Deadpool Detective Work

[Spade_Cooley 9,530]

American character actor John Petlock - best known to you as either Dan Marsh in Dallas or Uncle Phil's partner at the law firm Henry Furth in Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is listed as dying in 2020 on IMDB. However I can't find any news reports of this from a brief Google/search of the socials. The fact that he shares his name with a murderer makes it a little harder to research as well. Any ideas?

[msc 18,477]

This isn't really a call for help, more a curio I thought @Ulitzer95 and others would like. 

 

Actor Anthony Ainley, who played The Master in the 1980s, is long gone now, of course. Died in 2004. Popular chap at conventions, he used to bring food to his convention Q&As to share with the fans! Anyhow, there used to be a mystery over his date of birth which the obits cleared up (as much as possible) by giving him a DOB of 1932.

 

 

However, as someone reminded me about the old rumour that Ainley was considerably older than he claimed, I remembered that you can find him in the BMD's and it's an odd one.

 

(In the pic, 2nd row, Holmes, Anthony, born Marylebone.)

 

Now, what's odd about this is that its WRONG. Ainley wasn't born in 1938. He moved to the Actors Orphanage in Surrey in 1938 and that's when his birth was recorded for the first time. (He attended the 1940s equivalent of latter stage high school/secondary school in 1948-50 and had his first adult job in late 1950, in case people need more convinced the BMD has inaccurate info.)

 

So the reasoning behind this is murky but seems to be: Ainley's father was a famous actor who slept around a lot. This produced a lot of kids, one of whom was the future Dr Who actor, at some point in the 1930s. One can fill in the gaps of child left to live with his mother who didn't register him, then later moving to the orphanage who died. But also the "much older" legend is clearly a myth going by his school years. He was born 1932. 

 

Anyhow, it ended well for Anthony (apart from the whole dying aged 71 of cancer bit) - he wound up inheriting his dad's fortune and by his 40s was considerably richer than his early childhood. However, I thought, if this is one case the birth certificates are bogus, perhaps we should be wary of them being similar wrong with cases we are not so familiar with?

[maryportfuncity 10,647]

Fuck knows, there's some talented fact finders at work on this thread. 

 

That said, I'd say locating a q/o for Jack Arends is beyond anyone hereabouts!

[Ulitzer95 12,644]

@msc in very rare circumstances erroneous information exists in the official records.

The record itself will not be incorrect, merely the function used to access it. In other words, his birth may have been registered in 1938 (and will appear under that year when you search) but if you ordered an actual copy of that record it will clarify he was born in 1932.

His circumstances are very unusual, even for an adoptee. As I said, errors in the birth, death and marriage records are very rare. So rare, it doesn't in any way discredit their reliability as far as I'm concerned.

[msc 18,477]

12 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

@msc in very rare circumstances erroneous information exists in the official records.

The record itself will not be incorrect, merely the function used to access it. In other words, his birth may have been registered in 1938 (and will appear under that year when you search) but if you ordered an actual copy of that record it will clarify he was born in 1932.

His circumstances are very unusual, even for an adoptee. As I said, errors in the birth, death and marriage records are very rare. So rare, it doesn't in any way discredit their reliable as far as I'm concerned.

 

Oh I wasn't say the records are discredited, more that it might explain discrepancies with other actors who may have had similar life experiences. 

 

It's not like how some records (most baptismal and educational but those things can be useful too) in Glasgow are lost because the daft sods forgot to remove the records from the buildings they were in before their demolition!

[Toast 16,141]

1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:

@msc in very rare circumstances erroneous information exists in the official records.

The record itself will not be incorrect, merely the function used to access it. In other words, his birth may have been registered in 1938 (and will appear under that year when you search) but if you ordered an actual copy of that record it will clarify he was born in 1932.

His circumstances are very unusual, even for an adoptee. As I said, errors in the birth, death and marriage records are very rare. So rare, it doesn't in any way discredit their reliability as far as I'm concerned.

 

Omissions, though, are not. 

The GRO records are compiled from the lists submitted by the local register offices, and occasionally an event was missed when the lists were copied.

So it can be worth checking with the office where the event was originally registered.

 

The further back you go, the wider the margin of potential error.  There's actually two books about the many mistakes in the Victorian BMD records, and the multitude of ways in which they came about.

http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/books/books-0/book0023-errors.htm

[arghton 6,745]

Felix Gadzhievich Dadaev (born 1920 or 1923) Stalin's body double and artist

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-559234/The-man-Stalins-body-double-finally-tells-story.html

https://www.rbth.com/history/333286-what-happened-stalins-double

Dadaev was one of Stalin's four body doubles in the 1940s and early 1950s and this has apparently been confirmed by the KGB.

