Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted July 27, 2015 Actress Monica Maughan has died. She's best known in the UK for playing the nice-but-dull inmate Pat O'Connell in Prisoner Cell Block H. Vinegar Tits my dear, you may be interested in the great Prisoner reunion of 2011:http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8219303 Great watch!My sister picked Patsy King (governor Erica Davidson) in her DDP list so I'm very pleased to see she's looking in fine health. Quite surprised at how old Elspeth Ballantyne (Saint Meg) looked however - I know she's a couple of years older than most of the cast, Davo and Lizzie excepted, but she seemed and sounded rather frail. I was a massive fan of Prisoner Cell Block H when it was on late at night in the UK.Never missed an episode.Lizzie was my favourite character Vinegar Tits, NaG and the other "Prisoner" fans on this thread will be interested/shocked/horrified to learn that one of the stars of the show is up on child sex charges, according to this morning's news headlines:http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-28/prisoner-star-maggie-kirkpatrick-charged-with-child-sex-offences/6652464"In a statement, police confirmed the 74-year-old had been charged with two counts of indecent assault and one count of gross indecency with a person under 16."Maybe she really will end up being a prisoner!Trust the Daily Mail to have all the salacious details:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3176164/Prisoner-Home-Away-actress-Maggie-Kirkpatrick-74-facing-child-sex-charges-incident-13-year-old-girl.htmlOkay, I decree that this warrants its own thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted July 27, 2015 Mods, can we do an edit of the title? I had a brainfade - it needs to be Kirkpatrick, not Fitzpatrick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted July 27, 2015 Channel 9 are running with the story, too. The girl she allegedly raped was not part of the entertainment industry:http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/07/28/00/07/prisoner-star-maggie-kirkpatrick-facing-child-sex-charges-in-victoria I really don't know that much about her so I just had a look at Wikipedia. Interestingly enough, she is married and has a daughter although she is a "strong supporter of gay rights, having made numerous appearances... at the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggie_Kirkpatrick#Personal_life Hmmmm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted July 28, 2015 I really hope this is not true. As a big fan of PCBH I will find it hard to watch old episodes knowing one of the leading actresses is a child molestor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stonecold 51 Posted July 28, 2015 Ironic that she is currently performing in the musical "Wicked". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ra Ra Rasputin 99 Posted July 28, 2015 Channel 9 are running with the story, too. The girl she allegedly raped was not part of the entertainment industry: http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/07/28/00/07/prisoner-star-maggie-kirkpatrick-facing-child-sex-charges-in-victoria I really don't know that much about her so I just had a look at Wikipedia. Interestingly enough, she is married and has a daughter although she is a "strong supporter of gay rights, having made numerous appearances... at the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggie_Kirkpatrick#Personal_life Hmmmm I really really hope you are not suggesting that being a "strong supporter of gay rights" is a euphemism for being a paedophile/child molester. Anyway, it stands to reason that former "Prisoner" stars might appear at Mardi Gras' considering it was very popular amongst gays and lesbians. To me there's something which appears to be a bit off about this story; life imitating art (in, perhaps, its loosest sense of the word), albeit allegedly. A bit like when Joan Collins got divorced back in the height of her "Dynasty" fame and the press expected her to be all Alexis-like confusing fiction with fact. The Freak = nasty character therefore the actress playing her is easier game than, say, the actress who played Saint Meg. Saying all this though, I was wrong about Rolf Harris, so I'd take no notice of me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted July 28, 2015 Channel 9 are running with the story, too. The girl she allegedly raped was not part of the entertainment industry:http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/07/28/00/07/prisoner-star-maggie-kirkpatrick-facing-child-sex-charges-in-victoria I really don't know that much about her so I just had a look at Wikipedia. Interestingly enough, she is married and has a daughter although she is a "strong supporter of gay rights, having made numerous appearances... at the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggie_Kirkpatrick#Personal_life Hmmmm I really really hope you are not suggesting that being a "strong supporter of gay rights" is a euphemism for being a paedophile/child molester. Anyway, it stands to reason that former "Prisoner" stars might appear at Mardi Gras' considering it was very popular amongst gays and lesbians. To me there's something which appears to be a bit off about this story; life imitating art (in, perhaps, its loosest sense of the word), albeit allegedly. A bit like when Joan Collins got divorced back in the height of her "Dynasty" fame and the press expected her to be all Alexis-like confusing fiction with fact. The Freak = nasty character therefore the actress playing her is easier game than, say, the actress who played Saint Meg. Saying all this though, I was wrong about Rolf Harris, so I'd take no notice of me. No, all I was saying is that it was interesting that she was married with a child yet allegedly raped a female. