Tango854 218 Posted August 29, 2023 1 minute ago, MortalCaso said: I found this a tad amusing You answer your own question with the biggest reason and then try to dismiss it. they are lying about them not shooting down the plane sure, but why on earth would they lie about him being dead? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MortalCaso 1,436 Posted August 29, 2023 Just now, Tango854 said: they are lying about them not shooting down the plane sure, but why on earth would they lie about him being dead? Let's play a game of geopolitics. Why would the leader of a country known to squash dissidents lie about one being dead? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tango854 218 Posted August 29, 2023 1 minute ago, MortalCaso said: Let's play a game of geopolitics. Why would the leader of a country known to squash dissidents lie about one being dead? If said country was known to squash dissidents, why not just simply fucking kill him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tango854 218 Posted August 29, 2023 9 minutes ago, MortalCaso said: Let's play a game of geopolitics. Why would the leader of a country known to squash dissidents lie about one being dead? Also, why would his own fucking men help spread the lie that he, is infact, dead in this hypothetical of yours? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MortalCaso 1,436 Posted August 29, 2023 19 minutes ago, Tango854 said: If said country was known to squash dissidents, why not just simply fucking kill him? 11 minutes ago, Tango854 said: Also, why would his own fucking men help spread the lie that he, is infact, dead in this hypothetical of yours? You stated a country is known to lie.You then noted in this case, it must be the truth. I asked, "Why would the leader of a country known to squash dissidents lie about one being dead?" How does that take an opinion either way? Everything in the world is not cut or dry, black or white. Just because someone says something, especially when they have a history of lying, does not make it the truth. I have no idea if the guy is alive or dead, but I can promise you that the Russian government is not a source I would use either way. Similar to RadarOnline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tango854 218 Posted August 29, 2023 1 minute ago, MortalCaso said: You stated a country is known to lie.You then noted in this case, it must be the truth. I asked, "Why would the leader of a country known to squash dissidents lie about one being dead?" How does that take an opinion either way? Everything in the world is not cut or dry, black or white. Just because someone says something, especially when they have a history of lying, does not make it the truth. I have no idea if the guy is alive or dead, but I can promise you that the Russian government is not a source I would use either way. Similar to RadarOnline. Answer the question, why the fuck would russia lie about this. Not just 'because russians lie' no answer the question, what fucking reason would they have to lie about this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaDeathGuy 202 Posted August 29, 2023 Two idiots fighting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Octopus of Odstock 1,905 Posted August 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, MortalCaso said: I asked, "Why would the leader of a country known to squash dissidents lie about one being dead?" Maybe it's been a long day at work but I had to read your response twice as I couldn't understand what a 'squash dissident' is. And then, what was it about squash they didn't like and why squash was suddenly so important, as I thought Putin like judo. Then it clicked in. Which I'm slightly relieved and slightly disappointed about in equal measure. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MortalCaso 1,436 Posted August 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Tango854 said: Answer the question, why the fuck would russia lie about this. Not just 'because russians lie' no answer the question, what fucking reason would they have to lie about this? Off the top of my head? - They tried to assassinate him and failed. - Part of the deal Prigozhin got a few months ago involved him faking his death. AKA you lost, we will let you live, but you must 'die' in order for Putin to save face - Prigozhin is being imprisoned by Putin for information or just torture. It allows Putin to do anything he wishes to someone who is 'dead' Not saying these are likely, but they are plausible. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tango854 218 Posted August 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, MortalCaso said: Off the top of my head? - They tried to assassinate him and failed. - Part of the deal Prigozhin got a few months ago involved him faking his death. AKA you lost, we will let you live, but you must 'die' in order for Putin to save face - Prigozhin is being imprisoned by Putin for information or just torture. It allows Putin to do anything he wishes to someone who is 'dead' Not saying these are likely, but they are plausible. Prigozhin for better or for worse fucking loves to used telegram, so if there was an assassination attempt on his life, I think we probably would know from him personally. and for number 3, Alexei Navalry is (probably) alive in a siberian prison being tortured for information and yet we know that he is still alive, so number 3 is also unlikely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arrowsmith 335 Posted August 29, 2023 2 hours ago, DaDeathGuy said: Two idiots fighting. No, just one. The other is heroically, but futilely, attempting to reason with either the biggest troll or the biggest idiot on this site. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 3,592 Posted August 29, 2023 6 hours ago, Ulitzer95 said: Am I the only one that thinks there could be something in this? Ok, so we've basically reached the ultimate post-truth scenario now. Vladimir Putin (who may or may not be terminally ill and may or may not be portrayed in public by a double) has shot down (or blown up) a private jet containing Wagner Chief Yevgeny Prighozin (or a double of him). The evidence for this is that Russia lies about everything else, so it's impossible to believe they're telling the truth now, and analysts watching (particularly Russian critics) are often as in the dark as everybody else (18 months on from the invasion, how's Putin's cancer going?). We have passports doing the rounds claiming to show a double and not the real Prighozin, but given how easy it is to fake photos these days, why should we take any notice of these either? This is peak level crazy. Everybody's lying, even when they're telling the truth, nobody knows what the truth is and everybody's got an agenda, whether you're Putin, Proghozin, the Russian security services, the West, Ukraine, etc., etc. Best we can do is 'Presumed and Declared Dead' until he pops back up or we have evidence to suggest he might be. I mean, all this talk of a double - if Putin uses them, surely he'd make sure Prighozin wasn't? All I keep thinking is while Proghozin's double is a charred mess in the ground and Putin's double is blaming the West for everything, somewhere, in the shadows, Putin and Prighozin run into each other like this: 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcreptile 10,288 Posted August 29, 2023 Russia's tactics have not necessarily been about presenting an alternative, but about destroying established positions. Their lies taken all together dont make sense but each single one attacks the truth a little bit. The strategy of "Zersetzung". World media pretty quickly decided that Prigozhin was in fact dead. It would be a typical russian strategy to sow doubt with several competing stories. Especially because the murder reflects extremely badly on Putin. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 3,592 Posted August 29, 2023 35 minutes ago, gcreptile said: Russia's tactics have not necessarily been about presenting an alternative, but about destroying established positions. Their lies taken all together dont make sense but each single one attacks the truth a little bit. The strategy of "Zersetzung". World media pretty quickly decided that Prigozhin was in fact dead. It would be a typical russian strategy to sow doubt with several competing stories. Especially because the murder reflects extremely badly on Putin. And also plays into the Kremlin's narrative that Prigozhin is a untrustworthy scumbag, unlike Uncle Vlad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcreptile 10,288 Posted August 30, 2023 Currently up on the Guardian live updates: Kremlin says Prigozhin plane crash may have been caused deliberately The Kremlin said on Wednesday that the investigation into the plane crash which killed the Wagner mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin and nine others last week included the possibility that it was caused deliberately, Reuters reports. “It is obvious that different versions are being considered, including the version – you know what we are talking about – let’s say, a deliberate atrocity,” the Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters. Perfect example for what I said above, "different versions are being considered", and then the "deliberate atrocity", which is basically saying, "maybe we killed him, but we don't say that we did it". I mean, who else would kill Prigozhin deliberately? It's all about throwing bullshit at the wall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Youth in Asia 1,027 Posted August 31, 2023 On 30/08/2023 at 00:35, Octopus of Odstock said: Maybe it's been a long day at work but I had to read your response twice as I couldn't understand what a 'squash dissident' is. And then, what was it about squash they didn't like and why squash was suddenly so important, as I thought Putin like judo. Then it clicked in. Which I'm slightly relieved and slightly disappointed about in equal measure. Actually there is a squash dissident. Mohammed Asal, the 21yo former world no 1 has just been banned from the game for 3 months (I think it's his third such ban in 3 years). Squash has to be played in a gentlemanly way as you share the same playing space, but he does things like grabbing opponents, tripping them up at high speed, hitting the ball into their legs on purpose and in one case hitting an opponent in the head giving him a burst eardrum. Personally I hope he gets crushed like Prigozhin. Squash is being overtaken fast enough by sports like Padel, it doesn't need a fool like him to accelerate the process. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tango854 218 Posted September 3, 2023 On 29/08/2023 at 14:20, arrowsmith said: No, just one. The other is heroically, but futilely, attempting to reason with either the biggest troll or the biggest idiot on this site. yeah I attempted to reason with the worst version of the joker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mollyafox 448 Posted October 6, 2023 Putin claims that the plane crash was caused by Prigozhin and his associates themselves, saying they were under the influence of cocaine and that they had hand grenades on the plane with them. 1 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 3,592 Posted October 6, 2023 "They blew themselves up" is a hell of a defence argument... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
harrymcnallysblueandwhitearmy 1,472 Posted October 6, 2023 On 29/08/2023 at 18:35, Octopus of Odstock said: Maybe it's been a long day at work but I had to read your response twice as I couldn't understand what a 'squash dissident' is. And then, what was it about squash they didn't like and why squash was suddenly so important, as I thought Putin like judo. Then it clicked in. Which I'm slightly relieved and slightly disappointed about in equal measure. Squash Dissidents is either a great band name or the hidden track on Pavement’s debut album. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