His story was only revealed to the public in 2008 when he got a permission for talking about it from Putin and the latest picture I could find is from 2014:

According to the Russian wiki, he's alive and will be 99 next March. Can't find any other confirmation though, but I think that if he had died his death would be mentioned in a lot of places. Appeared in this 2013 document. Around 12:17 onwards

[YoungWillz 21,050]

On 06/10/2019 at 06:26, dean1991 said:

Don't suppose anybody knows if Jarvis Astaire is still knocking about? 

 

He is the British boxing promoter famous for bringing Muhammed Ali to the UK and would be 96 today but can't find much about him as of recent. 

Jarvis Astaire, who had probably been Michael Parkinson's oldest living interviewee being reported dead: 

 

IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0039939/

[arghton 6,745]

While checking on people related to Red Rum, the horse who was on the Deathlist in the 1990s and was a hit in 1995:

 

Red Rum's breeder, Martyn McEnery seems to have died off our radar in May 2019 aged 88 (atleast I can't find a post mentioning his death anywhere. Checked his first name, surname and the Horse Racing thread)

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/red-rums-breeder-martyn-mcenery-dies-at-the-age-of-88/378920

 

Red Rum's trainer Ginger McCain died in 2011 and this was reported here. Owner Noel le Mare is certainly dead as he was said to be "elderly" in the 1970s, already died in 1980 according to some pages.

 

Rum's late 70s jockey Tommy Stack is still living, 76 in November.

[Spade_Cooley 9,530]

This month's Fortean Times cover story is on the tale of Baby Jean, a (duh) baby who was "adopted" by a cult known as the Royal Fraternity of Master Metaphysicians, who attempted to make her immortal via a vegetarian diet and general good vibes. She was taken back by her birth mother after a year or so as the cult hadn't formally filed for adoption. Everyone else involved in the case is long dead, but Jean herself.... was she immortal? The article, as with a few other places online, says she was definitely alive in 2002 but had no interest in speaking to reporters about her past. She was born in 1938, in New York or thereabouts. Her name is either Jean Gaunt or Jean Gauntt (both spellings were used in press reports at the time). Her mother was Catherine Gaunt(t). We know that she married and had children, and I don't believe she is this person as Tennessee isn't that close to New York (if my American geography is any good). So... can anyone deliver an update?

[drol 11,952]

Syria seems to have four living ancient ministers of defence:

 

1)Muhammad al-Sufi (wiki, 1927)

2)Ziad al-Hariri (wiki, 1930): not this Colonel Ziad al-Hariri who visited a rebel camp in 2015, right?

3)Mahmoud Jaber (wiki, 1928)

4)Hamad Ubayd (wiki, 1928)

 

They seem to have completely vanished from history. Strongly doubt they are really alive.

[Ulitzer95 12,644]

Just updating my TV show lists... of the 69 actors who appeared in 15 or more episodes of Doctor Who in its original run, I only have one blank now.

His name is/was Dave Carter (IMDb). Last credit was in 1989, which makes me wonder if he died off radar. Anyone know a rough birth year either?

@msc maybe?

[msc 18,477]

3 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Just updating my TV show lists... of the 69 actors who appeared in 15 or more episodes of Doctor Who in its original run, I only have one blank now.

His name is/was Dave Carter (IMDb). Last credit was in 1989, which makes me wonder if he died off radar. Anyone know a rough birth year either?

@msc maybe?

 

The Old Silurian. I spent ages trying to track him down when doing that updated list a few weeks ago, to no avail whatsoever. But other folk with far more contacts than I have hit a brick wall trying to find him, he genuinely just gave up all his acting contacts when he retired and nobody seems to know where he went to. It's a common name, with very little known about his life, so nigh impossible to track down.

[Ulitzer95 12,644]

On 07/07/2021 at 20:42, YoungWillz said:

Someone is claiming that character actor John Pennington, probably best known as Peter the Civil Servant In Yes Minister but loads of other stuff, died last year: https://www.britmovie.co.uk/forum/cinema/obituaries/101739-john-pennington-rip

 

Maybe one for @Ulitzer95 kind attention (after the England game of course). There's a couple on Find A Will for 2020 who might be him, but they died earlier in the year, Gazette throwing up nothing as is a search for his death.