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,662 Posted July 28, 2015 Channel 9 are running with the story, too. The girl she allegedly raped was not part of the entertainment industry:http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/07/28/00/07/prisoner-star-maggie-kirkpatrick-facing-child-sex-charges-in-victoria I really don't know that much about her so I just had a look at Wikipedia. Interestingly enough, she is married and has a daughter although she is a "strong supporter of gay rights, having made numerous appearances... at the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggie_Kirkpatrick#Personal_life Hmmmm I really really hope you are not suggesting that being a "strong supporter of gay rights" is a euphemism for being a paedophile/child molester. Anyway, it stands to reason that former "Prisoner" stars might appear at Mardi Gras' considering it was very popular amongst gays and lesbians. To me there's something which appears to be a bit off about this story; life imitating art (in, perhaps, its loosest sense of the word), albeit allegedly. A bit like when Joan Collins got divorced back in the height of her "Dynasty" fame and the press expected her to be all Alexis-like confusing fiction with fact. The Freak = nasty character therefore the actress playing her is easier game than, say, the actress who played Saint Meg. Saying all this though, I was wrong about Rolf Harris, so I'd take no notice of me. No, all I was saying is that it was interesting that she was married with a child yet allegedly raped a female. Then again, married with kids and forced sex with the same gender is par for the course if you're a Conservative MP, or summat, right? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themaninblack 2,112 Posted July 28, 2015 I've heard of method acting but this is taking things a bit too far... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom 2,539 Posted July 28, 2015 Mods, can we do an edit of the title? I had a brainfade - it needs to be Kirkpatrick, not Fitzpatrick. I was wondering there, as Maggie Fitzpatrick was in The Waltons and it didn't seem the sort of thing she'd be involved in. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Bearer 6,122 Posted July 28, 2015 Mods, can we do an edit of the title? I had a brainfade - it needs to be Kirkpatrick, not Fitzpatrick. Changed. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Mad Hatter 1,092 Posted August 2, 2015 I see you Rasputin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ra Ra Rasputin 99 Posted August 2, 2015 I see you Rasputin *waves back* :-) Just checking, but nothing new on this case in the Australian media. Whichever way it goes, unlike some of the older and/or frailer cast members of "Prisoner" Maggie Kirkpatrick appears to be in good nick (pun intended). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ra Ra Rasputin 99 Posted August 20, 2015 In breaking news, guilty verdict given with sentencing on Friday. I'm not sure how this will impact on Maggie Kirkpatrick's health, but... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean 6,343 Posted August 20, 2015 Can`t do her health any good that`s for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom 2,539 Posted August 20, 2015 Can`t do her health any good that`s for sure. When she does custodial time, will they put her in cell block H? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted August 20, 2015 The whole thing seems strange, IMHO. According to the news reports, it was only Kirkpatrick's word against that of her accuser, yet they found Kirkpatrick guilty... I would have thought they would need a whole lot more evidence than that. Apparently the judge found the accuser's claims "plausible" despite the fact that the accuser was a schizophrenic and drug addict at the time of the alleged assault and had had stints in a psychiatric hospital. I would have thought the burden of proof would have been a lot higher than one person's word against another so I wonder what convinced the judge. Anyway, even if Kirkpatrick is guilty of paedophilic rape, they stated that it is likely she will only have to do community service, not serve a prison term, which seems odd given the normal community outrage against paedophiles these days. If they think she is guilty, why such a light sentence? I bet Rolf wish he had her judge... Can any of DL's resident lawyers enlighten me on these puzzling points? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toast 16,170 Posted August 20, 2015 The accuser was 14, so this is not a paedophile case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted August 20, 2015 The accuser was 14, so this is not a paedophile case. Yes, okay hebephilia if we want to get technical... Weren't most of Rolf's victims adolescents too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungWillz 21,086 Posted August 20, 2015 In answer to DJL, I'm afraid I can't as I used to be a practitioner in Scotland, where (only just) corroboration is required. Much misunderstood, such corroboration can come from many sources (physical evidence, statements made shortly after the event, similar accusations by others, etc etc). And even with such a rule we lock up more people per head of population than many other countries who have different systems or a lesser "one word against the other" standard. Sentencing is again for each system, I guess there is the usual bias which seems to be inherent (and I'm not saying it's right or not) that the fairer sex must commit crimes because of societal issues they may have rather than being inherently bad and gain a lot more latitude, than men who are assumed to commit crimes because they are inherently bad rather than because of societal issues. (I'm not going back to my Jurisprudence class in any more detail, gad that was a drag!). Thus women tend to get lighter sentences than men, regardless. Obviously there may be other matters which the court hears which the press don't report, simply because reporters tend not to understand the weight that a court attaches to a point in sentencing and in any event the blackest picture sells the more copy. There you go, I'll say it - the legal system is sexist and is reported on badly, regardless of where you are from. Otherwise, not been of much help here at all. