Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[The Old Crem 3,605]

On 22/11/2023 at 20:45, ThereWillBeDeaths7 said:

It's not impossible, but important is that Yesilgöz and the VVD have said only yesterday: we won't make Wilders PM / won't join him in a coalition if his party is the largest.

 

GL-PvdA will also have difficulty to reach a majority, even with GL-PvdA, NSC and D66 they would need multiple small parties.

 

This will be a long formation once again, in which even a new VVD coalition isn't completely out of the question if the PVV can't get it done.

Looks like the PVV will lead the next dutch Government.

[ThereWillBeDeaths7 722]

1 hour ago, The Old Crem said:

Looks like the PVV will lead the next dutch Government.

It looks like it will be a political experiment: PVV (Wilders), VVD, NSC and BBB have finished their talks for a coalition; their factions in parliament are reading the agreement as we speak and can suggest amendments, after that we'll probably get a government again... But who exactly that will be, is still the question.

 

All four party leaders have said they will stay in parliament, while former coalition talks moderator Ronald Plasterk (66) has been rumoured to become Prime Minister. He is a member of the Labour party (PvdA) but has steered to the right of his party in columns during the last couple of years. If he becomes PM, he'll probably have to leave the PvdA.

 

Other people who might join the cabinet at the moment are Fleur Agema (PVV), Mona Keijzer (BBB) and Sophie Hermans (VVD).

 

Doesn't look like the cabinet will be filled with the brightest bunch of political talent in the Netherlands, but we're gonna have to wait and see.

[TQR 14,395]

It turns out the Tories think rainbow lanyards are more dangerous than ninja swords.

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

 

 

 

The Minister for "Common Sense" everyone

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

 

 

 

Gillian "Great Fucking Job" Keegan

[TQR 14,395]

I am absolutely boiling with rage at this story: Man told he is not British after 42 years in UK. I urge you to read it. These are the fucking sickening depths the Tory cunts at the Home Office will sink to. He’s had a mortgage, kids, paid taxes since the 70s. He’s been here longer than ex-chancellor Nadhim Zahawi.

 

There's a GoFundMe page to help out his legal case, just putting that out there.

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

 

[The Old Crem 3,605]

It will blow many people in the UK minds that the right wing Tories will easily win the young vote in Canada. And the non Muslim BAME vote as well going by polls. 

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

Ah well if it' working in Canada.....

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

From an actual Tory Parlimentary Candidate.....

 

 

 

[The Old Crem 3,605]

4 minutes ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

From an actual Tory Parlimentary Candidate.....

 

 

 

and in a Tory held seat albet one Labour will need to win to form the government 

[TQR 14,395]

2 minutes ago, The Old Crem said:

and in a Tory held seat albet one Labour will need to win to form the government 

 

Yeah, I heard that. Even if they get 550 seats elsewhere, Labour are fucked if they don't win Milton Keynes Central.

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

2 hours ago, TQR said:

I am absolutely boiling with rage at this story: Man told he is not British after 42 years in UK. I urge you to read it. These are the fucking sickening depths the Tory cunts at the Home Office will sink to. He’s had a mortgage, kids, paid taxes since the 70s. He’s been here longer than ex-chancellor Nadhim Zahawi.

 

There's a GoFundMe page to help out his legal case, just putting that out there.

 

 

He also served on a jury, if I was a no-win no-fee lawyer I'd check if that jury convicted and then find the "criminal" if they did.

[YoungWillz 21,046]

I'm going to punt in here that Starmer really hasn't done himself any favours with his black and white photo there, making him even greyer than John Major.

 

Waving about vague policies this morning, he actually made Labour look weak and lacking in ambition for the country.

 

Most people want change, you don't get much change given what he has said. Maybe the actual election will make him look better, but he needs to show drive, determination, ambition and a radical change of direction. Also, from what I saw this morning before nipping out, where's the humour?

[maryportfuncity 10,646]

11 minutes ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

From an actual Tory Parlimentary Candidate.....

