Doctor Who

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

1 hour ago, ladyfiona said:

For the first time ever i'm actually considering watching old who episode BECAUSE of a new who episode.

 

Worth doing. I watched all 4 parts last night (because why not), decent story but our villain only really shows up in Part 4, although he is referenced throughout.

 

17 hours ago, msc said:

Yes.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The villain showed up in a Tom Baker classic and also in the David Tennant era. Each time played by my DDP pick Gabriel Woolf who is in his nineties now and still has one of the most "pissingly terrifying" villain voices in TV history. By coincidence I rewatched the Tennant story (Satan Pit) last week - I didn't know he was coming back, it was just a "not seen that in years" whim.

 

 

The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit is one of my favourite episodes of New Who. Properly creepy and, best of all, even the Doctor isn't sure if he's come face to face with the actual devil at the end. Love that both characters have the same voice actor.

 

15 hours ago, time said:

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Hats off, one of the best episodes of the Nu-Who era.

 

Having said that, I'm preparing for a big anti-climax next week.

 

Edit to ask - There's a UNIT corporal Alice Sullivan (who takes Ruby back to the time window) - have we met her before, and is she any relation to Harry?

 

 

Don't think we've met her before, but I think that's a classic RTD Easter egg. The sort of thing he'll say in the behind-the-scenes that she's actually Harry's granddaughter, it's just not referenced on screen.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

Couldn't post this in my last post as I was posting on my phone and couldn't do spoilers.

 

Spoiler

Something I noticed watching Pyramids of Mars last night is a little teaser that we were given earlier in the season that may have been a clue. In Episode 2 (I think), Sarah Jane says they know the world didn't end in 1911, so can't they just leave Sutekh alone? The Doctor takes them back to 1980 and the world is a wasteland, and explains that time is constantly being rewritten. Ruby asked exactly the same question about Maestro in 1960s London and the Doctor took her to the present day and found the world a nuclear wasteland. Little bit of a call back there methinks..? Trying to get the eagle-eyed Whovian remembering the Pyramids of Mars?

 

[Sod's Law 445]

The one gigantic flaw of this season is that it suffers from how short it is. Every episode has been good as a standalone, but the overarching arc is too rushed and doesn't leave enough time to build up the tension and the mystery (RTD achieved this very well in his first run by dropping in hints throughout the series which became more and more numerous towards the finale episode). As entertaining as this episode was, it felt like it came too soon. There should have been a good 3-4 episodes in between 'Rogue' and 'The Legend of Ruby Sunday'. 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

1 hour ago, Sod's Law said:

The one gigantic flaw of this season is that it suffers from how short it is. Every episode has been good as a standalone, but the overarching arc is too rushed and doesn't leave enough time to build up the tension and the mystery (RTD achieved this very well in his first run by dropping in hints throughout the series which became more and more numerous towards the finale episode). As entertaining as this episode was, it felt like it came too soon. There should have been a good 3-4 episodes in between 'Rogue' and 'The Legend of Ruby Sunday'. 

 

Literally the difference between an 8 and 13 episode season. Totally agree.

[ladyfiona 2,577]

Doctor Who Youtube channel just posted this for those who don't want to rewatch Tom Baker episodes:

 

 

[Sly Ronnie 878]

46 minutes ago, ladyfiona said:

Doctor Who Youtube channel just posted this for those who don't want to rewatch Tom Baker episodes:

 

 

 

Who wouldn't want to watch Tom Baker Doctor Who stories?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(apart from Underworld, Meglos or The Horns of Nimon?)

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

3 hours ago, ladyfiona said:

Doctor Who Youtube channel just posted this for those who don't want to rewatch Tom Baker episodes:

 

 

 

There's a full Tales of the Tardis episode with Ruby and The Doctor looking back on the Pyramids of Mars on BBC4 on Thursday at 8pm, which will show much of the story I believe.

[Mango 168]

My own personal headcanon is that The One Who Waits is, in fact, our very own...

Spoiler

Jimmy Carter

 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

 

Well, this would be fun... 

[ladyfiona 2,577]

I just watched Tales of the Tardis and in doing so watched my first full length Tom Baker and Elizabeth Sladen episode.

 

Now which old who episode next?

 

 

[Bibliogryphon 9,570]

4 hours ago, ladyfiona said:

I just watched Tales of the Tardis and in doing so watched my first full length Tom Baker and Elizabeth Sladen episode.

 

Now which old who episode next?

