Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[The Old Crem 3,187]

7 minutes ago, Sly Ronnie said:

 

In 2001 during the election campaign, Deputy Labour Leader John Prescott once punched a voter in the face. The Labour Party won the election with a majority of 167.

People saw it as self defence. My dad actually said it was only time he liked Prescott.

[RoverAndOut 3,560]

16 minutes ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

No, literally everyone who I've seen outside of the news who has mentioned the Rayner 'scandal' is saying how stupid it is that this is getting all the focus when there are Conservative party members doing much worse on a daily basis and it goes ignored. The only people who care about it are the people who vote Tory. I won't be voting Labour, not because of someone slightly diddling their council tax for a small payout but because I despise Starmer and the current ideological position of the party.

 

This is, of course, a perfectly respectable viewpoint. But may I gently point out that if your refusal to vote Labour means the Tories win your seat, then, essentially, you've helped them win. Is it fair? No. But it's how First Past the Post works. (Of course, if another party is in a stronger position in your seat, then not voting Labour makes perfect sense, and you're probably also safe if your seat is a solid Labour seat already - I could vote for any party and Labour will still win here.) I know Labour aren't everybody's cup of tea at the moment, but not voting for them and allowing the Tories back in would be a monumental cock-up.

[Commtech Sio Bibble 1,388]

1 minute ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

This is, of course, a perfectly respectable viewpoint. But may I gently point out that if your refusal to vote Labour means the Tories win your seat, then, essentially, you've helped them win. Is it fair? No. But it's how First Past the Post works. (Of course, if another party is in a stronger position in your seat, then not voting Labour makes perfect sense, and you're probably also safe if your seat is a solid Labour seat already - I could vote for any party and Labour will still win here.) I know Labour aren't everybody's cup of tea at the moment, but not voting for them and allowing the Tories back in would be a monumental cock-up.

I fully understand that, the reason I'm so confident in saying that is because there is no chance at all of the Tories winning in my constituency. My postal vote for the upcoming local elections arrived the other day and because local branches of the parties are quite different to the Westminster branches I felt confident voting on who I thought would make a better councillor/mayor, and I'll probably have a similar mindset going into the GE and vote for who will make a better local representative and not who I want in government, as at the end of the day that is what I'm actually voting for.

[TQR 12,391]

This election, for me, is about destroying the Tories as much as possible. In my constituency, Labour are the most likely to defeat them, so that’s where my vote is going. I’d love to be voting Green but priorities innit.

 

Check who is the most effective anti-Tory vote in your constituency!

[Commtech Sio Bibble 1,388]

13 minutes ago, TQR said:

Check who is the most effective anti-Tory vote in your constituency!

This doesn't actually work for me as I'm in one of the many constituencies that have been gerrymandered by the Tories for the upcoming election, consequently I find that The Electoral Calculus site is more effective and up to date.

[Father Brown 97]

Talk of a no confidence vote in Sunak after the locals. If the letters do start coming in, I can see him legging it to the palace.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/sunak-set-for-week-long-blitz-of-announcements-amid-talk-of-no-confidence-vote-and-summer-election-13120556

[Philheybrookbay1 158]

Postal vote done for local and crime commissioner.

 

Whilst it's Labour for Plymouth council (I'm in the most Labour ward anyway) I've tactical voted for the crime commissioner. As its the whole of Devon and Cornwall - in reality only currently 4 areas would be Labour foothold (both Plymouth constituency,  Exeter and Falmouth/Camborne area). So I've gone Lib Dem as I think they'll do pretty well in most of Cornwall and Devon. 

[Bibliogryphon 8,711]

7 hours ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

Maitlis, Newman and Guru -Murthy. Think I'll be watching CH4's coverage.  Stewart and Campbell I can take or leave, they'll be primarily there for analysis

 

I agree it looks like a good primary line up but they are also including some of the Gogglebox cast which could be really cringeworthy

[maryportfuncity 10,030]

7 hours ago, Father Brown said:

Talk of a no confidence vote in Sunak after the locals. If the letters do start coming in, I can see him legging it to the palace.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/sunak-set-for-week-long-blitz-of-announcements-amid-talk-of-no-confidence-vote-and-summer-election-13120556

 

 

Suella Braverman on the Today programme a few minutes back spent the opening part of her usual grandstanding interview going over righteous stuff about how she works for her constituents etc., and why the job of the party is to win the next general election. So she thinks there's a chance of a leadership election before they go to the country, then

[maryportfuncity 10,030]

8 hours ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

This doesn't actually work for me as I'm in one of the many constituencies that have been gerrymandered by the Tories for the upcoming election, consequently I find that The Electoral Calculus site is more effective and up to date.

 

Yeah, thinking an anti-Tory vote round my way probably doesn't make that much difference. Current prediction on Electoral Calculus is that the Tory lead comes down from 35% to 17%, but they're back in. 

 

 

[DCI Frank Burnside 2,822]

19 minutes ago, maryportfuncity said:

 

 

Suella Braverman on the Today programme a few minutes back spent the opening part of her usual grandstanding interview going over righteous stuff about how she works for her constituents etc., and why the job of the party is to win the next general election. So she thinks there's a chance of a leadership election before they go to the country, then

Think it's wishful thinking from her. Still reckon Rishi will go to the Palace if they try to move against him

[maryportfuncity 10,030]

1 minute ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

Think it's wishful thinking from her. Still reckon Rishi will go to the Palace if they try to move against him

 

 

Think so too, also think there are a few factions out there incl. Braverman's little posse all of whom think they are in with a chance - if Sunak is in the position of facing a vote it'll likely get divisive, ugly and do nowt for their already dire poll ratings.