 

Confirmed sadly. Also appeared in Only Fools and Horses.

Featured in the Spring–Summer Equity In Memoriam list, which I'm going to cover tonight.

Quite a few off the radar deaths on there!

[Ulitzer95 12,644]

Didn't really know where to put this as there isn't a general entertainment thread and many of these name aren't Hollywood.

I went through the latest (Spring–Summer) issue of Equity magazine in the same way I did SAG-AFTRA.

There's a few names of note who have passed off radar.

Firstly, everyone we already mentioned on here:

Michael Apted (wiki) died 7/1/21
Bobby Ball (wiki) died 28/10/20
Len Barry (wiki) died 5/11/20
Jean Bayless (wiki) died 5/2/21
Helen Blatch (wiki) died 31/12/15 (late announcement)
Johnny Briggs (wiki) died 28/2/21
Jeremy Bulloch (wiki) died 17/12/21
Roy C (wiki) died 16/9/20
Malcolm Cecil (wiki) died 28/3/21
Pauline Chamberlain (IMDb) died 14/1/21
Johnny Clark (wiki) died 28/12/20
Sean Connery (wiki) died 31/10/20
Peter Craze (wiki) died 31/12/20
Norm Crosby (wiki) died 7/11/20
Alan Curtis (wiki) died 18/2/21
Mac Davis (wiki) died 29/9/20
Anthony Dawes (wiki) died 21/1/21
Nathalie Delon (wiki) died 21/1/21
Bobby Dennis (IMDb) died 7/11/20
Jackie Dennis (wiki) died 28/9/20
Sydney Devine (wiki) died 13/2/21
Mark Eden (wiki) died 1/1/21
Rhonda Fleming (wiki) died 14/10/20
Ronald Forfar (wiki) died 28/9/20
John Fraser (wiki) died 6/11/20
Tex Fuller (wiki) died 7/10/20
Peter Goodwright (wiki) died 2/11/20
Dominic Grant of Guys 'n' Dolls (wiki) died 18/11/20
Andy Gray (wiki) died 18/1/21
James Greene (IMDb) died 5/1/21
Patricia Healey (IMDb) died 4/2/21
Tony Hendra (wiki) died 4/3/21
Hal Holbrook (wiki) died 23/1/21
Godfrey James (wiki) died 29/10/19 (late announcement)
Rafer Johnson (wiki) died 2/12/20
Hugh Keays-Byrne (wiki) died 2/12/20
Lynn Kellogg (wiki) died 12/11/20
Rosalind Knight (wiki) died 19/12/20
John le Carré (wiki) died 12/12/20
Gunnel Lindblom (wiki) died 24/1/21
Tiny Lister (wiki) died 10/12/20
Archie Lyndhurst (IMDb) died 22/9/20
Jane Manning (wiki) died 31/3/21
Gerry Marsden (wiki) died 3/1/21
Vivian Matalon (wiki) died 15/8/18 (late announcement)
Helen McCrory (wiki) died 16/4/21
Les McKeown (wiki) died 20/4/21
Frank Mills (wiki) died 11/2/21
Anthony Milner (wiki) died 6/7/15 (late announcement)
Elijah Moshinsky (wiki) died 14/1/21
Basil Moss (wiki) died 28/11/20
Johnny Nash (wiki) died 6/10/20
Trisha Noble (wiki) died 23/2/21
Margaret Nolan (wiki) died 5/10/20
Des O'Connor (wiki) died 14/11/20
Rynagh O'Grady (wiki) died 7/2/21
Nicola Pagett (wiki) died 3/3/21
Geoffrey Palmer (wiki) died 5/11/20
Trevor Peacock (wiki) died 8/3/21
John Pennington (IMDb) died ??/?/20
Molly Peters (wiki) died 30/5/17 (late announcement)
Ronald Pickup (wiki) died 24/2/21
Valerie Pitts (wiki) died 31/3/21
Eileen Pollock (wiki) died 19/12/20
Kay Purcell (wiki) died 23/12/20
James Purify of James & Bobby Purify (wiki) died 22/1/21
Tommy Rall (wiki) died 6/10/20
Marion Ramsey (wiki) died 7/1/21
John Richardson (wiki) died 5/1/21
Paul Ritter (wiki) died 5/4/21
Tanya Roberts (wiki) died 4/1/21
Jimmie Rodgers (wiki) died 18/1/21
Liam Scarlett (wiki) died 16/4/21
Ken Sedd (wiki) died 9/1/21
John Sessions (wiki) died 2/11/20
Billy Joe Shaver (wiki) died 28/10/20
Barbara Shelley (wiki) died 3/1/21
Tony Tanner (wiki) died 8/9/20
Pamela Tiffin (wiki) died 2/12/20
Dave Toole (wiki) died 16/10/20
Peter Vere-Jones (wiki) died 26/1/21
Philip Voss (wiki) died 13/11/20
Lee Wallace (wiki) died 20/12/20
Neville Wanless (wiki) died 4/12/20
Mary Wilson (wiki) died 8/2/21
Barbara Windsor (wiki) died 10/12/20
Frank Windsor (wiki) died 30/9/20
Jimmy Winston (wiki) died 26/9/20