 

 

 

Suggestions (one for each Doctor)

 

1. The Aztecs

2. Tomb of the Cybermen

3. Carnival of Monsters

4. The Brain of Morbius

5. Caves of Androzani 

6. Revelation of the Daleks

7. The Greatest Show in the Galaxy

 

If you are on X then look up #DoctorWhoRankings2023 which should give you how all the episodes are compared to NuWho. You won't agree with it but it is a snapshot of what fandom thinks

[msc 18,437]

2 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

 

Suggestions (one for each Doctor)

 

1. The Aztecs

2. Tomb of the Cybermen

3. Carnival of Monsters

4. The Brain of Morbius

5. Caves of Androzani 

6. Revelation of the Daleks

7. The Greatest Show in the Galaxy

 

If you are on X then look up #DoctorWhoRankings2023 which should give you how all the episodes are compared to NuWho. You won't agree with it but it is a snapshot of what fandom thinks

 

One per Doctor 

 

1. War Machines (Hartnell in fine form, moves more dynamically than most sixties stories and from experience I find folk in Fiona's position tend to find the old school historicals a bit dull.)

 

2. Tomb of the Cybermen (not exactly spoilt for choice due to the missing episodes elsewhere alas)

 

3. Green Death (it's a six parter but it's quite pacy edited and has everything that became new Who: iconic monsters, the political subtext, unit, the technology Vs humans angle and of course the Doctor/companion relationship breaking up over romance. This is the story that's inspired the entire RTD era.)

 

4. Horror of Fang Rock (doesn't have Sarah but is another Tom horror era classic)

 

5. Earthshock (80s action thriller on a BBC budget, shockingly well directed for the time with several now famous plot twists.)

 

6. Nothing tbh. Mindwarp because while it's loud and doesn't make sense it's shorter and does have Brian Blessed. 

 

7. Remembrance of the Daleks (I'm a huge Greatest Show and Fenric fan but you've got to go with the classic.)

 

My experience of people coming from the current show to classic is the last two McCoy seasons go well (as you can see the joins with the Rose seasons), the Pertwee era can be appreciated because it's where the ideas of modern Who come from, Tom is obviously Tom, and the black and white stuff has more appreciation than I'd expect. It's the Davison era folk struggle with. 

[Bibliogryphon 9,570]

2 minutes ago, msc said:

It's the Davison era folk struggle with.

 

That is my era

 

When I started watching as a fan.

 

However I will agree that it is a very different approach to the Tom Baker era but it does have some classics in it aside from our recommendations

 

Castrovalva is a confident start - though it might need The Keeper of Traken and Logopolis to get it in context

 

Kinda is amazing (and is how Doctor Who should handle ancient gods) and Snakedance is a good sequel

 

I feel that I am alone in loving Terminus but it does have a lot of dark humour.

 

The Five Doctors is a party!!

 

 

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,028]

11 hours ago, ladyfiona said:

Now which old who episode next?

I'll jump on the bandwagon and give you some recommendations for each Doctor for someone who seems to be starting off.

 

1. The Romans (fun historical, this was the serial that made Harntell my favourite Doctor and the 1960s my favourite era)

 

2. The Macra Terror (It's animated if that's a put off but then so many of Troughton's are, most of my favourite's from him are quite long but this is short and snappy and creepy)

 

3. The Time Warrior (one of the most 'new-who' like classic episodes, sontarans at their peak, Sarah Jane's first adventure and it's got Dot Cotton from Eastenders what more could you want)

 

4. The Androids of Tara (My personal favourite of Tom Bakers, medieval sci-fi)

 

5. The Visitation (alien lizards in the 1600s, I'm not a fan of this era as a whole and a lot of my recommendations are against the grain but this one is usually held in quite high regard)

 

6. Vengeance on Varos (dark, gritty and gruesome)

 

7. Delta and the Bannermen (This is my favourite McCoy not for the right reasons mind-you, it's incredibly camp and fun and the writing is atrocious, however I love all the side characters, one I'd recommend after a few drinks)

[msc 18,437]

Personally I think Delta and Castrovalva would send a newcomer to classic Who running away screaming in the opposite direction, but this is why I rarely respond to such queries. 

 

Best thing to do? Pick a Doctor you like the look of, and go for one of the shorter stories which sound interesting to you. 

[Sly Ronnie 878]

16 hours ago, ladyfiona said:

Now which old who episode next?

 

Might as well throw my two pennorth...

These are not my favourites but good examples of Doctor Who in the 1963-89 period:

 

William Hartnell: The Time Meddler

The Hartnell era is the most eclectic of the show's history for good reason - it was feeling it way around and so cast a wide net and some of the stories prefigure much of what was to come. The Time Meddler gets my vote as it introduces the first "Time Lord" other than the Doctor even though the term wouldn't be used until 1969. That Time Lord was Peter Butterworth and he's brilliant in it!

