Each Year's Most Significant Death.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,197]

28 minutes ago, time said:

I get all that, I just don't see how or why his death is significant, unless on a personal level. He wasn't delivering any new output, and hadn't for a number of years. All his old stuff is still out there, freely available - his death hasn't changed that - so unless he was coming round for tea every Sunday, I can't see what makes his death is significant. 

 

Ginsburg, on the other hand, was still involved in law-making at the highest level, in one of the most powerful countries in the world. I'd call her death significant, at least to Americans, but perhaps, by extension, to the general western world.

 

Maybe its down to differing opinions on what 'significant' means to different people.

 

 

 

 

 

On that basis, I'd argue George Floyd's death to be the most significant. 

 

Connery is one of many, like Kirk Douglas and Livvie De Havilland that is up there for most famous though. 

[BCAlum2000 42]

1 hour ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

 

On that basis, I'd argue George Floyd's death to be the most significant. 

 

Connery is one of many, like Kirk Douglas and Livvie De Havilland that is up there for most famous though. 

 

There were rumors that George Floyd might actually make Time magazine's Person of the Year.  I know there were petitions circulating for it.   Though ultimately, it's probably going to go to Dr. Anthony Fauci, or yes, Donald Trump himself.  

I would actually agree that George Floyd's death probably received more media coverage than almost anybody else in the world, including world famous celebrities.

 

The last person to have received such extensive media coverage would probably, honestly have to be Michael Jackson.   Not even former United States Presidents like George Herbert Walker Bush got such attention for their deaths.  Even famous celebrities who died tragically young didn't get the media coverage George Floyd have.  

I mean, at least in the United States, George Floyd had TWO high profile funerals (one in Minneapolis, one in Houston) where hundreds, maybe thousands were in attendance, and both funerals were aired live on television.  

 

When was the last world famous celebrity to get to have two funerals which were aired live on television to millions watching?

I think only Michael Jackson and Pope John Paul II rivaled George Floyd in terms of media coverage of their deaths.  Though RBG certainly got a lot of coverage as well due to the implications on the United States Supreme Court.    

[BCAlum2000 42]

1 hour ago, Octopus of Odstock said:

 

On that basis, I'd argue George Floyd's death to be the most significant. 

 

Connery is one of many, like Kirk Douglas and Livvie De Havilland that is up there for most famous though. 

 

Also, George Floyd technically isn't a celebrity.  Other than him dying, what was he famous for?

If you became famous b/c you died, you ain't a celebrity.  What did he accomplish prior to his death that was so significant?  

Honestly, i'm looking at things from an American yankee point of view so i might see things differently from you guys. 

 

That's why I think RBG is the most significant death of this year, and that's just from an American perspective.  Though i agree you can make the case that Sean Connery is up there as well (along with Kobe Bryant, John Lewis, and Chadwick Boseman -- particularly b/c Black Panther is such an iconic character; Boseman's death honestly rivals that of Bruce Lee  -- I think he was this generation's Bruce Lee). 

[time 8,606]

8 hours ago, BCAlum2000 said:

 

Also, George Floyd technically isn't a celebrity.  Other than him dying, what was he famous for?

If you became famous b/c you died, you ain't a celebrity.  What did he accomplish prior to his death that was so significant?  

Honestly, i'm looking at things from an American yankee point of view so i might see things differently from you guys. 

 

That's why I think RBG is the most significant death of this year, and that's just from an American perspective.  Though i agree you can make the case that Sean Connery is up there as well (along with Kobe Bryant, John Lewis, and Chadwick Boseman -- particularly b/c Black Panther is such an iconic character; Boseman's death honestly rivals that of Bruce Lee  -- I think he was this generation's Bruce Lee). 

Re George Floyd not being an actual celebrity, the thread doesn't actually say most significant celebrity death, so he counts (see also Muhammed Atta, from the opening post in the thread).

