Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[maryportfuncity 10,647]

On 15/04/2024 at 16:24, DCI Frank Burnside said:

 

 

 

And who made those mistakes Liz ? Hmmmmm

 

 

She's widened and got way flabbier round the face than when she was PM.  Actually looks stressed and pretty rough. Some time in her constituency doing the basics might be good for her, not that she seems interested

[TQR 14,399]

On 15/04/2024 at 16:41, TQR said:

Which section would I find it in, 'comedy' or 'fantasy'?

 

On 15/04/2024 at 16:55, RoverAndOut said:

Science fiction surely?

 

Well done Rover!

 

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

 

 

 

 

 

 

A 2 in 1. Alleged Fraud and a good old fashioned Tory sex scandal

[YoungWillz 21,055]

12 minutes ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

A 2 in 1. Alleged Fraud and a good old fashioned Tory sex scandal

You have to admire the Tories.

 

They manage to collect swindlers, fraudsters, corrupt bastards and sexual deviants like I collect commemorative 50p and 2 pound coins.

[Toast 16,143]

49 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

They manage to collect swindlers, fraudsters, corrupt bastards and sexual deviants like I collect commemorative 50p and 2 pound coins.

 

So do I  !

The coins, that is, not the rest.  Although I have collected a few bastards in my time.

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

 

 

And yet there's plenty in the Party who it would have no qualms about putting her back into the leadership....

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

Just to go back to the Menzies story

 

 

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

 

 

As low as Major and Corbyn at their lowest points  ooofff

[TQR 14,399]

Ipsos are yet another pollster to see the Tories sink under 20%. In 45 years of Ipsos surveys, that's the lowest the Tories have ever polled with them. The now second-lowest is last month. 

 

 

Ninja'd by the DCI but it's worth looking at twice because it's quite funny.

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

 

22 minutes ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

As low as Major and Corbyn at their lowest points  ooofff

 

The big difference between Sunak and Corbyn is that whilst a lot of people really disliked Jeremy Corbyn there was a hardcore of people who really liked him and flocked to see him speak. Whereas those people who do not dislike Sunak aren't singing his praises from the highest hills. It is greeted with a shrug and a better than Truss/Johnson/Starmer* 

 

*delete as appropriate

[TQR 14,399]

5 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

The big difference between Sunak and Corbyn is that whilst a lot of people really disliked Jeremy Corbyn there was a hardcore of people who really liked him and flocked to see him speak. Whereas those people who do not dislike Sunak aren't singing his praises from the highest hills. It is greeted with a shrug and a better than Truss/Johnson/Starmer

 

A question to anyone tuned in to politics in the 90s: how woeful did it all look for Major in his last couple of years? Did his electoral prospects look anything like as bad as they are now for Sunak? Was anyone still singing his praises?

 

Just trying to gauge whether comparisons to 1997 are about right or whether they're an over/underestimation.

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

1 minute ago, TQR said:

 

A question to anyone tuned in to politics in the 90s: how woeful did it all look for Major in his last couple of years? Did his electoral prospects look anything like as bad as they are now for Sunak? Was anyone still singing his praises?

 

I think he was astonished (and possibly a bit disappointed) to win in 1992. As the Parliament progressed divisions over Europe and a few scandals meant things looked dire by 1997 the writing was on the wall especially after John Smith was replaced by Tony Blair

[TQR 14,399]

1 minute ago, Bibliogryphon said:

I think he was astonished (and possibly a bit disappointed) to win in 1992. As the Parliament progressed divisions over Europe and a few scandals meant things looked dire by 1997 the writing was on the wall especially after John Smith was replaced by Tony Blair

 

Absolutely, it's well documented how much of a shock 1992 was and how the Tories just seemed tired by the end of it. Was there ever a real prospect, as there is now with scandal after scandal and shocking poll after shocking poll, of 1997 being a genuine existential threat to the Tories?

[msc 18,476]

11 minutes ago, TQR said:

 

Absolutely, it's well documented how much of a shock 1992 was and how the Tories just seemed tired by the end of it. Was there ever a real prospect, as there is now with scandal after scandal and shocking poll after shocking poll, of 1997 being a genuine existential threat to the Tories?

Worth adding that we love a political narrative and the 92 narrative ignores that polling had become much kinder to the Tories under Major but was being ignored because obviously the Tories were going to lose. John Major was quite popular with the public even among those who disliked his government.

 

As for Blair, a lot of 95/96 political news stuff has gone up on YouTube and it's an eye-opener. Leading Tories several times pointing out the polls can be wrong, they are hearing a different story on the doors, Tony Blair hasn't won over the public and Labour don't have any policies. I was getting deja vu watching. A lot of Tories legit thought the polling was wrong and that's been backed up to me by campaigners and candidates from the time. It also chimes with my admittedly childhood memories that Blair became popular after the election. But as with 1992 we like our narratives binary.