 

 

 

 

 

So, anyway - about six weeks back I did a speaking gig, the location of which was Tory heartland and the mob who were hosting me were all male, succesful, mature to say the least and filled the car park with some impressive wheels. Given that the gig was preceded by a two course meal I got loads of time to listen in to the conversation which largely centred on the woeful state of politics (i.e., as instinctive Tories they felt distanced from the current government and also felt their own experience of life gave them insights into where it's all gone to shit). A common agreement was that their own kind - successful, self-made etc. - aren't represented in politics and the current candidates are largely public school-uni-activist types who then get offered a seat to fight for.  Yer man Luk is close to such a specimen albeit state schooled and one almost proper job on the CV. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Luk

 

Hard to call this because it's a new constituency 

[The Old Crem 3,605]

36 minutes ago, TQR said:

 

Yeah, I heard that. Even if they get 550 seats elsewhere, Labour are fucked if they don't win Milton Keynes Central.

Lol I mean seats tend to move in patterns so if they don’t win that they won’t probably be winning the seats with similar demographics across southern England.

[time 8,602]

26 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

I'm going to punt in here that Starmer really hasn't done himself any favours with his black and white photo there, making him even greyer than John Major.

 

Waving about vague policies this morning, he actually made Labour look weak and lacking in ambition for the country.

 

Most people want change, you don't get much change given what he has said. Maybe the actual election will make him look better, but he needs to show drive, determination, ambition and a radical change of direction. Also, from what I saw this morning before nipping out, where's the humour?

Even Major won a General Election, so there's still hope.

[The Old Crem 3,605]

36 minutes ago, maryportfuncity said:

 

 

He also served on a jury, if I was a no-win no-fee lawyer I'd check if that jury convicted and then find the "criminal" if they did.

Jury Service is based on eligibility to vote. As Commonwealth citizens can vote in the UK they can also serve on a jury. So he didn’t serve illegally.

[YoungWillz 21,046]

2 minutes ago, time said:

Even Major won a General Election, so there's still hope.

I don't think it is a matter of hope, I think the electorate are done with the current bunch.

 

Major was at that point untainted and was up against Kinnock, who the people had already rejected twice. Question is, would the English and Welsh on whose votes this election really turns swing behind another party in such numbers as to make a difference to what is expected? A significant drift from both the main parties could make this very interesting - I feel there's not enough in Starmer's messaging yet to hang on to what he has now.

 

'Mon the Binface!

 

 

[TQR 14,395]

Look on the bright side: With Starmer as PM, there’ll still be satire, still be a target for joke memes, still be things to moan about and criticise. But, the country won’t be being run (into the ground) by corrupt, dangerous pieces of shit.

[time 8,602]

21 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

I don't think it is a matter of hope, I think the electorate are done with the current bunch.

 

Major was at that point untainted and was up against Kinnock, who the people had already rejected twice. Question is, would the English and Welsh on whose votes this election really turns swing behind another party in such numbers as to make a difference to what is expected? A significant drift from both the main parties could make this very interesting - I feel there's not enough in Starmer's messaging yet to hang on to what he has now.

 

'Mon the Binface!

 

 

Absolutely  - I think they've been done with them for a long time.

 

I remember being polled prior to the Major election ('92) and was asked if people should view it as Major's first election or the Tories fourth; evidently people regarded it as Major's first (not sure what effect previous Kinnock rejections had as he was up against Thatcher), but I doubt Sunak will be given the same consideration. Unfortunately, despite the Tories being in an extremely vulnerable position, Starmer seems reluctant to press home the advantage. The progressive vote will once again be split three ways but hopefully (as we've seen with the council elections) tactical voting will be effected where it will be most useful. 

[YoungWillz 21,046]

2 minutes ago, time said:

Absolutely  - I think they've been done with them for a long time.

 

I remember being polled prior to the Major election ('92) and was asked if people should view it as Major's first election or the Tories fourth; evidently people regarded it as Major's first (not sure what effect previous Kinnock rejections had as he was up against Thatcher), but I doubt Sunak will be given the same consideration. Unfortunately, despite the Tories being in an extremely vulnerable position, Starmer seems reluctant to press home the advantage. The progressive vote will once again be split three ways but hopefully (as we've seen with the council elections) tactical voting will effected where it will be most useful. 

