President (recumbent) Barack Obama

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Some bitter Louisianans now want to secede and have launched a formal petition: https://petitions.wh...rnment/1wrvtngl

 

Some very loony comments attached to this article. Theirs is a sad little world of ignorance, extremism and completely irrational paranoia. Pathetic:

http://www.wnd.com/2...tion-to-secede/

 

They need 25 000 signatories by Dec 7 to be taken seriously. Apparently a few other southern states have decided to follow suit and have launched their own petitions over the last few hiurs as well. Despite all of that patriotism bullsh*t, the United States may no longer be so united after all.

 

PS - apparently Louisiana is oil rich, so on the million to one chance the secessionist movement gains traction, things could heat up, knowing America's unbridled lust for that material...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Discussion threads are ablaze with it. Here is an example of Yanks chomping over it: http://www.ar15.com/..._petition_.html

 

Elsewhere, some southerners are openly saying that they have never really felt American. Even if/when the secession plan flops, it is interesting that they are openly speaking like this. Is it due to the Tea Party's influence or are there other factors at play?

[Rotten Ali 600]

Peoples Democratic Republic of Louisiana?

Makes me LOL, most of those adding their names to the petition are from outside the state.

[charon 4,943]

Bit late but I laughed at this..

 

 

It's been a tight race. But it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. And like in any marathon, I'm picking the guy from Kenya.

[the_engineer 1,415]

Discussion threads are ablaze with it. Here is an example of Yanks chomping over it: http://www.ar15.com/..._petition_.html

 

Elsewhere, some southerners are openly saying that they have never really felt American. Even if/when the secession plan flops, it is interesting that they are openly speaking like this. Is it due to the Tea Party's influence or are there other factors at play?

 

I can see this happening one day . When America's economy collapse's the USA will split like the soviet union.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Discussion threads are ablaze with it. Here is an example of Yanks chomping over it: http://www.ar15.com/..._petition_.html

 

Elsewhere, some southerners are openly saying that they have never really felt American. Even if/when the secession plan flops, it is interesting that they are openly speaking like this. Is it due to the Tea Party's influence or are there other factors at play?

 

I can see this happening one day . When America's economy collapse's the USA will split like the soviet union.

 

Yes, years ago I tried to discuss this on another forum. I have never been to the USA but Americans often emphasise that there is a completely different culture in different parts of the country. Also, it seems that even today there is a *lot* of bitterness over the Civil War so I politely asked if maybe it would have been better if the north and south had gone their separate ways (I made it clear I didn't want to touch on the slavery issue at all). Despite that, they nearly bit my head off for even suggesting they might break up one day or that some parts of the nation might even be better off if they were to secede.

 

Now it seems they can bring themselves to talk about it.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

15 states have secession petitions now.

 

Anyway, bugger America. They are the past. According to this morning's news, this is China's make or break decade.

[Windsor 2,233]

15 states have secession petitions now.

 

Anyway, bugger America. They are the past. According to this morning's news, this is China's make or break decade.

 

And they accuse the Democrats of being un-American...

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Meanwhile, the Americans are trying to bully us into buying more military equipment from them. No doubt they will succeed in getting their way. They always do. :(

 

 

http://www.abc.net.a...pending/4365492

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

The secession story is now "trending" on msn.com, so the news is going mainstream. This will cause some interesting reactions.

[angryGreatness 96]

I say let the redneck states secede if they think they can. Mississippi is has the life-quality of a 3rd world country. Plus, judging by current birth trends, the South will start to vote Democrat as soon as blacks start to outnumber whites, which will happen sooner than you think.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Mississippi is has the life-quality of a 3rd world country.

 

Okay, so why is that? Why do some southern states like Mississippi, belonging to the world's only super-power nation, have such poor life quality, standards of education and so on. If they are on the Mississippi River delta they should, at the very least, have lots of good natural resources to utilise down there. Can you or someone explain this?

[angryGreatness 96]

Mississippi is has the life-quality of a 3rd world country.