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted August 21, 2015 In answer to DJL, I'm afraid I can't as I used to be a practitioner in Scotland, where (only just) corroboration is required. Much misunderstood, such corroboration can come from many sources (physical evidence, statements made shortly after the event, similar accusations by others, etc etc). And even with such a rule we lock up more people per head of population than many other countries who have different systems or a lesser "one word against the other" standard. Sentencing is again for each system, I guess there is the usual bias which seems to be inherent (and I'm not saying it's right or not) that the fairer sex must commit crimes because of societal issues they may have rather than being inherently bad and gain a lot more latitude, than men who are assumed to commit crimes because they are inherently bad rather than because of societal issues. (I'm not going back to my Jurisprudence class in any more detail, gad that was a drag!). Thus women tend to get lighter sentences than men, regardless. Obviously there may be other matters which the court hears which the press don't report, simply because reporters tend not to understand the weight that a court attaches to a point in sentencing and in any event the blackest picture sells the more copy. There you go, I'll say it - the legal system is sexist and is reported on badly, regardless of where you are from. Otherwise, not been of much help here at all. Thanks. That is really interesting. I just find this "one word against the other" bloody scary, since we know there are many cases of false accusations. I thought "innocent til proven guilty" would require a much greater burden of proof... I wonder what corroboration there was in this case? (I have no idea what the legal system in her jurisdiction would require [it is different in each State.]) Just to go through your examples of possible forms of corroboration, the media states the victim didn't come forward for years for fears of being laughed at so there wouldn't be statements immediately after the event. It seems unlikely that physical evidence would survive after all this time (unless she was giving really accurate descriptions of Kirkpatrick's bedroom or something like that.) No idea if other people have come forward with similar accusations but the media didn't mention that. Yes, agreed that media reporting is atrocious and often inaccurate (not just on legal matters, of course.) Sad (and, again, bloody scary) that the court system is sexist. Is it also sending the signal that lesbian underage rape isn't as bad as heterosexual underage rape (or even male homosexual underage rape) since we know of all the celebs who have recently ended up in the slammer for these offences? Maybe there was some extenuating circumstance like the victim indicating she wanted sex at first but then changing her mind or something like that or sending out mixed signals because of her psychaitric condition. Dunno. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted August 21, 2015 Breaking news - Maggie has indeed avoided jail. She instead has to do 100 hours of community service: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-21/maggie-kirkpatrick-prisoner-star-sentenced-over-child-abuse/6714224 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ra Ra Rasputin 99 Posted August 21, 2015 In answer to DJL, I'm afraid I can't as I used to be a practitioner in Scotland, where (only just) corroboration is required. Much misunderstood, such corroboration can come from many sources (physical evidence, statements made shortly after the event, similar accusations by others, etc etc). And even with such a rule we lock up more people per head of population than many other countries who have different systems or a lesser "one word against the other" standard. Sentencing is again for each system, I guess there is the usual bias which seems to be inherent (and I'm not saying it's right or not) that the fairer sex must commit crimes because of societal issues they may have rather than being inherently bad and gain a lot more latitude, than men who are assumed to commit crimes because they are inherently bad rather than because of societal issues. (I'm not going back to my Jurisprudence class in any more detail, gad that was a drag!). Thus women tend to get lighter sentences than men, regardless. Obviously there may be other matters which the court hears which the press don't report, simply because reporters tend not to understand the weight that a court attaches to a point in sentencing and in any event the blackest picture sells the more copy. There you go, I'll say it - the legal system is sexist and is reported on badly, regardless of where you are from. Otherwise, not been of much help here at all. Thanks. That is really interesting. I just find this "one word against the other" bloody scary, since we know there are many cases of false accusations. I thought "innocent til proven guilty" would require a much greater burden of proof... I wonder what corroboration there was in this case? (I have no idea what the legal system in her jurisdiction would require [it is different in each State.]) Just to go through your examples of possible forms of corroboration, the media states the victim didn't come forward for years for fears of being laughed at so there wouldn't be statements immediately after the event. It seems unlikely that physical evidence would survive after all this time (unless she was giving really accurate descriptions of Kirkpatrick's bedroom or something like that.) No idea if other people have come forward with similar accusations but the media didn't mention that. Yes, agreed that media