Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

Worrying noises about Islamists behind the coup. There are US weapons on Turkish soil this cannot end good!

[Cat O'Falk 3,287]

Flight radar showing no call signs for planes over Ataturk airport. What does that mean Cat O'F?

It seems Turkish Airlines are landing however foreign airlines including British Airways, KLM and Lufthansa are turning back mid-flight.

[RoverAndOut 3,472]

Plenty of support on the streets for Erdogan. Seems the military have possibly run into more opposition than expected from the public. Hardly surprising given how well the AKP did in last year's elections. Concern is that if the coup is subdued it only strengthens Erdogan's hand and allows him to seize ever more power in the name of a 'state of emergency'. Can't see this ending well, but I think the government will hold on.

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

 

Flight radar showing no call signs for planes over Ataturk airport. What does that mean Cat O'F?

It seems Turkish Airlines are landing however foreign airlines including British Airways, KLM and Lufthansa are turning back mid-flight.

 

Looks like a plane load of holiday makers from Manchester are about to land in Dalaman presumably oblivious to what's going on. If no one has turned up to work baggage retrieval there'll be riots.

[RoverAndOut 3,472]

Apparently the military in Turkey view there roles as upholding secular democracy on behalf of the countries founder - which is why they have so many coups. Police work for the government - ,military work the public. This could get interesting but will likely be over in days

 

I've been doing a little basic background reading on this given the events of tonight. I found this quote relating to the 1997 military coup (the last time it happened) when they removed the sitting Islamist Prime Minister, from one of the generals who organised it:

 

In Turkey we have a marriage of Islam and democracy. (...) The child of this marriage is secularism. Now this child gets sick from time to time. The Turkish Armed Forces is the doctor which saves the child. Depending on how sick the kid is, we administer the necessary medicine to make sure the child recuperates.

 

Cevik Bir, the man who gave the above quote, was arrested by the government in 2012 for his role in the 1997 coup. Incidentally, Recep Tayyip Erdogan was Mayor of Istanbul at the time of the '97 coup and was arrested soon afterwards and banned from politics for 5 years, during which time he formed the AKP.

[Cat O'Falk 3,287]

 

 

Flight radar showing no call signs for planes over Ataturk airport. What does that mean Cat O'F?

It seems Turkish Airlines are landing however foreign airlines including British Airways, KLM and Lufthansa are turning back mid-flight.

 

Looks like a plane load of holiday makers from Manchester are about to land in Dalaman presumably oblivious to what's going on. If no one has turned up to work baggage retrieval there'll be riots.

 

Manchester, Birmingham and Gatwick flights all landed within the last hour.

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

Boris will calm things down. Here is his opinion of President Erdogan which appeared in the Spectator:

There was a young fellow from Ankara

Who was a terrific wankerer

Till he sowed his wild oats

With the help of a goat

But he didn’t even stop to thankera.

[msc 17,762]

Turkish coup went so badly it might as well have been run by Angela Eagle.

[Toast 14,844]

Boris will calm things down. Here is his opinion of President Erdogan which appeared in the Spectator:

There was a young fellow from Ankara

Who was a terrific wankerer

Till he sowed his wild oats

With the help of a goat

But he didn’t even stop to thankera.

 

Boris is the politician I would most like to go out on the piss with

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

The Turkish Government isn't exactly going for the one nation approach in considering the restoration of the death penalty https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara?page=with:block-578a019be4b073c22786c8ee#block-578a019be4b073c22786c8ee

[Deathray 2,933]

Absolutely ducking useless squaddies

[msc 17,762]

Random thought. There's only been 3 times in history there have been 6 living US Presidents. 1861-2 (Van Buren, Tyler, Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan, Lincoln), 1993-4 (Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton) and 2001-4 (Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2).

 

We're about six months away from making it four times in history.