 

Patrick Troughton: The Web of Fear

What a great era of the show, pity a good chunk of it is missing. With all due respect to his predecessor, Pertwee and Baker, I think this period is closest to the "essence" of Doctor Who. The Web of Fear is a terrific story with great characters and a bit of a whodunnit (no pun intended). I recently watched it's semi-prequel The Abominable Snowmen and can understand now why viewers watching might suspect Travers of treachery due to his antics in TAS.

 

Jon Pertwee; Carnival of Monsters

One of the ironies of Pertwee's time was that fine though those UNIT, Earth-spaced stories are, if ever there was a Doctor suited to roaming through space and time it was this one. This is an obscure point but Pertwee was always the best Doctor at the controls of the TARDIS console - so effortlessly commanding. Anyway back to the main point - Carnival of Monsters is a cracking story, writer Robert Holmes at his most whimsical. Love the casual mention of the Daleks.

 

Tom Baker: The Robots of Death

Baker was great throughout his time but his era was very much a game of two halves. Great during the Hinchcliffe era, rather spotty in the period after. This though is prime Baker: If I was to choose just one story for a neophyte and say "This is Doctor Who, this is what it's about", it would be The Robots of Death.

Superb script from the late Chris Boucher. Blink and you miss Baker breaking the fourth wall as well.

 

Peter Davison: Earthshock

My opinion of this story has altered over the years. Loved it in '82, thought it corny in '92 when I watched the video (it fared badly compared to The Caves of Androzani - but my opinion of that story is unchanged "shiny as a precious jewell, untouched by the passing centuries" as Salaz Jek would say!).

However, the wheel turned when I got the DVD in the mid-noughties and now I appreciate it as one of the highlights of 80s Who.

 

Colin Baker: Revelation of the Daleks

Can't believe msc has overlooked this one from the much-maligned "Sixie" (I believe it's called consumer resistance). Actually, whisper it quietly but the Baker II era hold up rather well all things considered. There's a definite edge to it among the Sablom Glitz (pun intended!), certainly compared to New Who's rather watered down era.

Easily though this is the pick of the bunch - Terry Molloy's best Davros story (and indeed the point needs bearing out, this is a Davros story, not a Dalek one) and some great actors in it (Gaunt, Bron  and especially Clive Swift and Mr Jobel). It has lurid, claustrophobic feel throughout. And you've got have a Dalek one innit!

 

Sylvester McCoy: Survival

As a tween when when McCoy came in, the show was on it's uppers and there were low expectations. Season 24 was a little under par shall we say (although I quite like Time and the Rani on a recent-ish re-watch - whereas Whittaker took an absolute age to get into the part, McCoy is straight off the bat and by Paradise Towers he is the Doctor, no question) but it was great afterwards, Seasons 25 & 26 hold up as well as any.

Survival is a great story to finish the first era of the show. Elegiac without it entirely having you believe it is the end. It is by a fair measure the best Ainley Master story and performance (got to have a Master story!) and when you see Rose afterwards, it's like show had never been away.

 

 

[ladyfiona 2,577]

Thanks for all suggestions. I will ponder on it a little. I'm interested in Peter Davison era but only because I have a crush on his younger self and he's David Tennant's father in law, lol.

[ladyfiona 2,577]

Spoilers for series final.

 

Spoiler

I liked the episode but I felt like it needed an extra half an hour. Why is Mrs Flood breaking the fourth wall and looks like a cross between Mary Poppins and the queen from Narnia?

 

So "EVERYBODY LIVES" means this is RTD way of bringing back Gallifrey yes?

 

I need to rewatch that episode. I feel this still doesn't explain the snow in Ruby's memory.

 

8/10.

 

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,028]

Just got back from the big screen, which in-between the 2 episodes feature a nice clip of Millie thanking everyone for coming. Thoughts on the finale below.

 

Spoiler

Positives -

Ruby being an ordinary person is what I wanted, glad she's not half Timelord or anything like that.

Mrs Flood not getting answers and her ending scene

The conclusion to Ruby's personal arc.

The scene with the woman and the spoon, although it felt mostly separate from the rest of the narrative

The Susan Triad answers.

Mel getting possessed and the Doctor realising, reminded me very much of the Sontaran 2-parter in series 4 with Martha

 

Mixed  -

Don't know if I'm a fan of the amount of emotion the Doctor had in this episode and the series as a whole, not that Ncuti isn't good at portraying it .

I liked the explanation of when Sutekh latched on to the TARDIS but it was just a massive exposition dump explaining his plan

The solution to Sutekh killing the universe was good but it did feel a tad 'deus ex machina'

I might have missed something but did Colonel Sullivan who was with Ruby in the time window do anything, she had about 5 seconds of screentime across both episodes, what was the point?