reporting is atrocious and often inaccurate (not just on legal matters, of course.) Sad (and, again, bloody scary) that the court system is sexist. Is it also sending the signal that lesbian underage rape isn't as bad as heterosexual underage rape (or even male homosexual underage rape) since we know of all the celebs who have recently ended up in the slammer for these offences? Maybe there was some extenuating circumstance like the victim indicating she wanted sex at first but then changing her mind or something like that or sending out mixed signals because of her psychaitric condition. Dunno. The news reports (or certainly Melbourne's The Age) have categorically stated that no penetration was involved so I wouldn't think legally "rape" is the correct term, as used above, and the definition of "indecent assault" seems to back this up. The so-called light sentence possibly may be a case of 1) somewhat less than circumstantial evidence (i.e. one person's word against another) and 2) molestation is classified as a lesser crime than rape (i.e. no continuing sexual "affair" took place over time unlike in the case of Rolf Harris et al). Kirkpatrick is maintaining her innocence, truthful or otherwise; I suspect 100 hours community service may be better for her health than to take the trial further at the risk of more bad publicity and prison time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davey Jones' Locker 1,324 Posted August 21, 2015 In answer to DJL, I'm afraid I can't as I used to be a practitioner in Scotland, where (only just) corroboration is required. Much misunderstood, such corroboration can come from many sources (physical evidence, statements made shortly after the event, similar accusations by others, etc etc). And even with such a rule we lock up more people per head of population than many other countries who have different systems or a lesser "one word against the other" standard. Sentencing is again for each system, I guess there is the usual bias which seems to be inherent (and I'm not saying it's right or not) that the fairer sex must commit crimes because of societal issues they may have rather than being inherently bad and gain a lot more latitude, than men who are assumed to commit crimes because they are inherently bad rather than because of societal issues. (I'm not going back to my Jurisprudence class in any more detail, gad that was a drag!). Thus women tend to get lighter sentences than men, regardless. Obviously there may be other matters which the court hears which the press don't report, simply because reporters tend not to understand the weight that a court attaches to a point in sentencing and in any event the blackest picture sells the more copy. There you go, I'll say it - the legal system is sexist and is reported on badly, regardless of where you are from. Otherwise, not been of much help here at all. Thanks. That is really interesting. I just find this "one word against the other" bloody scary, since we know there are many cases of false accusations. I thought "innocent til proven guilty" would require a much greater burden of proof... I wonder what corroboration there was in this case? (I have no idea what the legal system in her jurisdiction would require [it is different in each State.]) Just to go through your examples of possible forms of corroboration, the media states the victim didn't come forward for years for fears of being laughed at so there wouldn't be statements immediately after the event. It seems unlikely that physical evidence would survive after all this time (unless she was giving really accurate descriptions of Kirkpatrick's bedroom or something like that.) No idea if other people have come forward with similar accusations but the media didn't mention that. Yes, agreed that media reporting is atrocious and often inaccurate (not just on legal matters, of course.) Sad (and, again, bloody scary) that the court system is sexist. Is it also sending the signal that lesbian underage rape isn't as bad as heterosexual underage rape (or even male homosexual underage rape) since we know of all the celebs who have recently ended up in the slammer for these offences? Maybe there was some extenuating circumstance like the victim indicating she wanted sex at first but then changing her mind or something like that or sending out mixed signals because of her psychaitric condition. Dunno. The news reports (or certainly Melbourne's The Age) have categorically stated that no penetration was involved so I wouldn't think legally "rape" is the correct term, as used above, and the definition of "indecent assault" seems to back this up. The so-called light sentence possibly may be a case of 1) somewhat less than circumstantial evidence (i.e. one person's word against another) and 2) molestation is classified as a lesser crime than rape (i.e. no continuing sexual "affair" took place over time unlike in the case of Rolf Harris et al). Kirkpatrick is maintaining her innocence, truthful or otherwise; I suspect 100 hours community service may be better for her health than to take the trial further at the risk of more bad publicity and prison time. Yes but your Point 1 is the original issue. If there isn't much circumstantial evidence, how on earth did they find her guilty? I don't think a judge could say "I think you might be guilty but I don't have much evidence for it so I will just give you a light sentence to be on the safe side. There you go, no harm done!" On your opening point though, yes, I am no lawyer so I a not sure of the definitions, etc. We don't really know what she did to her anyway. Yes, the exercise in her community service might do Maggie the world of good and increase her longevity! Cheers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted August 21, 2015 damn! I was expecting Rita Connors and her bikie mates to give her the traditional Wentworth welcome for nonces too ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