Everyone we haven't mentioned whose deaths were noticed elsewhere:

Hugh Beresford (wiki) died 23/11/20 – operatic baritone, aged 94, got a Guardian QO
Dee Cannon (wiki) died 28/9/20 – acting coach, aged 58 from cancer, got late obits from The Stage and the Hollywood Reporter
Rosanna Carteri (wiki) died 25/10/20 – Italian soprano, aged 89, got a Telegraph QO
Robert P. Cohen (IMDb) died 17/12/20 – American assistant director and co-producer, aged 76 from COVID-19, got a HR obit
Marcus D'Amico (wiki) died 16/12/20 – best known as Michael Tolliver in Tales of the City, aged 55 from pneumonia, HR obit
Louise Dunn (IMDb) died 11/8/20 – aged 81, some minor roles in 60s British films, also Emergency-Ward 10, got a Stage obit
Jenny Dunster (IMDb) died ??/3/21 – dancer on British TV turned agent, aged 71, got a Stage obit
Robert Gard (wiki) died 20/3/21 – operatic tenor, aged 94, a few Aussie obits (his adopted home)
Jacques Godin (wiki) died 26/10/20 – Canadian actor, aged 90 from heart failure, local obits only
Andréa Guiot (wiki) died 15/2/21 – French operatic tenor, aged 93 from COVID-19, a few industry obits
Doreen Hermitage (IMDb) died 7/9/20 – choreographer, died aged 87. Received an obit from The Stage
John Hole died 20/2/21 – theatre writer, producer and director, died aged 81. QO from The Guardian
Arif Hussein (IMDb) died 20/2/21 – actor, screenwriter and producer, aged 63 from COVID-19. QO from The Guardian
Ben Jorgensen (IMDb) died 6/10/20 – actor, known for his role in The Basketball Diaries, aged 51 from suicide, some minor obits
Jean Kitson (IMDb) died 1/7/20 – actress, aged 91, known for her roles in Tales of the Unexpected. Received an obit from The Stage
David Knight (IMDb) died 20/12/20 – American actor, aged 92, received a couple of minor obits. Mentioned on the Forum once by @Clorox Bleachman
Helen Madden died 6/11/20 – UTV presenter, aged in her 70s, received local obits
Madeleine Newbury (IMDb) died 27/9/20 – Actress with credits in The Bill, The Professionals, The Lenny Henry Show, aged 89, got an obit from The Stage
Keith Nichols (wiki) died 21/1/21 – Jazz multi-instrumentalist, aged 75 from COVID-19, QO from The Telegraph
Diana Payne-Myers (IMDb) died 7/11/20 – Dancer, with a few minor acting credits. QO obit from The Guardian
Jennifer Phipps (wiki) died 18/4/19 (late announcement) – Canadian actress, aged 87, local obits only
Alice Playten (wiki) died 25/6/11 (late announcement) – American voice artist, aged 63 from pancreatic cancer, got a NYTimes obit
Eugenia Ratti (wiki) died 14/11/20 – Italian operatic soprano, aged 87, some industry obits
Marvin Roy (IMDb) died 1/7/20 – American magician, aged 95, received a HR obit.
Gary Scott died ??/4/21 – Travel reporter for talkSPORT, LBC etc., received local coverage
Sarah Vernon (IMDb) died 13/1/21 – Actress (mainly in theatre), aged 64, received an obit from The Stage
Pamela Wardel (IMDb) died 20/12/20 – Actress best known for her role in The Avengers, aged 94, death only covered on FB and an Avengers fan forum

And finally those who have pretty much died completely off radar (date of death and ages unknown unless stated):