[msc 17,762]

Looking at UK Prime MInisters, 6 is again the record, but it's happened far more often:

 

• 1768 - Duke of Newcastle, Earl Bute, George Grenville, Marquess of Rockingham, Pitt the Elder, Duke of Grafton
• 1770 - Earl Bute, George Grenville, Marquess of Rockingham, Pitt the Elder, Duke of Grafton, Lord North
• 1783-92 - Earl Bute, Duke of Grafton, Lord north, Earl Shelburne, Duke of Portland, Pitt the Younger
• 1834-44 - Addington, Goderich, Wellington, Grey, Melbourne, Peel
• 1923 - Rosebery, Balfour, Asquith, Lloyd George, Bonar Law, Baldwin
• 1924 - Rosebery, Balfour, Asquith, Lloyd George, Baldwin, MacDonald
• 1964-5 - Churchill, Attlee, Eden, MacMillan, Douglas-Home, Wilson
• 1976-7 - Eden, MacMillan, Douglas-Home, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan
• 1979-86 - MacMillan, Douglas-Home, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher
• 1990-95 - Douglas-Home, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major

 

We're currently at 5, but with the relatively youth of the current lot (Major is oldest at 73), and political instability in the future, I think we can break it in the future.

 

 

Nothing like the weekend for some useless information.

[RoverAndOut 3,472]

Random thought. There's only been 3 times in history there have been 6 living US Presidents. 1861-2 (Van Buren, Tyler, Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan, Lincoln), 1993-4 (Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton) and 2001-4 (Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2).

 

We're about six months away from making it four times in history.

All fairly explanatory though. Obviously it's not surprising that it could happen three times since the 90s given the increases in life expectancy, especially given the healthcare available to ex-Presidents.

 

The 1861-62 one is a little more surprising but not so much when you dig beyond the names. Van Buren, Tyler, Fillmore, Pierce and Buchanan all served a single term of office, which obviously reduced the distance in time needed.

 

Comparing the actual lengths of time the presidencies cover is interesting. Van Buren took office in 1837, Tyler died in 1862, so at that point 6 presidents covering 25 years were alive (2 more in that period had died as well!) Nixon took office in 1969 and died in 1994 so at that time, 6 presidents covering 25 years were alive again. Ford took office in 1974 and Reagan died in 2004, so 6 presidents were alive covering 30 years. Assuming Bush and Carter make it to 2017, at that point 6 presidents would be alive covering no less than 40 years and counting, further emphasising how much longer people are living. Of course, Carter is significantly inflating that stat, once he dies we jump down 12 years for Bush, and a further 4 for Clinton once he goes. We'd need a couple of single termers in quick succession to get back up to 6 anytime soon. And 7 looks beyond us unless the next president is swiftly dispatched of (though not through death of course).

 

Anyway msc, I'm sure you knew all that already...

[YoungWillz 19,067]

That's two days on the trot I've heard English MPs say what the Scottish people want and don't want.

 

Angela Eagle on Marr yesterday quite flatly declaimed that the Scottish people didn't want a second independence referendum. Now some English Tory stands up and says the Scottish people want to keep nuclear weapons.

 

These are the same politicians who said the British people didn't really want to leave the EU.

 

These two major parties will continue to shaft the people of the UK. They know best, remember? Rotten to the core the lot of them.

[Deathray 2,933]

To be fair they are right when it comes to Trident. Only an idiot or a traitor would wish to abolish it.

[msc 17,762]

If it's so important to keep, they could move it down south. Think of the jobs it'll create in, say, Portsmouth.

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

On both posts above. 1 - accept lots of politicians are twats but why are they in politics? It can't be for the money really. And what is the alternative to directly elected representatives? It comes back down to if you don't like something get off your arse and do something about it (and I take my hat off to Nigel Farage for that even thought he is a reprehensible weasel - and i'll die for his right to be a reprehensible weasel).

2 - under what circumstances is the UK going to use one of it's 4 warheads? And anyway they need the US's permission to use them - and the US could block them being used. If Prime Minister May wants to show she's got balls it would be loads cheaper to dangle these in front of the Chinese.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmVdV_zIEAAfeIB.jpg

[Sir Creep 7,013]

What's this horseshjit of Queen sending 'Statements of Frustration' to the Trump campaign. You know what we send in America? A Cease and Desist ORDER signed by a judge. It's not that difficult. Who is managing Queen's affairs these days?