I think you are right.

 

I don't think Kinnock was ever really seen as PM material, imo, but the 92 election was his to lose - and lose it he did. IIRC, there was still a perception that Labour still hadn't shaken off the huge Union control and their offer was seen as a bit wishy washy on what mattered to people.

 

Starmer is kind of promising a steady hand, a return to early New Labour. But it's probably what he's not promising (probably because he can't as he inherits a broken country) that matters. If he can show that dentists will return to providing a service, the NHS will start to work again, that prices will go down along with energy prices and deal with climate change and the environment while building homes - if he can show at least a bit of that will happen in his first term, he might be ok.

 

I'm not seeing it yet. He's definitely PM material though and he does look like one in waiting. If his pitch doesn't chime, then we are looking at an electorate which might look elsewhere. I never underestimate the power of the hoi polloi to self-flagellate themselves into more shitty Governments.

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

1 hour ago, YoungWillz said:

I'm going to punt in here that Starmer really hasn't done himself any favours with his black and white photo there, making him even greyer than John Major.

 

Waving about vague policies this morning, he actually made Labour look weak and lacking in ambition for the country.

 

Most people want change, you don't get much change given what he has said. Maybe the actual election will make him look better, but he needs to show drive, determination, ambition and a radical change of direction. Also, from what I saw this morning before nipping out, where's the humour?

True but given who he's up against it probably won't bite him too much.

[msc 18,469]

16 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

I think you are right.

 

I don't think Kinnock was ever really seen as PM material, imo, but the 92 election was his to lose - and lose it he did. IIRC, there was still a perception that Labour still hadn't shaken off the huge Union control and their offer was seen as a bit wishy washy on what mattered to people.

 

Starmer is kind of promising a steady hand, a return to early New Labour. But it's probably what he's not promising (probably because he can't as he inherits a broken country) that matters. If he can show that dentists will return to providing a service, the NHS will start to work again, that prices will go down along with energy prices and deal with climate change and the environment while building homes - if he can show at least a bit of that will happen in his first term, he might be ok.

 

I'm not seeing it yet. He's definitely PM material though and he does look like one in waiting. If his pitch doesn't chime, then we are looking at an electorate which might look elsewhere. I never underestimate the power of the hoi polloi to self-flagellate themselves into more shitty Governments.

1992 was insane to look back at. Major had a hung parliament or majority in more than every 3 in 4 polls taken after Major replaced Thatcher, yet this was ignored for the obvious Labour win by the media, politicians and people alike. Afterwards the narrative was "the polls were wrong" when really Crem could have analysed them better than the media did at the time. 

 

Starmers policies are very Blair 1997. Gordon Brown believes that the public don't trust Labour to spend until they've been in office for a year or two to prove all the Tory press propaganda wrong.  

 

Oh btw you are probably aren't seeing yet what he can do in a first term because we're not in that first term yet. Unless you're a time traveller all along in which case a billion pounds, a pet dinosaur and a chat with my late grandfather for your old mate msc, thanks. 

[YoungWillz 21,046]

17 minutes ago, msc said:

 Oh btw you are probably aren't seeing yet what he can do in a first term because we're not in that first term yet. Unless you're a time traveller all along in which case a billion pounds, a pet dinosaur and a chat with my late grandfather for your old mate msc, thanks. 

Not sure I actually said that - what he needs to do is promise something that will happen in his first term that will make a difference to Joe and Jane Bloggs and the kiddies. I don't think that would take much for people to swing behind him. If he's got a vision for where Britain goes, cool for the next election, but fannying around with amorphous thinkspeak won't cut it imo.

 

Last time out, Labour overpromised to the extent that they weren't believed. Underpromising could be his downfall. 

 

And he definitely needs a humour transplant.

 

Raving Loonies for the win!