 

Okay, so why is that? Why do some southern states like Mississippi, belonging to the world's only super-power nation, have such poor life quality, standards of education and so on. If they are on the Mississippi River delta they should, at the very least, have lots of good natural resources to utilise down there. Can you or someone explain this?

 

 

Part of the reason is cultural. Mississippi is the poorest state, but it is also the most religious, has the lowest amount of high school graduates, and are also the most obese. People in the south don't view themselves as poor as long as there's a roof over their head, food in their gut, a Bible on their shelf, and a Republican in office.

 

If you asked a Southerner, they'll probably tell you it's due to history. The Civil War left the South in ruins, and the Industrial Revolution made it worse as it almost completely skipped over the South.

 

They also don't have major metropolitan areas, with exceptions of Atlanta and New Orleans, and as such jobs are scarce. The Mississippi River Delta is more affluent than other areas as you said (and also more liberal) but only relatively. There is essentially no middle class in the South, everyone is either dirt poor or filfthy rich.

 

As for how it can be so poor while the USA has become so rich, I guess that's a flaw of the Federalist system. Even when the nation does well, the Southern states will make stupid economic decisions and remain poor.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

In response to your first para, so the "Protestant work ethic" doesn't apply to fundamentalists? Interesting.

 

In response to your second para, the Civil War was a long time ago now. It is poor to use that as an excuse in this day and age, IMHO. They need to start looking forward and let go of the past grudges, including the racial issues.

 

Thanks for responding. That divide between rich and poor must cause a lot of tension at times. Is rebuilding New Orleans creating jobs and helping to kick-start the economy?

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Also, I once heard someone state that the US likes having a very poor underclass as they are easy to recruit as cannon fodder for the military. Also, having a poor class desperate for work helps keep wages low in an uber-capitalist economy.

[Magere Hein 1,400]

Also, I once heard someone state that the US likes having a very poor underclass as they are easy to recruit as cannon fodder for the military. Also, having a poor class desperate for work helps keep wages low in an uber-capitalist economy.

 

That bit about "a poor class desperate for work" is certainly true, but I'm not so sure about cannon fodder. After all, the US army and navy don't need much of that, and the USAF none. States have been recruiting enlisted men (and women, nowadays) from the lowest economic strata for as long as there are armies knocking about. Strangely enough, the military has also been one of the few paths open for the upwardly mobile through the ages, much as sports are today.

 

regards,

Hein

[Bibliogryphon 9,588]

Also, I once heard someone state that the US likes having a very poor underclass as they are easy to recruit as cannon fodder for the military. Also, having a poor class desperate for work helps keep wages low in an uber-capitalist economy.

 

It is not only the US that this statement would be true for!

[our Sydney 11]

As said above the southern states tend to have few large centres of population, generally the population is in small relatively isolated communities, the net result it is hard and expensive to educate the population to a high level. If your community is of 600 odd people, small village size, and is 30 miles from its nearest neighbour then your likely total school age population in a community is around 100 at any time, split across 12 years of education you may at any moment only have 7 maybe 10 students in any academic year, how do you offer a suitable range of subjects to those students? even if you bus them in from 10 surrounding communities to a central collage you do not really solve the problem, but you have added a huge cost to a day’s schooling. Add to this that you cannot really support large scale industry on the basis of say 450 work age individuals and you can begin to see why it is relatively hard to get much wealth into the southern states, The tradition of "small government" in the US just makes this worse, without a large public sector offering low skill high security jobs it is very difficult to get any wealth generated by the major industrial states in the North of the US into the relatively poor uneducated south. The really big irony is that the communities that could most benefit from a large public sector are those most likely to vote against them, talk about turkeys voting for Christmas!

Best regards

Syd

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Yes but rural areas of Australia face exactly the same issues and I believe rural Australians to have a higher level of education than southern Americans. I agree that the lack of public service is a problem though as, for all its many, many faults, working for a government office can be a good entry to a career path for someone who would otherwise have trouble finding work after school.

 

In addition, many, if not most, people from regional areas eventually gravitate to the big cities in search of work. This isn't just an Aussie phenomenon: in France for instance, Paris is sucking all the jobs out of the industrial north.