The second Kate got killed I knew that everything would just be undone, so I didn't feel as much tension on how Sutekh would be stopped.

 

Negatives - 

The snow wasn't explained and why the mother wasn't able to be traced by literally anyone including Sutehk was given a vague answer that I'm gonna have to rewatch to try and understand.

I kinda feel like nothing progressed that much in the first half of the episode

How did both Ruby and the time-window have memories of 73 Yards.

edit: oh and Ruby's mum pointing at the sign post is fucking ridiculous.

 

Overall I did enjoy it but was kinda left wanting more after how much I loved the set up last week. Potentially 6/10 but that could change on a rewatch.

 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

Spoiler

Loved it. Loved it, loved it, loved it. I don't care that Ruby's mum was a nobody. I don't care that Sutekh's reason for keeping them alive was nonsense. I don't care that everything was reversed so easily. It was just what I wanted from a season finale. Drama, stakes, answers, the Doctor being the Doctor and a Murray Gold score. What else could I ask for? It wasn't perfect by any means but there was a lot to like.

 

The effects were spectacular, from the crumbling people to the sinister makeup on Sutekh's acolytes to Sutekh himself and the incredible journey through the time vortex. Disney money being well spent. Millie Gibson is brilliant, we know she's going to reappear in Season 2, and I really hope it's not a one-off like Martha in the Sonataran two-parter. Now we've got the mystery of her mother out of the way, let her just be amazing as a companion. She's shown herself to be very capable and never overawed - perfect qualities for a companion. I don't understand how her mother was so elusive but perhaps that was the point? The chances that she was so ordinary and left no trace online are so astronomically small that that in itself made her unusual.

 

I'm so pleased we didn't get an answer to the Mrs Flood mystery. The way she spoke to Cherish before they were both turned to dust was very dismissive of the puny, small human. I'm leaning towards The Rani, but we'll see. Do we assume she's going to be baddie in the Christmas special or are we saving her for Season 2?

 

Or perhaps our Christmas special might see the Doctor look up his granddaughter? He hinted he might. They've got to take the opportunity while they still can, before Carole Ann Ford is too old and infirm to reprise the role in a meaningful way. And, assuming she's a Time Lady, perhaps we finish it with her regenerating into someone new? After all, she's worn this body quite thin. Anyway...I digress into fan fiction.

 

I'll be honest - Lady Fiona's suggestion about Gallifrey crossed my mind while watching it. If he brings Death to Death on Gallifrey, does he fix the murdered Time Lords? We shall see.

 

I feel Gatwa finally got to exercise his acting chops in this episode and inhabit the role of the Doctor. Ingenious, resourceful, resilient and unafraid. He was wonderful. I liked that he was furious about what happened. And I didn't mind his tears at the end - we've had melancholy Doctors before recently in Capaldi and Tennant towards the end. Tennant even screamed out similar to Gatwa and definitely cried (not just when he "Didn't want to Go". Great spending time with Mel, who also proved herself to be useful. Lots of Easter Eggs from previous stories, some I got, some I didn't (need to watch more Classic Who I think!).

 

Agree that Kate's death was always going to be reversed, but frankly when the entirety of creation has been turned to dust, it doesn't take a genius to work out that the Doctor's going to have to reverse it. I think the solution was clever enough to be plausible and as for Deus ex Machina? Maybe a little, but he was fighting a literal Deus so... 

 

I'm happy - can you tell?

 

[time 8,594]

Spoiler

Well, I didn't hate it, but I suspected last week that this would be comparatively disappointing, and I felt that it was.

 

I thought that concluding the Sutekh story and the Ruby's mother storyline in the same episode was a mistake - maybe RTD couldn't think up a decent ending for Ruby's mother and just tacked the resolution onto Sutekh, which made for a bit of a clumsy finale in my view.

 

Talking of which, if Ruby and her mother are just ordinary humans, what's with the snow? When I saw Mrs Flood in her white parka I thought maybe they'd interrupted her East 17 Stars in Their Eyes turn.

 

Another thing I didn't really get was the whole meeting strange women on remote planets and getting a spoon. All that crap in the memory Tardis and not a spare bit of metal?

 

I did like how the Doctor disposed of Sutekh, especially with the moral dilemma involved (not so much the CGI tbh) and especialy the nods to 'classic' Who.

 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

 

Nice little touch. Like father, like daughter.

[Sly Ronnie 878]

Was there any tribute made for William Russell?

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,028]

9 minutes ago, Sly Ronnie said:

Was there any tribute made for William Russell?

Episode 6 was dedicated to his memory.

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,028]

The latest Collection Boxset will be Season 25, sadly the rumours about them doing away with the special trailers are true, but here's what to expect.