Mary Chester (IMDb) Appeared in dozens of credits from 1958 to 1999, including multiple appearances in Coronation Street, Z-Cars and Emergency-Ward 10.
Patricia Driscoll (wiki) Irish actress, presumably aged 92–93, married to British actor Duncan Lamont, who died in 1978. Appeared in a bunch of British films in the 1950s and 60s.
Leonard Gregory (IMDb) Played D.S. West in 20 episodes of EastEnders from 1986 to 1989, also minor roles in Z-Cars and The Bill.
Michael Hadley (IMDb) Roles in both film and TV from 1971 to 2017. Uncle of actress Felicity Jones, who mentioned in this December 2020 interview that he had recently died.
Beryl Hall (IMDb) Welsh singer with a few minor acting roles. Known for her cover of You'll Never Walk Alone.
Jennifer Marriott (IMDb) Actress best known for playing Miss Bates in Grange Hill in the early 90s.
Rosemary Miller (IMDb) New Zealand actress who later settled in Britain after marrying English actor Peter Hawkins (died 2006). Presumably aged 91–92, notably appeared in Emergency-Ward 10.
Patrick Monckton (IMDb) Died 16/12/20, aged 73, had roles in film like Keeping Mum and The Dark Crystal, also in TV (The Bill, Poirot etc.)
Patti Nicholls (IMDb) Appeared in Rita, Sue and Bob Too as Sue's Mother
Johnnie St. George (IMDb) Played Edwin in Coronation Street in 1984
Eric Stovell (IMDb) Actor with roles in The Meaning of Life, Poirot and The Count of Monte Cristo (2002)
Neil Sweetmore (IMDb) Wardrobe for Poirot and The Two Ronnies
Alan Tobin (IMDb) Long running appearances in Home and Away, also appeared in Z-Cars and Young Guns
Vimal Vaz (IMDb) Actor with no significant roles, appeared and directed a film called Jade Dragon which seems to have picked up a few awards
Genevieve Walsh (IMDb) Actress with the odd appearance in Life on Mars, Doctors, Casualty, Emmerdale etc.

The Autumn/Winter issue should be along soon so I'll cover that when it comes out.

[YoungWillz 21,050]

Now we know my DDP pick Patricia Driscoll from last year is dead, perhaps here is the date of death under Patricia Lamont - 2 January 2020? https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?surname=lamont&yearOfDeath=2020&advancedSearch=False&IsGrantSearch=True#wills

[Ulitzer95 12,644]

12 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Now we know my DDP pick Patricia Driscoll from last year is dead, perhaps here is the date of death under Patricia Lamont - 2 January 2020? https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?surname=lamont&yearOfDeath=2020&advancedSearch=False&IsGrantSearch=True#wills

Good spot. Must be her as IMDb says her full name was Patricia Noel Driscoll/Lamont.

Out of interest, why did you drop her?

[YoungWillz 21,050]

Just now, Ulitzer95 said:

Good spot. Must be her as IMDb says her full name was Patricia Noel Driscoll/Lamont.

Out of interest, why did you drop her?

Precisely because I saw the Wills thing last year, but could not be absolutely sure - Twitter was alive with folk admiring her longevity until late into 2020! Plus, well, a fresh intake of hopefully uniques!

[YoungWillz 21,050]

4 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Good spot. Must be her as IMDb says her full name was Patricia Noel Driscoll/Lamont.

Also, it might be an idea to use the Find A Will site for dates of death for those others not updated if they can be found. Just if you are contacting IMDB....

[Ulitzer95 12,644]

1 minute ago, YoungWillz said:

Precisely because I saw the Wills thing last year, but could not be absolutely sure - Twitter was alive with folk admiring her longevity until late into 2020! Plus, well, a fresh intake of hopefully uniques!

A travel document on Ancestry says she was born as Patricia Noel Driscoll on 17 Dec 1927 in South Kensington, London.

IMDb/Wiki say the same date/year but in Clonakilty, County Cork, Ireland.

A Google book search turns up an old Who's Who in... type book that says born 17 Dec 1929 in Clonakilty.

I'm inclined to say the travel document is the correct one and she was actually born in England. There is a record on FreeBMD for a Patricia N. Driscoll, born Kensington and registered in the first quarter of 1928.

I will submit this one to IMDb given her prominence. I've already submitted Michael Hadley but I would need more evidence for the others.

[Toast 16,141]

I remember Patricia Driscoll and Picture Book, although when I saw the dates (1955-1957) it seemed impossible.  As I suspected, it was repeated in later years.

The main reason I remember her is that my mum and the very small me thought that "Patricia Driscoll" was a fun name to say.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,197]

I well remember Patrick Monckton. Thanks for your diligence @Ulitzer95 and thanks to Equity for being so thorough.