 

I think now is worse because frankly many people respected Major, Ken Clark, Michael Forsyth, etc even as they voted them out. Who has genuine widespread respect in this cabinet? I always try to be fair and even then I'm struggling for names.

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

Michael Portillo was meant to be the shining knight for the Tory Party who was going to shake them up and make them a credible opposition to New Labour but he lost his seat on that night in 1997. Most people outside the Tory party thought that Ken Clarke was the sensible choice for leader (especially after Michael Heseltine's Heart Attack) but for the party he was too pro-European so they went with the untested William Hague (who might have made a good successor to one of the names above but he was plunged in too quickly) for these decisions they spent 13 years in opposition. However we don't know whether Clarke would have been able to put up a credible fight at the 2001 election which hardly saw any seats change hands from Labour to Conservative.

 

As to members of the cabinet who elicit respect. The discussion around who will lead the party after the election does not throw up names that inspire confidence. A lot will depend on the size and make-up of the rump of Conservative MPs left and who would want the job. By saying Penny Mordaunt sounds like the best of a bad bunch is really just demonstrating how bad things are

[Father Brown 209]

I think it's come to a stage where the Tories that will inevitably hold their seats are starting to want to be in opposition. A huge wipeout will give them a chance to sort their shit out internally and reset. They've run out of energy and run out of people.

[TQR 14,399]

31 minutes ago, Father Brown said:

I think it's come to a stage where the Tories that will inevitably hold their seats are starting to want to be in opposition. A huge wipeout will give them a chance to sort their shit out internally and reset. They've run out of energy and run out of people.

Thing is, you look at the definite seat-holders - Braverman, Hayes, Truss, plenty of that ilk. Are they the foundations on which to build a party that’ll be electable again in 10 years? Are they fuck. The only way the Tories become remotely credible again is if they detoxify themselves to pre-Brexit standards. 

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

12 minutes ago, TQR said:

Thing is, you look at the definite seat-holders - Braverman, Hayes, Truss, plenty of that ilk. Are they the foundations on which to build a party that’ll be electable again in 10 years? Are they fuck. The only way the Tories become remotely credible again is if they detoxify themselves to pre-Brexit standards. 

 

The current Conservative Party is a uneasy coalition of One Nation Tories and Brexit/Culture War nutters. They only stay together because neither one wants to give up the activist base (which is needed come election time). In a recent council by-election in my constituency the Conservatives won (albeit on a very low turnout)

[TQR 14,399]

Seems to be a new one of these every week:

 

[Toast 16,143]

You couldn't make it up .... oh wait .....

[YoungWillz 21,055]

On 05/04/2023 at 09:49, TQR said:

Nicola Sturgeon’s husband and, until recently, chief executive of the SNP Peter Murrell has been arrested in a probe into their finances.

 

Oof. Poor Humza Yousaf.

Peter Murrell charged with embezzlement. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/24263653.peter-murrell-charged-connection-embezzlement-snp-funds/

 

What a lovely bunch.

[The Old Crem 3,606]

10 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Peter Murrell charged with embezzlement. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/scottish-news/24263653.peter-murrell-charged-connection-embezzlement-snp-funds/

 

What a lovely bunch.

Scottish Labour could get close to the 41 seats they won in 2005 and 2010.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

6 hours ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

 

 

As low as Major and Corbyn at their lowest points  ooofff

 

But not as low as Truss, right? 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

5 hours ago, msc said:

Worth adding that we love a political narrative and the 92 narrative ignores that polling had become much kinder to the Tories under Major but was being ignored because obviously the Tories were going to lose. John Major was quite popular with the public even among those who disliked his government.

 

As for Blair, a lot of 95/96 political news stuff has gone up on YouTube and it's an eye-opener. Leading Tories several times pointing out the polls can be wrong, they are hearing a different story on the doors, Tony Blair hasn't won over the public and Labour don't have any policies. I was getting deja vu watching. A lot of Tories legit thought the polling was wrong and that's been backed up to me by campaigners and candidates from the time. It also chimes with my admittedly childhood memories that Blair became popular after the election. But as with 1992 we like our narratives binary.

 

I think now is worse because frankly many people respected Major, Ken Clark, Michael Forsyth, etc even as they voted them out. Who has genuine widespread respect in this cabinet? I always try to be fair and even then I'm struggling for names.

 

This also chimes with the rumours of a Lab-Lib coalition in 1997 with Ashdown as Foreign Secretary. Surprisingly, all went quiet on that front with a majority of 179! 

 

As for the current cabinet, there's no one. All the decent ones were sacked or want nothing to do with the government and, in either case, are sat on the backbenches.

[TQR 14,399]

15 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

But not as low as Truss, right? 

 

My favourite stat about Liz Truss is that her net approval rating in the UK when she left office was -83%, which was at the time 4% worse than Vladimir Putin's.