SC

http://www.nme.com/news/queen/95131

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

Relatives just left Turkish airspace after flying out in the middle of the coup attempt last week. I honestly didn't expect them to go and good to see them on their way back. The threat of terrorism didn't come into it for me when thinking about going to Turkey; let's face it you can get blown up or shot nearly anywhere these days. But Government crackdowns and the elimination of the opposition make me think again. On the one hand to creates an uneasy and potentially dangerous situation and on the other I'm loath to support the Government by spending money in the Country.

[Deathray 2,933]

Relatives just left Turkish airspace after flying out in the middle of the coup attempt last week. I honestly didn't expect them to go and good to see them on their way back. The threat of terrorism didn't come into it for me when thinking about going to Turkey; let's face it you can get blown up or shot nearly anywhere these days. But Government crackdowns and the elimination of the opposition make me think again. On the one hand to creates an uneasy and potentially dangerous situation and on the other I'm loath to support the Government by spending money in the Country.

On the other hand if your going to a coastal resort those people need tourist money more than ever at this point regardless of what you think of the government.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,132]

Relatives just left Turkish airspace after flying out in the middle of the coup attempt last week. I honestly didn't expect them to go and good to see them on their way back. The threat of terrorism didn't come into it for me when thinking about going to Turkey; let's face it you can get blown up or shot nearly anywhere these days. But Government crackdowns and the elimination of the opposition make me think again. On the one hand to creates an uneasy and potentially dangerous situation and on the other I'm loath to support the Government by spending money in the Country.

I think id feel safer in Benidorm, Bognor or Palma Nova than I would in Bodrum or Marmaris.........

[rockhopper penguin 2,264]

 

Relatives just left Turkish airspace after flying out in the middle of the coup attempt last week. I honestly didn't expect them to go and good to see them on their way back. The threat of terrorism didn't come into it for me when thinking about going to Turkey; let's face it you can get blown up or shot nearly anywhere these days. But Government crackdowns and the elimination of the opposition make me think again. On the one hand to creates an uneasy and potentially dangerous situation and on the other I'm loath to support the Government by spending money in the Country.

On the other hand if your going to a coastal resort those people need tourist money more than ever at this point regardless of what you think of the government.

It's a fair point but most of the money goes in taxes to the government. It's analogous to the anti - apartheid arguments. I can't quite reconcile Erdogan's conservatism with what goes on in the coastal resorts. My worry is that neither can Erdogan.

[Deathray 2,933]

 

 

Relatives just left Turkish airspace after flying out in the middle of the coup attempt last week. I honestly didn't expect them to go and good to see them on their way back. The threat of terrorism didn't come into it for me when thinking about going to Turkey; let's face it you can get blown up or shot nearly anywhere these days. But Government crackdowns and the elimination of the opposition make me think again. On the one hand to creates an uneasy and potentially dangerous situation and on the other I'm loath to support the Government by spending money in the Country.

On the other hand if your going to a coastal resort those people need tourist money more than ever at this point regardless of what you think of the government.

It's a fair point but most of the money goes in taxes to the government. It's analogous to the anti - apartheid arguments. I can't quite reconcile Erdogan's conservatism with what goes on in the coastal resorts. My worry is that neither can Erdogan.

 

 

20% tax rate, so 80% isn't.

[CarolAnn 924]

 

Relatives just left Turkish airspace after flying out in the middle of the coup attempt last week. I honestly didn't expect them to go and good to see them on their way back. The threat of terrorism didn't come into it for me when thinking about going to Turkey; let's face it you can get blown up or shot nearly anywhere these days. But Government crackdowns and the elimination of the opposition make me think again. On the one hand to creates an uneasy and potentially dangerous situation and on the other I'm loath to support the Government by spending money in the Country.

I think id feel safer in Benidorm, Bognor or Palma Nova than I would in Bodrum or Marmaris....

 

I'm going to San Francisco. I figure my chances at 50-50.