[The Old Crem 3,187]

2 hours ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

Think it's wishful thinking from her. Still reckon Rishi will go to the Palace if they try to move against him

I’m not so sure he will now because the Rwanda flights won’t be until July. And I don’t think he will want parliament dissolved st that time. 

[YoungWillz 19,189]

Listened to Sunak's speech this morning on the Rwanda Bill.

 

It is quite clear his Government has gone rogue. The ability of the Executive simply to ignore court rulings is a breach of the British Constitution's system of checks and balances. Even Boris Johnson or Margaret Thatcher in their most orgasmic of wet dreams would never have dreamed of the Executive holding sway and putting themselves above the law.

 

I wish he would just fuck off.

[Toast 14,892]

https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/rishi-sunaks-sick-note

 

Well worth a look

[DCI Frank Burnside 2,822]

 

[Toast 14,892]

11 hours ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

I'm in one of the many constituencies that have been gerrymandered by the Tories for the upcoming election

 

Same here

 

12 hours ago, TQR said:

This election, for me, is about destroying the Tories as much as possible. In my constituency, Labour are the most likely to defeat them, so that’s where my vote is going. I’d love to be voting Green but priorities innit.

 

Same. Our local councillor will be standing for the Greens, but I can't afford to vote for them which is a shame. Honest, conscientious and hard-working, and would be a terrific MP.

[Bibliogryphon 8,711]

3 minutes ago, Toast said:

Same. Our local councillor will be standing for the Greens, but I can't afford to vote for them which is a shame. Honest, conscientious and hard-working, and would be a terrific MP.

 

Both the Conservatives and Labour are now both uneasy coalitions and Brexit has shot a bolt right through party politics I think now is the time where we have to reconsider the current voting system and introduce a form of Proportional Representation. It will free up the wings of the parties that disagree with each other to breakaway and we might get a more grown up approach to coalition.

 

Politically the distance between Kier Starmer and Ken Clarke is a lot shorter than it is between Kier Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn or Ken Clarke and Suella Braverman

[msc 17,793]

9 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

 

Both the Conservatives and Labour are now both uneasy coalitions and Brexit has shot a bolt right through party politics I think now is the time where we have to reconsider the current voting system and introduce a form of Proportional Representation. It will free up the wings of the parties that disagree with each other to breakaway and we might get a more grown up approach to coalition.

 

Politically the distance between Kier Starmer and Ken Clarke is a lot shorter than it is between Kier Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn or Ken Clarke and Suella Braverman

 

tbf I'm a Glasgow socialist and, by comparison, the political distance between me and Ken Clarke is a lot shorter than it is between me and Suella Braverman or George Galloway!

[TQR 12,391]

11 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

Politically the distance between Kier Starmer and Ken Clarke is a lot shorter than it is between Kier Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn or Ken Clarke and Suella Braverman

 

Well, Keir's outward, pre-election stance certainly is, but he's keeping his socialist principles closeted for the purposes of getting elected. That, coupled with Rachel Reeves' economic centrism, is enough to disappoint lefties (including me, though not enough to get in the way of being GTTO whatever it takes), but won't put nearly as many of those off voting Labour as shifting leftwards and scaring the floating voters would. If Starmer gets a second term, and there's no reason at this stage to believe he won't, my prediction is that term being a much bigger drive for social mobility and public service strengthening. First term will be for firefighting, second term for rebuilding.

[Commtech Sio Bibble 1,388]

37 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

Politically the distance between Kier Starmer and Ken Clarke is a lot shorter than it is between Kier Starmer and Jeremy Corbyn or Ken Clarke and Suella Braverman

It certainly seems that way but to be honest I could not tell you what position Starmer holds on any political issue, if you'd have asked me when he was first elected leader I might have had some idea and would have been a lot more positive towards him but now he's flip-flopped on almost every issue that I don't trust him. A lot of what the Labour party says now is inline with the Tories but I have no idea if that's what they actually stand for or if they're just trying to get Tory voters on side, either way it's not great.

[Toast 14,892]

43 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

 

Both the Conservatives and Labour are now both uneasy coalitions and Brexit has shot a bolt right through party politics I think now is the time where we have to reconsider the current voting system and introduce a form of Proportional Representation. It will free up the wings of the parties that disagree with each other to breakaway and we might get a more grown up approach to coalition.

 

Yes.  But how?

[The Old Crem 3,187]

25 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

Yes.  But how?

The public rejected AV in 2011 so i am not sure there is the desire for electoral reform and having a referendum in 2011 means they would have to be one again. 

[TQR 12,391]

43 minutes ago, Toast said:

Yes.  But how?

 

It's a shame that Starmer et al are so quick to shut the door on changes to the vote system, but if the Tories are still weak come GE 2029 (as they should be) that might be the time for a pro-PR vote. Lib Dem and Green would do very well out of this if the pro-PR movement gained traction.

 

Frustrating that this is 5 years down the line though innit.

[Commtech Sio Bibble 1,388]

9 minutes ago, TQR said:

 

It's a shame that Starmer et al are so quick to shut the door on changes to the vote system, but if the Tories are still weak come GE 2029 (as they should be) that might be the time for a pro-PR vote. Lib Dem and Green would do very well out of this if the pro-PR movement gained traction.

 

Frustrating that this is 5 years down the line though innit.

Unless we get another coalition govt, I doubt it will be attempted any time soon, and even then it'll probably be another attempt at AV, which in my opinion isn't that much better. I studied different electoral systems for my politics A-level and I think the one that I was most in favour of was Single Transferable Vote like they have in Northern Ireland, but I doubt we'll ever get that nationwide.