 

What I'm really asking, I suppose, is why are these deaths considered significant? For the most part, everyone amongst us acknowledges the death, maybe feels a little sad for a little while (or in some cases a little happy) but then life goes on from our perspective exactly as it did before (except the recently deceased is no longer available for deadpooling purposes). How do you measure the 'significance' of a death? 

[Toast 16,140]

13 minutes ago, time said:

What I'm really asking, I suppose, is why are these deaths considered significant? For the most part, everyone amongst us acknowledges the death, maybe feels a little sad for a little while (or in some cases a little happy) but then life goes on from our perspective exactly as it did before (except the recently deceased is no longer available for deadpooling purposes). How do you measure the 'significance' of a death? 

 

I think there are two separate interpretations.

One, as you say, where the death of a person makes one feel personally shocked or sad, but has no great impact on the world at large.

Then there are a few where the person's role or achievements means that their death has an impact on wider events.  RBG is an example of this.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

19 hours ago, time said:

I get all that, I just don't see how or why his death is significant, unless on a personal level. He wasn't delivering any new output, and hadn't for a number of years. All his old stuff is still out there, freely available - his death hasn't changed that - so unless he was coming round for tea every Sunday, I can't see what makes his death is significant. 

 

Ginsburg, on the other hand, was still involved in law-making at the highest level, in one of the most powerful countries in the world. I'd call her death significant, at least to Americans, but perhaps, by extension, to the general western world.

 

Maybe its down to differing opinions on what 'significant' means to different people.

 

 

 

 

That is probably the deciding factor.

I agree with what you say, from your perspective, which is perfectly logical and coherent.

I picked Connery because, on a logical assumption, he would have had more of a press and media obituary 'globally' than Ginsburg.

There is a shit ton of James Bond fan sites out there with a global fanbase and, irrespective of whether Ginsberg was still involved in law making, she was not known globally in the way Connery  was.

In terms of press/media coverage and being known globally, Connery made more of an impact than Ginsburg.

Just my opinion.

 

[Banana 859]

Google trends for Kobe Bryant blows everyone out of the water. 

[Toast 16,140]

3 minutes ago, Banana said:

Google trends for Kobe Bryant blows everyone out of the water. 

 

That would partly be due to the circumstances.  A shock accident that took out everyone else present as well, with the potential for a long-running blame/claim battle.

[Ulitzer95 12,638]

7 minutes ago, Banana said:

Google trends for Kobe Bryant blows everyone out of the water. 

That’s because it was a shock/unexpected death with tragic circumstances that everyone wanted to read about.

 

Connery is hands down the most notable person to have died this year.

 

Edit: Toast beat me to it. 

[Banana 859]

1 minute ago, Toast said:

 

That would partly be due to the circumstances.  A shock accident that took out everyone else present as well, with the potential for a long-running blame/claim battle.

So would you say that the horrific and surprise death of one of the greatest basketball players ever is somehow less significant than someone who portrayed James Bond decades ago and who hasnt been active or healthy for some years now? In the year 2020, Kobe Bryant is easily the most significant. 

[Banana 859]

4 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

That’s because it was a shock/unexpected death with tragic circumstances that everyone wanted to read about.

 

Connery is hands down the most notable person to have died this year.

 

Edit: Toast beat me to it. 

Well this comes down to what others have already stated in this thread that “significance” could have differing meanings for differing people. I however can’t see how just being the most notable person to have died in a specific year given that they’re old as shit and almost entirely out of the spotlight is the most significant. 

[time 8,606]

8 hours ago, Toast said:

 

I think there are two separate interpretations.

One, as you say, where the death of a person makes one feel personally shocked or sad, but has no great impact on the world at large.

Then there are a few where the person's role or achievements means that their death has an impact on wider events.  RBG is an example of this.

 

52 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

That is probably the deciding factor.

I agree with what you say, from your perspective, which is perfectly logical and coherent.

I picked Connery because, on a logical assumption, he would have had more of a press and media obituary 'globally' than Ginsburg.

