Political Frailty

[YoungWillz 21,046]

Death notice for former British High Commissioner to Belize, later to Barbados, Gordon Baker: https://announcements.telegraph.co.uk/marketplace/advert/baker-notices_56548

 

Wiki (mention): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high_commissioners_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_Belize

Wiki (mention): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high_commissioners_of_the_United_Kingdom_to_Barbados

 

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have mentioned him, except a telegram (remember them?) written by him in 1997 when representing Belize was leaked to The Times. That expressed that there were rumours about Lord Michael Ashcroft's business dealings "cast a shadow over his reputation which ought not to be ignored". That, along with other revelations, caused Ashcroft no end of trouble a wee bit later on leading to him suing and settling with The Times over various reports regarding certain issues which can be read on Ashcroft's Wiki - I have no wish to express them here, obviously.

 

Anyhow, Baker was caught up inadvertently in that whole thing. 

[drol 11,946]

On 22/07/2023 at 22:04, arghton said:

 

*Ahmad Fathi Sorour (1932), Mubarak associate, who was ousted in 2011 as well. Hospitalised and said to be in coma in March.

 

Ahmad Fathi Sorour dead at 91.

[arghton 6,738]

On 07/10/2022 at 12:19, arghton said:

Om Prakash Chautala who had a stomach infection, discharged according to talk on twitter.

Om Prakash Chautala hospitalised in ICU (apparently now out of ICU, but still hospitalised)

[Deathrace 1,171]

Former Conservative MP and Minister Alistair Burt's father is still around aged 101. Burt jnr is currently 68. 

 

 

[YoungWillz 21,046]

On 25/07/2023 at 11:23, Ulitzer95 said:

Two retirements from the House of Lords today:

Lord Quentin Davies (wiki), 79, Conservative (then defected to Labour) MP (1987–2010), served as a minister under Gordon Brown
Lord Doug Hoyle (wiki), 93, Labour MP (1974–1997) and father of Commons Speaker Lindsay Hoyle

One more due on Thursday:

Lord Hylton (wiki), 91, Crossbench hereditary peer, longest serving crossbencher, sat in Parl since 1968

Just two years ago I frequently saw Hylton downing pints in the Lord Riverside Bar, but he looked pretty frail. I know nothing of the other two, but I think these could be 3 names worth watching.

Doug Hoyle dead: 

 

[YoungWillz 21,046]

2 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Doug Hoyle dead: 

 

Doug Hoyle appears to have been dropped from two teams from 2023, so @Death Impends he is another List of the Missed: https://www.derbydeadpool.co.uk/deadpool2023/celebs_H.html#hoyled023

[drol 11,946]

ITV is giving his age as 98. Error?

[YoungWillz 21,046]

6 minutes ago, drol said:

ITV is giving his age as 98. Error?

Warrington Guardian have gone for 97, Lancashire Telegraph have gone for 94. 

[Ulitzer95 12,620]

1 hour ago, drol said:

ITV is giving his age as 98. Error?

This is correct actually.

The birth records don't like. Eric D H Hoyle, born in Chorley on 17 Feb 1926.

Wowza. Everywhere has it wrong, even Who's Who!

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

Aye and Hoyle even says 97 in a further tweet. Saying he retired from the HoL in 2023 aged 97

[Ulitzer95 12,620]

2 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

Warrington Guardian have gone for 97, Lancashire Telegraph have gone for 94. 

Warrington Guardian and Lancashire Telegraph have now amended their articles.

Guardian obit confirms born 17 Feb 1926 in Coppull, a village by Chorley. Did not serve in WWII.

[Ulitzer95 12,620]

Of note, Doug Hoyle was the last living MP who represented the now abolished seat of Warrington.

His death also leaves Lord John Lee (wiki), 81, as the last living MP to have represented the now abolished seat of Nelson and Cole. Lee was a Tory MP from 1979 to 1992. He publicly defected to the Lib Dems in 2001, and was given a peerage from them in 2006.

[YoungWillz 21,046]

Lindsay Hoyle's troubles over his speakership likely to be postponed, then.

 

Until electiontide? Who knows? What thereafter? Will he be sent out for an early cup of tea?

[The Old Crem 3,605]

2 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Lindsay Hoyle's troubles over his speakership likely to be postponed, then.

 

Until electiontide? Who knows? What thereafter? Will he be sent out for an early cup of tea?

Labour are not in favour of removing him as a speaker and the polls predict they will have a majority. And if they don’t them and The Lib Dem’s (Also supportive of him) may have a combined majority. 

[YoungWillz 21,046]

3 minutes ago, The Old Crem said:

Labour are not in favour of removing him as a speaker and the polls predict they will have a majority. And if they don’t them and The Lib Dem’s (Also supportive of him) may have a combined majority. 

Personally, I have never been in favour of nepotism in any form.

 

I like Hoyle, I think he's generally above reproach (except for that huge mistake recently). But I am all in favour of the children of MPs or former MPs being barred from standing for the Commons. And yes, that includes Stephen Kinnock from Labour and former Tory MP Nick Hurd.

 

Otherwise the place just becomes another hereditary-like aristo system. Skipping a generation, maybe. A couple of generations, better.

 

Ban the kids though. Ban them all.

[The Old Crem 3,605]

25 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Personally, I have never been in favour of nepotism in any form.