[arghton 6,745]

Going through leaders of former states and "states":

 

Anjouan: Declared itsself independent in 1997 with Foundi Abdallah Ibrahim as its President. Part of the Comoros Islands.

Foundi Abdallah Ibrahim (President 1997-1999, lived ca. 1918-2018. Died in 2018, obituary claims he was a centenarian)

https://alwatwan.net/societe/nécrologie-disparition-de-fundi-abdallah-ibrahim.html

Abdallah Ibrahim was 80 when he resigned in 1999, giving power to National Coordinator Said Abeid (Leader 1999-2001, unknown if dead or alive) who was later overthrown by a junta lead by Mohamed Bacar (Leader 2001-2008, 1962-) until Anjouan was invaded in 2008 and Bacar went into exile.

 

Ciskei: Nominally independent state in the southeast of South Africa 1972-1994.

 

The state had three Chief Ministers:

Chief T. J. Mabandla (1926-2021) Alive? Chief Minister 1972-1973, according to wikipedia still the Chief of the Bhele tribe.

Lennox Sebe (1926-1994) Chief Minister 1973-1981, President 1981-1990. Overthrown 1990, died 1994.

Oupa Gqozo (1952-) Head of State 1990-1994, apparently still alive despite being on a psychiatric ward due to depression in the 90s, shot on the head in 2001 and burning his face and hands later after mistaking petrol with paraffin and burning his farmhouse.

 

Transkei, another nominally independent state like the above:

Bantu Holomisa (1955-) Head of Government 1987-1994.

 

-----

Republic of Serbian Krajina 1990-1995:

Last (1994-1995) and last living President, Milan Martić (1954-) is serving a 35-year prison sentence in Estonia, will be freed around 2042 if still alive.

 

Autonomous Province of Western Bosnia 1993-1995:

Fikret Abdić (1939-) was the Governor for the whole time the province existed. Arrested 1999 and released 2012, became the mayor of Velika Kladusa, arrested again in 2020 on suspicion of abuse of his office as mayor.

 

Also, is the 1973 acting Colonial Governor of Papua New Guinea William Kearney (1935-) still alive? Same for thirteen-day Head of Govt of Congo-Leopoldville in 1960, Albert Ndele (1930-)

[Toast 16,141]

1 hour ago, arghton said:

 

Ciskei: Nominally independent state in the southeast of South Africa 1972-1994.

............

Transkei, another nominally independent state like the above

 

 

Ciskei and Transkei?  Seriously? 

 

[arghton 6,745]

As mentioned in the Dead of 2021 thread, Presidents of the National Congress of American Indians:

 

1. Napoleon B. Johnson (1891-1973) Cherokee, 1944-1953

2. Joseph R. Garry (1910-1975) Coeur D'Alene, 1953-1959

3. Walter Wetzel (1915-2003, legacy mention) Blackfeet, 1960-1964

4. Clarence Wesley (1914-1988) 1965-1966, San Carlos Apache

5. Wendell Chino (1923-1998) Mescalero Apache, 1967-1968

6. Earl Old Person (1929-2021) Blackfeet, 1969-1970

7. Leon F. Cook (1939-2021) Red Lake Chippewa, 1971-1972

8. Mel Tonasket (1939-) Colville, 1973-1976

9. Veronica Homer Murdock (1944-) Mohave, 1977-1978

10. Edward J. Driving Hawk (1935-2021) Sioux, 1979-1980

11. Joseph DeLaCruz (1937-2000) Quinault, 1981-1984

12. Reuben A. Snake Jr. (1939-1993) Ho-Chunk, 1985-1987

13. John Gonzales (1955-) San Ildefonso Pueblo, 1988-1989

14. Wayne L. Ducheneaux (1936-2012) Cheyenne River Sioux, 1990-1991

15. gaiashkibos (1950-, mentioned in this article with the unfortunately named Dr. Paul Strapon III) Lac Courte Oreilles, 1992-1995

16. W. Ron Allen (1947-) Jamestown S'Klallam, 1996-1999

17. Susan Mastem (1952-) Yurok, 2000-2001

18. Tex Hall (1956-) Mandan/Hidatsa/Arikara, 2002-2005

19. Joe A. Garcia (1953-2023) Ohkay Owingeh, 2006-2009

20. Jefferson Keel (1947-) Chickasaw, 2010-2013

21. Brian Cladoosby (1959-) Swinomish, 2014-