberate imperialist policy to keep parts of Wales isolated from each other?  If the latter, I gather that it worked because I have heard that many people in northern Wales feel greater affinity for Liverpool than they do for their own capital, Cardiff, because it is easier to reach.

 

I don't believe excuses about central Wales being too hilly for highways or direct trainlines either. If the isolationist Swiss could manage to bore through their mountains (which are gigantic Alps, for heaven's sake) than the mighty British Empire could have done the same.

 

These are genuine questions by the way.  I am not trying to stir the pot or upset the Poms here (well, not too much   ).

I don't know enough about the history of Wales. There is a highway from North to South though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A470_road not a motorway though and a part of it does appear to be local road. Trains, yeah agreed, why?

 

Wales does appear to that part of the UK that contributed raw materials (coal, slate, copper etc) to other parts of the UK to manufacture or assist in the manufacture of finished goods. Mostly gone.

 

Watched a recent Question Time from Wales and there does seem to be a divide between the North and South and a further divide between the rest of Wales and Anglesey. But I'd say most countries have a divergence of needs or opinions within them due to geography or what work is done in a particular part, etc, nothing unique to the individual countries of the UK.

 

Wales has never had a distinct system of laws though, that is where it really differs from Scotland. What applies in England has always applied in Wales so they have a much more homogenous system with each other, whereas Scotland has had very distinct and different traditions. I well remember the dander being raised for example when Cameron was announcing "national days of celebration" for the anniversary of Magna Carta, something absolutely alien and inapplicable to Scotland. Maybe that different tradition contributes to a different sense of identity to other parts of the UK.

 

Doesn't mean we have to stand alone. But when you are told to shut up and we have to "come together" after being told the different result in the referendum doesn't matter a jot...

 

Well, who knows?

[Cat O'Falk 3,290]

On 28/03/2017 at 22:11, YoungWillz said:

PS. Wish I was ginger. My ginger friends say they'd rather not be, but I am envious...

Hen, you're ginger; just like me. 

[Sir Creep 7,070]

I swear on a stack of Bibles..... as my eyes glanced at the titles just now, I thought I saw "Scottish Impotence", which gave me pause.  No no it's "Scottish Independence" you dolt!
But after a couple seconds of reflection, I believe the titles are interchangeable.
SC

[YoungWillz 21,066]

As England and Wales turn ever more inward, voting for swivel-eyed Farage and even more swivel-eyed Widdecombe, flagellating themselves like a boarding school entrant for the enjoyment of the older lads, Scotland looks outward with a global view of its place in the world.

 

As the Euro election map north of the border turns golden yellow rather than muddy blue, the time is right say our glorious leaders to become independent again.

 

https://extra.ie/2019/05/27/news/nicola-sturgeon-inspired-by-ireland-as-she-reveals-proposed-date-for-scottish-independence-referendum

[YoungWillz 21,066]

Sturgeon's rather keen on getting this going again.

 

Very keen.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50036176

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,219]

13th Century

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,219]

21st Century

[maryportfuncity 10,657]

[bladan 293]

Misers and Nessie and so-so whisky

[YoungWillz 21,066]

1 hour ago, maryportfuncity said:

 

I'm afraid this is rather unthinking and misleading.

 

Almost half the squad weren't born in Scotland:

 

Berghan; Thomson; Maitland - New Zealand

Dell; Nel - South Africa

Toolis; Johnson - Australia

Barclay - Hong Kong

Watson; Wilson; Price; Pyrgos; Harris; Taylor - England

Seymour - United States

 

I guess when your team is fullof also rans from other countries, thy team's results shall be also rans.

[the_engineer 1,415]

51 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

 

I'm afraid this is rather unthinking and misleading.

 

Almost half the squad weren't born in Scotland:

 

Berghan; Thomson; Maitland - New Zealand

Dell; Nel - South Africa

Toolis; Johnson - Australia

Barclay - Hong Kong

Watson; Wilson; Price; Pyrgos; Harris; Taylor - England

Seymour - United States

 

I guess when your team is fullof also rans from other countries, thy team's results shall be also rans.

 

You might wanna check out the Japanese team It's like spot the Shinji. Seems to be working so far for them. 

 

Though sometimes it more than just works.  An Irishman lifted the cricket world Cup for England a few months ago (which I'm sure a few Irish had a chuckle about). After a great bowling performance by a Barbadian. 

[YoungWillz 21,066]

1 minute ago, the_engineer said:

 

You might wanna check out the Japanese team It's like spot the Shinji. Seems to be working so far for them. 

 

Though sometimes it more than just works.  An Irishman lifted the cricket world Cup for England a few months ago (which I'm sure a few Irish had a chuckle about). After a great bowling performance by a Barbadian. 

Yeah, it was the mindless racist tropes I was getting at.

 

When a fifth of your team is English, it hardly behoves the English to make sneering jokes about it, instead of supporting them as a home nation. Which adds grist to Sturgeon's mill, I guess.

 

 

[maryportfuncity 10,657]

8 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

 

I'm afraid this is rather unthinking and misleading.

 

Almost half the squad weren't born in Scotland:

 

Berghan; Thomson; Maitland - New Zealand

Dell; Nel - South Africa

Toolis; Johnson - Australia

Barclay - Hong Kong

Watson; Wilson; Price; Pyrgos; Harris; Taylor - England

Seymour - United States

 

I guess when your team is fullof also rans from other countries, thy team's results shall be also rans.

 

 

Overthinking it - I'd say the Scotsman in question in the joke is a supporter who enjoys a pre-match pint

[YoungWillz 21,066]

2 hours ago, maryportfuncity said:

 

 

Overthinking it - I'd say the Scotsman in question in the joke is a supporter who enjoys a pre-match pint

Well then again that is a racist assumption, that the entirety of the supporters would simply up and leave rather than stay and cheer on the other home nations.

 

Edit: Should probably make it clear that rugby supporters are a very different breed from footy supporters. I assume the very old trope joke is derived from the thousands of footy barbs, which simply doesn't translate to rugby.

 

I really had to chuckle at the outrage shown in the UK press about the behaviour of the Bulgarians in the footy as well. Given the history of a minority of English fans abroad, according to the outcome desired by said media, England would have been playing their internationals behind closed doors for over 30 years.

 

 

[maryportfuncity 10,657]

12 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Well then again that is a racist assumption, that the entirety of the supporters would simply up and leave rather than stay and cheer on the other home nations.

 

Edit: Should probably make it clear that rugby supporters are a very different breed from footy supporters. I assume the very old trope joke is derived from the thousands of footy barbs, which simply doesn't translate to rugby.

 

I really had to chuckle at the outrage shown in the UK press about the behaviour of the Bulgarians in the footy as well. Given the history of a minority of English fans abroad, according to the outcome desired by said media, England would have been playing their internationals behind closed doors for over 30 years.

 

 

 

 

A fair point about rugby supporters to be fair. Not the same code but...

 

One time when Carlisle Utd had a nail-biting encounter with Barnet our pre-match pub was shared with supporters going to the Rugby League Challenge Cup final. Supporters from all teams can go and tend to turn up wearing the shirt of their team - meaning Wembley that day was full of the likes of Whitehaven, Dewsbury, Featherstone Rovers etc. Had a chat with a few of them in the pub and thought this a really good idea in terms of everyone mixing to celebrate their love of the game. Also - if the FA adopted it - the only way Carlisle fans would get to an FA Cup final