 

I like Hoyle, I think he's generally above reproach (except for that huge mistake recently). But I am all in favour of the children of MPs or former MPs being barred from standing for the Commons. And yes, that includes Stephen Kinnock from Labour and former Tory MP Nick Hurd.

 

Otherwise the place just becomes another hereditary-like aristo system. Skipping a generation, maybe. A couple of generations, better.

 

Ban the kids though. Ban them all.

If the public do not want them they don’t have to elect them.

 

 

[YoungWillz 21,046]

5 minutes ago, The Old Crem said:

If the public do not want them they don’t have to elect them.

This is true.

 

It's also true that the hoi polloi are influenced by family connections. The great unwashed like stability, continuity and the idea that their old ma or pa will still have influence over them. There's an inbuilt advantage, quite apart from actual policy, ability or promise, over other contenders. We may like to believe that doesn't exist, but it does.

 

Of course, we are in seismic times, when the public are as disaffected as they are now, that goes out the window. But in quieter times, that advantage counts.

 

Imo.

[Toast 16,140]

3 hours ago, The Old Crem said:

If the public do not want them they don’t have to elect them.

 

But the wider public have no say in the selection of candidates.

[The Old Crem 3,605]

49 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

But the wider public have no say in the selection of candidates.

But they can vote for a different party or an independent.

[Kenny 283]

5 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

Personally, I have never been in favour of nepotism in any form.

 

I like Hoyle, I think he's generally above reproach (except for that huge mistake recently). But I am all in favour of the children of MPs or former MPs being barred from standing for the Commons. And yes, that includes Stephen Kinnock from Labour and former Tory MP Nick Hurd.

 

Otherwise the place just becomes another hereditary-like aristo system. Skipping a generation, maybe. A couple of generations, better.

 

Ban the kids though. Ban them all.

 

You forgot Hilary Benn, son Tony. Victoria Atkins, the Health Secretary. She is the daughter of ex MP Sir Robert Atkins. The “kids”, as you patronisingly describe them, did not choose their parents or inherit their politics genetically. The voters can reject them at the ballot box. 

 

The European Court of Human Rights (the UK is still a signatory to the Convention) would rule that such a ban breached their human rights. Your example Stephen Kinnock (Neil was an EU Commissioner and Glenys was an MEP) would go straight to the ECHR if banned from standing. IIRC his wife was the PM of Denmark.

 

 

[The Old Crem 3,605]

27 minutes ago, Kenny said:

 

You forgot Hilary Benn, son Tony. Victoria Atkins, the Health Secretary. She is the daughter of ex MP Sir Robert Atkins. The “kids”, as you patronisingly describe them, did not choose their parents or inherit their politics genetically. The voters can reject them at the ballot box. 

 

The European Court of Human Rights (the UK is still a signatory to the Convention) would rule that such a ban breached their human rights. Your example Stephen Kinnock (Neil was an EU Commissioner and Glenys was an MEP) would go straight to the ECHR if banned from standing. IIRC his wife was the PM of Denmark.

 

 

Plus they are many other issues to deal with than where the public if they were angry enough can vote against them.

[Deathrace 1,171]

23 minutes ago, Kenny said:

 

You forgot Hilary Benn, son Tony. Victoria Atkins, the Health Secretary. She is the daughter of ex MP Sir Robert Atkins. The “kids”, as you patronisingly describe them, did not choose their parents or inherit their politics genetically. The voters can reject them at the ballot box. 

 

The European Court of Human Rights (the UK is still a signatory to the Convention) would rule that such a ban breached their human rights. Your example Stephen Kinnock (Neil was an EU Commissioner and Glenys was an MEP) would go straight to the ECHR if banned from standing. IIRC his wife was the PM of Denmark.

 

 

Re: Victoria Atkins, yes she's the daughter of former MP Sir Robert Atkins who had a famous election contest with the similarly named Ronald Atkins (who lived to be a 104), who also had a daughter, Charlotte Atkins, who was an MP. It's a rather incestuous political system! 

[YoungWillz 21,046]

Ah, those good old political dynasties, they always work, don't they?

 

The Kennedys and Bushes in America,  the inherited politics of North Korea, etc etc.

 

Will you only listen when all of Boris' kids are in charge? 

[YoungWillz 21,046]

49 minutes ago, Kenny said:

 

You forgot Hilary Benn, son Tony. Victoria Atkins, the Health Secretary. She is the daughter of ex MP Sir Robert Atkins. The “kids”, as you patronisingly describe them, did not choose their parents or inherit their politics genetically. The voters can reject them at the ballot box. 

 

The European Court of Human Rights (the UK is still a signatory to the Convention) would rule that such a ban breached their human rights. Your example Stephen Kinnock (Neil was an EU Commissioner and Glenys was an MEP) would go straight to the ECHR if banned from standing. IIRC his wife was the PM of Denmark.

 

 

Way round it obviously is to permit their appointment to the Lords. They would still have a "political" career, and they would be where the true hereditaries are - thus continuing the exposure of the whole stinking corrupt system.

[The Old Crem 3,605]

6 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Way round it obviously is to permit their appointment to the Lords. They would still have a "political" career, and they would be where the true hereditaries are - thus continuing the exposure of the whole stinking corrupt system.

Such a rule would have disqualified Tony Benn.