World's Oldest

[Hanzem 708]

Yasue Okai has now turned 114. Happy birthday!

[Hanzem 708]

Juan Vicente Perez Mora has surpassed the age of Masazo Nonaka (113 years, 179 days)

He is the 13th oldest validated man ever 

and the oldest living man since 2017 (Israel Kristal's death).

 

 

[Lafaucheuse 4,046]

Interesting fact : in 1904, there was approximately 1 600 000 000 humans on earth and among them, only one survived, Lucille Randon. 

Wonder how many people born in 2022, there will be left in 2140 (if ever there is a year 2140)

[Hanzem 708]

Elise Tavan (born 16 April 1909) died on 7 November aged 113 years, 205 days in France.

Her case was unknown before her death.

 

 

 

 

[drol 11,945]

Robert Young speaking about DL and not in high terms, as you would expect.

[Ulitzer95 12,596]

5 minutes ago, drol said:

Robert Young speaking about DL and not in high terms, as you would expect.

What a total bellend that man is.

Young says we're "spreading misinformation" and "doesn't know where to begin". Actually, I'd like him to begin somewhere, because we genuinely question everything here. We don't spread anything. He's just unhappy that we have nothing positive to say about him.

[Toast 16,140]

Can someone correct the lie, sorry, misinformation about "betting purposes". 

[drol 11,945]

9 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

What a total bellend that man is.

Young says we're "spreading misinformation" and "doesn't know where to begin". Actually, I'd like him to begin somewhere, because we genuinely question everything here. We don't spread anything. He's just unhappy that we have nothing positive to say about him.

For legal reasons, this didn't definitely make me laugh.

[Lafaucheuse 4,046]

people of the 110 club will get so mad, they’re usually just nerds whose sense of humour tends to 0 and whose passion for supercentenarians tends to « clinical obsession » 

[Old Tree 7]

On 17/11/2022 at 16:27, Lafaucheuse said:

plus, there is no goal in doing so. her taxe inheritance were really slow apparently and people proved it. I don't think she faked it tbh. But I can understand why people think so. Anyway, we can all agree that this Russian study is bullshit as the writer wasn't a researcher at all and was linked to the Kremlin which tries to diminish the health and scientist progress of western countries.

 

what I don't understand is why French government don't want to exhume the bodies of both Calment ladies and have an ADN test. It would fixe the thing once and for all.

You are right about the DNA test, but I dont think the French authorities want to expose this. 

 

In the link it explains that they switched because they were hiding their tuberculosis. They started faking signatures so when Jeanne died they were caught out and had to pretend it was Yvonne who died. The inheritance was probably not a big part of the motivation but it was there. Who knows what else was going on.

 

I get that it is an unusual and surprising story, but so is living to about 7 years older than anyone had previously. Lots of other longevity records from Guinness have been debunked, and some were even identity switches too. 

 

The FUD about the Kremlin is straight from the head of Robert Young, so not true at all. Young makes up tons of stuff against Zak to discredit him and then bans him from the 110 club so he cant answer back. You say he is not a researcher but Zak has a PhD unlike Young. That is irrelevant anyway. No special expertise of any kind is needed because it is all just family history. It is the evidence presented that counts, not who the researchers are.

[Ulitzer95 12,596]

Seems Young is now attacking the DeathList because we are asking legit questions about the Calment case. Before recently he never took any notice of us, despite discussing supercentenarian cases for years.

 

Young doesn’t care whether the case is legit or not. He doesn’t care about the truth. If it is ever exposed as fraudulent it will undermine his organisation and the interest in supercentenarians may diminish somewhat. Actual scientists continue to ask questions, are not afraid of scrutiny, and don’t get offended and jump on the defensive when ppl pose such questions. The man is a fraud and his body is a sham.

[DaDeathGuy 202]

37 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Seems Young is now attacking the DeathList because we are asking legit questions about the Calment case. Before recently he never took any notice of us, despite discussing supercentenarian cases for years.