There is a shit ton of James Bond fan sites out there with a global fanbase and, irrespective of whether Ginsberg was still involved in law making, she was not known globally in the way Connery  was.

In terms of press/media coverage and being known globally, Connery made more of an impact than Ginsburg.

Just my opinion.

 

That's the problem I think - 'significant' is open to various interpretations, and doesn't (in my opinion) fit for Connery's death. It may be personally significant in that someone widely admired has died and its upsetting, and therefore significant on that level.On a global level, its notable, but not necessarily significant, whereas with Ginsburg, its more or less the opposite. 

[Ulitzer95 12,638]

3 minutes ago, Banana said:

Well this comes down to what others have already stated in this thread that “significance” could have differing meanings for differing people. I however can’t see how just being the most notable person to have died in a specific year given that they’re old as shit and almost entirely out of the spotlight is the most significant. 

Well if you want to weigh “significance” largely on tragedy/manner of death and reaction to it then technically George Floyd trumps Bryant... and yet I don’t think anyone would claim Floyd is more notable than Connery.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

1 minute ago, time said:

 

That's the problem I think - 'significant' is open to various interpretations, and doesn't (in my opinion) fit for Connery's death. It may be personally significant in that someone widely admired has died and its upsetting, and therefore significant on that level.On a global level, its notable, but not necessarily significant, whereas with Ginsburg, its more or less the opposite. 

Yeah, I think you have hit the nail on the head with that.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

7 minutes ago, Banana said:

So would you say that the horrific and surprise death of one of the greatest basketball players ever is somehow less significant than someone who portrayed James Bond decades ago and who hasnt been active or healthy for some years now? In the year 2020, Kobe Bryant is easily the most significant. 

You have to understand that Basketball is as big as Netball in many countries.

I had heard of Bryant like I know who Wayne Gretzsky is but I would not really consider Bryants death or when Gretzky pops his cloggs as overly notable.

[Toast 16,140]

13 minutes ago, Banana said:

So would you say that the horrific and surprise death of one of the greatest basketball players ever is somehow less significant than someone who portrayed James Bond decades ago and who hasnt been active or healthy for some years now? In the year 2020, Kobe Bryant is easily the most significant. 

 

I don't follow basketball, or any US sport, and while I was vaguely aware of the name I had no idea who he was.  So he was not at all significant to me, in either sense.

[msc 18,477]

Basketball does have more fans worldwide than the NFL (mostly thanks to China which loves itself some basketball) but it's still a drop in the ocean next to football. That said, when Bryant died Twitter crashed on 3 or 4 continents which was quite impressive.

 

Despite not having seen him in anything, I do get folk who say it was Chadwick Boseman, tbh. Young actor, rapidly gaining millions of fans and a strong reputation in his field, just starred in one of the biggest grossing films of all time, and suddenly he's dead to a cancer most of those fans (most of them young kids too) didn't even know about.

 

But then the significance debate will never be sorted here. Arguably Qaboos of Oman was one of the most significant deaths since he'd done so much to keep the Middle East from self-destructing but he wasn't exactly a household name in the UK!

 

In the end you can only answer these things from a personal reply, which is why to me the most significant celeb death of the year was Diana Rigg. With Derek Fowlds, Clive Cussler and good old Terry Jones as close contenders.

[Banana 859]

21 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Well if you want to weigh “significance” largely on tragedy/manner of death and reaction to it then technically George Floyd trumps Bryant... and yet I don’t think anyone would claim Floyd is more notable than Connery.

 

George Floyd's death wasn't a "celebrity death". He was a nobody when he died.

 

17 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

You have to understand that Basketball is as big as Netball in many countries.

I had heard of Bryant like I know who Wayne Gretzsky is but I would not really consider Bryants death or when Gretzky pops his cloggs as overly notable.

 

I've already conceded that Connery is most probably more notable worldwide, however that's not what I'm arguing. You also need to understand that Sean Connery isn't as well known as other actors in say India either.