 

Maybe the internet will resolve these problems or maybe it will just allow these insular groups to form larger like-minded communities.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Texas' petition is the first to reach the threshold figure required for a presidential response:

 

http://m.dallasvoice...r-transfer=true

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/11/12/3908795/commentary-politician-wants-texas.html

 

The other petitions are gaining traction, too:

 

http://miamiherald.t...ma-victory.html

 

Being reported by the Beeb now:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20301477

[angryGreatness 96]

Texas' petition is the first to reach the threshold figure required for a presidential response:

 

http://m.dallasvoice...r-transfer=true

http://www.kansascit...ants-texas.html

 

The other petitions are gaining traction, too:

 

http://miamiherald.t...ma-victory.html

 

Being reported by the Beeb now:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-20301477

 

Keep in mind, petitions to force the government to disclose everything it knows about UFO's, and look into various insane conspiracy theories, have hit the 25,000 mark much quicker.

[Body Snatcher 44 107]

Yes but rural areas of Australia face exactly the same issues and I believe rural Australians to have a higher level of education than southern Americans. I agree that the lack of public service is a problem though as, for all its many, many faults, working for a government office can be a good entry to a career path for someone who would otherwise have trouble finding work after school.

 

In addition, many, if not most, people from regional areas eventually gravitate to the big cities in search of work. This isn't just an Aussie phenomenon: in France for instance, Paris is sucking all the jobs out of the industrial north.

 

Maybe the internet will resolve these problems or maybe it will just allow these insular groups to form larger like-minded communities.

 

I think it has more to do with population management. Large populations are easier to control if they are kept stupid and angry - with authority figures (politicians, media personalities, religious figures etc) subtly removing rights and opportunities whilst blaming and directing the anger at the other guys. I think that this happens most blatantly in the US. I think it depends on how gullible a society is or is willing to be.

I watched the Fox News coverage of the election (yes thats right, I'm not ashamed of it ) and after the uncontrollable laughter subsided I grew concerned that what I find absurd others may take as gospel.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Texas' petition is the first to reach the threshold figure required for a presidential response:

 

http://m.dallasvoice...r-transfer=true

http://www.kansascit...ants-texas.html

 

The other petitions are gaining traction, too:

 

http://miamiherald.t...ma-victory.html

 

Being reported by the Beeb now:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-20301477

 

Keep in mind, petitions to force the government to disclose everything it knows about UFO's, and look into various insane conspiracy theories, have hit the 25,000 mark much quicker.

Thanks. Good to have some perspective around this. Nevertheless, as an outsider, It seems that the USA has always been an overtly patriotic/nationalistic society, so it is interesting some, even if a small minority are talking openly now about a desire to break away. It will be interesting to see if this is a wider reaching change in attitude and if it has any longer term cultural ramifications once the anger and emotion over losing the election is over or whether all of this will just be forgotten in a few weeks. It will lso be interesting to see how the authority figures play it.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Another thought: we have the "School of the Air" for the most isolated rural kids. Is there an equivalent scheme in the USA? I am guessing not....

http://www.questacon.edu.au/indepth/clever/school_of_the_air.html

[our Sydney 11]

Hi Mr locker

I think Australia is an exceptional case as regards educating it's population, a very high value has always been placed on a good education in Australia, and particularly distance learning. The various radio linked schools and collages demonstrated what could be done, without the success of which we in the UK would never have had the Open University. I think that the extreme remoteness of some Australian farms and stations actually created the drive for these distance learning solutions, small schools could not be sustained as some years there would be no children of school age in a 1000 square miles of country. I think also the nature of the Australian environment forced a lifestyle that could not fall back on subsistence exploitation of the natural environment (logging, fishing, hunting, subsistence mining) the way the southern US can and forced Australians toward white coller jobs. This in turn has forced a proper welfare system on Australia, also higher level of public sector jobs and more realistic levels of service industry wages, particularly in catering and tourism.

Best regards

Syd