 

Young doesn’t care whether the case is legit or not. He doesn’t care about the truth. If it is ever exposed as fraudulent it will undermine his organisation and the interest in supercentenarians may diminish somewhat. Actual scientists continue to ask questions, are not afraid of scrutiny, and don’t get offended and jump on the defensive when ppl pose such questions. The man is a fraud and his body is a sham.

His organization is very shady about how they "validate" people. And Waclaw, his second in command, is somehow even more vitriolic than Robert though he has quieted as of recently.

[nzak 21]

Lafaucheuse: " but the details that Calment gave about her life in the last interviews of her would be hardly known by anyone even by her own daughter (her meeting with Van Gogh, the name of the person who made her communion dress, the name of her piano teacher who wasn't even in the region when Yvonne was in age of playing piano herself etc…)."

 

In fact, her real interviews which are now public expose her switch very clearly. E.g. when talking about her dress the day of Yvonne's communion, she slipped to talking as Yvonne on several occasions, including: 

"VL: Do you remember well? What were you wearing that day?

MC: A muslin dress, white.

VL: But what were YOU wearing?

MC: Well, I had a pink dress in the fashion of the time, a pretty dress. A fashionable dress, of course!

"

About the piano teacher, it was Cesarie Gachon who was teaching in Arles until she died there in 1916 when Yvonne was 18 years old. By now, the biography of the Calments is very well researched, the truth is known, and the question is if the obvious truth can break such a thick wall of lies.

[Lafaucheuse 4,046]

11 hours ago, Old Tree said:

You are right about the DNA test, but I dont think the French authorities want to expose this. 

 

In the link it explains that they switched because they were hiding their tuberculosis. They started faking signatures so when Jeanne died they were caught out and had to pretend it was Yvonne who died. The inheritance was probably not a big part of the motivation but it was there. Who knows what else was going on.

 

I get that it is an unusual and surprising story, but so is living to about 7 years older than anyone had previously. Lots of other longevity records from Guinness have been debunked, and some were even identity switches too. 

 

The FUD about the Kremlin is straight from the head of Robert Young, so not true at all. Young makes up tons of stuff against Zak to discredit him and then bans him from the 110 club so he cant answer back. You say he is not a researcher but Zak has a PhD unlike Young. That is irrelevant anyway. No special expertise of any kind is needed because it is all just family history. It is the evidence presented that counts, not who the researchers are.

Don’t know What to do of these signature. What was your point ? 

[Toast 16,140]

1 minute ago, Lafaucheuse said:

Don’t know What to do of these signature. What was your point ? 

 

Look at them again.  The signature changes after 1932.

The underlining stroke starts from the 't', right to left before 1932.

After that it starts from the 'C', left to right.

[Lafaucheuse 4,046]

2 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

Look at them again.  The signature changes after 1932.

The underlining stroke starts from the 't', right to left before 1932.

After that it starts from the 'C', left to right.

Didn’t notice that ! Interesting, this whole story is so confusing, I don’t know What to believe now 

[YoungWillz 21,044]

Yer all as bad as each other. Imo.

 

Young's "job" is to do summat re old people. Here there is obsession with old people for the DDP teams, old old stories about old old people.

 

I'm not saying it's wrong for either side. But do we really need another Quantickgate (hilarious as that seems to have been)? 

 

'Mon, better ways to spend your days. I'll bet Lucile Randon doesn't obsess as much...

[msc 18,443]

My signature has changed several times, and I am yet to swap identities. It's down to crap fingers. 

[Ulitzer95 12,596]

35 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Yer all as bad as each other. Imo.

 

Young's "job" is to do summat re old people. Here there is obsession with old people for the DDP teams, old old stories about old old people.

 

I'm not saying it's wrong for either side. But do we really need another Quantickgate (hilarious as that seems to have been)? 

 

'Mon, better ways to spend your days. I'll bet Lucile Randon doesn't obsess as much...