 

12 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

I don't follow basketball, or any US sport, and while I was vaguely aware of the name I had no idea who he was.  So he was not at all significant to me, in either sense.

 

Have you ever heard of personal experience bias? Sure it may be your opinion that Connery was more significant, but that doesn't just make it so.

 

 

The way I see it is what death signifies the year. In 5-10-whatever years from now, whose death is going to the most indicative of 2020? That's gonna be Kobe Bryant (at least at the moment).

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

8 minutes ago, Banana said:

 

George Floyd's death wasn't a "celebrity death". He was a nobody when he died.

 

 

I've already conceded that Connery is most probably more notable worldwide, however that's not what I'm arguing. You also need to understand that Sean Connery isn't as well known as other actors in say India either.

 

 

Have you ever heard of personal experience bias? Sure it may be your opinion that Connery was more significant, but that doesn't just make it so.

 

 

The way I see it is what death signifies the year. In 5-10-whatever years from now, whose death is going to the most indicative of 2020? That's gonna be Kobe Bryant (at least at the moment).

Er.....No.

[Banana 859]

1 minute ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

Er.....No.

 

"No, no, trust me"

[Ulitzer95 12,638]

Your initial argument for Bryant being the most “significant” was Google trends.

 

It’s likely many of the people Googling worldwide were trying to find out who he actually was after he started trending on socials.

 

~160 (3/4) of the world’s countries have never had a basketball team feature in an international level competition.

 

The year’s most significant death is not bloody Kobe Bryant.
 

[Banana 859]

3 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Your initial argument for Bryant being the most “significant” was Google trends.

 

It’s likely many of the people Googling worldwide were trying to find out who he actually was after he started trending on socials.

 

~160 (3/4) of the world’s countries have never had a basketball team feature in an international level competition.

 

The year’s most significant death is not bloody Kobe Bryant.
 

 

Your entire argument hinders on a single assumption that you cannot prove and that's not even my argument for Kobe Bryant.

 

edit: Also, at their peaks, the trend favors Bryant 100:14 so you're basically saying that 86% of the searches for Bryant were just "who is he" which is just absurd. And that doesn't even consider the people doing the same for Connery.

[Paul Bearer 6,102]

32 minutes ago, Banana said:

The way I see it is what death signifies the year. In 5-10-whatever years from now, whose death is going to the most indicative of 2020? That's gonna be Kobe Bryant (at least at the moment).

Doubt that very much. Not that I'm an authority on it, but personally I'd never heard of him (Bryant) until after he died.  Sean is probably known worldwide, Kobe probably only in the USA and Canada. Maybe a few people here in the uk will have heard of him. 

[Toast 16,140]

54 minutes ago, Banana said:

1 hour ago, Toast said:

 

I don't follow basketball, or any US sport, and while I was vaguely aware of the name I had no idea who he was.  So he was not at all significant to me, in either sense.

 

Have you ever heard of personal experience bias? Sure it may be your opinion that Connery was more significant, but that doesn't just make it so.

 

I haven't even mentioned Connery.

[time 8,606]

47 minutes ago, Banana said:

 

George Floyd's death wasn't a "celebrity death". He was a nobody when he died.

 

 

I've already conceded that Connery is most probably more notable worldwide, however that's not what I'm arguing. You also need to understand that Sean Connery isn't as well known as other actors in say India either.

 

 

Have you ever heard of personal experience bias? Sure it may be your opinion that Connery was more significant, but that doesn't just make it so.

 

 

The way I see it is what death signifies the year. In 5-10-whatever years from now, whose death is going to the most indicative of 2020? That's gonna be Kobe Bryant (at least at the moment).

The fact that George Floyd wasn't a celebrity is immaterial; his death has certainly been of more significance than Bryant's, and I expect that will still be the case in 5-10-whatever years time. Greater fame doesn't equal greater significance.