Then I suppose it be wrong if I doubled down ten fold and said Robert Young looks like the sort of person you wouldn't leave alone with your kids.





No fucks given here I'm afraid.

[Toast 16,140]

36 minutes ago, msc said:

My signature has changed several times, and I am yet to swap identities. It's down to crap fingers. 

 

This particular change is quite radical though.  The earlier signatures end with that extended line like a final flourish.  That's absent from the later ones.

The extended C was always present to a lesser degree, but it's more pronounced in the later signatures and would be made in the middle of writing, not at the end.

[Death Impends 7,974]

My signature has vastly changed in recent years

[Ulitzer95 12,596]

57 minutes ago, msc said:

My signature has changed several times, and I am yet to swap identities. It's down to crap fingers. 

Yeah but who changes their signature at 58? 

[Lafaucheuse 4,046]

2 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Yeah but who changes their signature at 58? 

I think it’s nitpicking at this point. We can interpret fact in either ways and the debate could last for decades. The only thing that could end it up once and for all would be to have the Calment ladies exhume to see who is in whose coffin. 

[Old Tree 7]

On 29/11/2022 at 11:11, msc said:

My signature has changed several times, and I am yet to swap identities. It's down to crap fingers. 

 

Jeanne calment was 57 when her signature changed within the space of a year. It had been stable for at least the previous 8 years.

The tail on the t vanishes, but also the loop on the J becomes rounder. These are unusual changes. Also she writes out her full name before the signature settles down to something stable for the next 50 years.

Her family was well off with property and business. She had important financial and legal documents to sign in a country obsessed with bureaucracy. What we see here could be just a small preserved sample of what she had to sign.

Her signature evolved around the time of her marriage, but the idea that she just decided to change her signature at this later point does not add up. On its own this evidence would be revealing but not completely conclusive. In addition you have to look at the other evidence, especially from her testimony.

 

These links give quick summaries for some of what is in the books

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/calmentvalidation/so-what-actually-happened-t26.html

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/calmentvalidation/summary-of-the-latest-evidence-for-the-jeanne-calm-t27.html

 

Looking back through this thread I see that a lot of the FUD about Zak has been repeated. All of it comes from Robert Young and the original validators who have huge personal investments and conflict of interest in this case. They have made up multiple conspiracy theories about Zak while claiming that his hypothesis is a conspiracy theory.  There is no evidence for either of their inconsistent claims. Young even claims that Zak denied the moon landings but he wont show his evidence.

 

By the way it is also not true that Zak thinks all the top supercentenarians are fake as Young likes to say on forums where nobody dares to contradict him.. Zak actually improved the case for Knauss by finding her 1890 census record and other evidence after Young had failed to find it. However there have been many cases where longevity records have been debunked after appearing in the Guinness books, and there are dozens of absurd claims for people living over 125. Any approach to validation of extreme longevity should be "sceptical but not cynical" You have to think up all the ways that it could be fake and then rule them out. If the evidence stacks up in their favour they can be accepted. The GRG and other validation groups do not work that way, at least for up to 122 years.

 

Tanaka and Randon are recent cases. No detailed reports on their validation study have yet been published. As a fan you can consider them innocent until proving guilty, but if you want to rely on records for statistical purposes before the evidence has been presented and reviewed you may get distorted conclusions, as demonstrated by past experiences.

 

[arghton 6,731]

Quote

Lots of other longevity records from Guinness have been debunked, and some were even identity switches too. 

Always wondered how Guinness verifies all these "World's Oldest somethings", for example Shigechiyo Izumi who was once confirmed by Guinness World Records to be the world's oldest man at 120. Another case is that Texas old cat owner who I'm 99% sure is a massive fraudster, same for the "verified" oldest dog that lived 1910-1939. They should just stick to verifying the longest/heaviest/smallest item/etc...  "most hotdogs eaten in two minutes" stuff.