Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[TQR 14,385]

[YoungWillz 21,026]

Anyone else as sick as me watching Jeremy Hunt trawling this morning's political shows? 

 

Smirking his way through rehearsed lines on the economy, crumbling public buildings, doctors' strikes etc etc. The man can't help himself from pasting on that fake smile.

 

In fact the only time he let it go was when he was talking about his recently dead brother. But totally emotionless.

 

Get them all to fuck.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

On a long coach journey home last night, I read two interesting articles related to the world of politics.

 

She's totally lost it: the inside story on the unravelling of Liz Truss's premiership (Guardian) - did you know it's been nearly a year since the Trussterfuck? Reading all 49 days from start to finish, it's quite remarkable how it all happened and how much we forget about the damage she did in such a short space of time. Well worth 15 minutes. Honestly and truly, I had forgotten that Jeremy Hunt was still the Chancellor until he popped up this morning on LK. Has he done anything at all this year? 

 

The second, unfortunately, I cannot link to online, was from the 'i' and by Patrick Cockburn, entitled 'America is lapsing into permanent political crisis'. I'll post underneath:

 

Spoiler

The smell of gunpowder already pervades the US presidential election of 2024. Menacing threats of civil conflict are made from every podium. "Do you want us to in [a] civil war?" asked the former Republican vice presidential candidate and Alaska governor Sarah Palin in response to the arrest of Donald Trump on election charges in Georgia last month. "Because that's what going to happen... We do need to rise up and take our country back."

 

Rants like Palin's are commonplace but they need to be taken seriously since to many they sound like a real call to arms. Those on trial for invading the Capitol on 6 January 2020 credibly claim that they were only responding to Trump's incendiary, if ambiguous, words of encouragement. Yet, whatever actually happened on that day, the attackers are being severely punished as genuine insurgents with the leader of the Proud Boys militia, Joe Biggs, who had declared a "war" to ensure that Trump would remain US President, sentenced on Thursday to 17 years in prison. Trump says he would pardon "a large proportion" of the Capitol rioters if he were to become president again.

 

The US now faces the likelihood that Trump, who is level pegging with President Joe Biden in the polls, will be the Republican presidential candidate next year at the same moment as the US government is seeking to put him in prison. They may force him out of the race, but his high-profile legal battles to come will enable to do what he does best, which is to turn attacks on himself to his own advantage by using them to dominate the news agenda. While he does so, Biden's campaign will be marginalised and ignored by the media.

 

The political crisis in the US is replacing the war in Ukraine as the great wild card in international affairs, with nobody able to predict to what extent the American system of government has really broken down. A surge in violence looks unavoidable but what form will it take and how dangerous will it be?

 

The last time political turmoil in the US was so great was in the 1960s; violence took the form of race riots and the assassination of leaders such as President Kennedy, his brother Robert, Martin Luther King Jnr and Malcolm X - all of whom were shot to death. Given the rising level of hatred and the universal availability of firearms, it would be surprising if we do not see a serious attempt to kill a leading political figure before the election.

 

Assassins only have to follow the lead of their governments in disposing of critics and opponents. State-sponsored killings have been on the rise over the past few years, impressing individuals with the idea that this is an effective and acceptable way to change the course of history. The most recent probable assassination victim was the Wagner leader, Yevgeny Prighozin, whom the Kremlin has every reason to target. But it was on orders from Trump that a US drone assassinated the Iranian general Qassem Soleimani, along with an Iraqi militia leader, at Baghdad airport on 3 January 2020. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS), the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia, alleged by the CIA to have ordered the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul in 2018, is being hurriedly rehabilitated by all sides who want him as an ally in the Ukraine war.

 

I do not believe that the US is facing a civil war alongside the classic lines of that between the Confederacy and the Union (1861-65), but it is locked into an unrelenting domestic conflict that is bound to produce more violence. This is not as surprising as it is sometimes portrayed because America has always been more divided geographically, politically, ethnically and culturally than foreigners imagine or Americans admit to themselves. This division is not all negative since it is the very collision between these radically different versions of America which produces much of the country's energy and originality.

 

America's divisions are often seen as racial with hatreds deeply embedded by slavery and the Civil War. As president, Trump left no doubt about where he stood on these issues, once threatening to veto a $718bn defence bill because it renamed US military bases like Fort Bragg in North Carolina and Fort Hood in Texas, both of which are bizarrely named after Confederate generals who fought to destroy the United States. Trump's racism was barely concealed, but he also succeeded in plugging into a more pervasive political and social culture, once rooted in the South but now extending far beyond the boundaries of the old Confederacy. It is a culture which includes distinctive attitudes to women, gun ownership, abortion, evangelical Christianity, paramilitary policing, crime and punishment, affirmative action and the place of government in society.

 

An unexpected aspect of modern America is that in the wake of the civil rights movement in the 1960s, when black people supposedly gained de jure equality with white people, the Southern version of American politics culture became more dominant. The civil rights movement was portrayed as a great success, but the counter-reaction to it proved in many respects more powerful and influential. Discrimination did not end but took different forms. Black people make up 13 per cent of the US population but 38 per cent of those in prison or jail. The "Southernisation" of American politics and many aspects of American culture in opposition to contrary trends explains why "culture wars" in the US are fought with a venom that is not seen in Britain or in the rest of Europe.

 

Trump was able to extend his appeal through a vague populism to those in America who felt that their standard of living had been eroded over the past 40 years and somebody must be to blame. Trump's base support may not exactly know what he is in favour of, but they feel they have the same enemies as him. Exposure of his lies and failings does him little damage and the judicial assault on him now now under way may again disappoint Democratic expectations.

 

Do these escalating antagonisms lead inexorably towards some sort of violent conflict or even civil war? It is difficult to imagine a decisive turn towards military confrontation as when the South Carolina militia opened fire on federal troops in Fort Sumpter off Charleston in 1861. But it is also difficult to see how Republicans and Democrats can de-escalate hostilities since they encompass such a vast range of antagonistic interests and issues. As the political temperature rises in the coming months there is every likelihood of increased violence that does not amount to anything approaching regular warfare, but does mean that America will be in a state of permanent - and irresolvable - crisis from which is cannot escape.

 

Think it largely sums up some of the existential issues we've been discussing on here in recent weeks. The future doesn't look very bright for the US of A. Interested to hear what others think.

 

[TQR 14,385]

3 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

On a long coach journey home last night, I read two interesting articles related to the world of politics.

 

She's totally lost it: the inside story on the unravelling of Liz Truss's premiership (Guardian) - did you know it's been nearly a year since the Trussterfuck? Reading all 49 days from start to finish, it's quite remarkable how it all happened and how much we forget about the damage she did in such a short space of time. Well worth 15 minutes. Honestly and truly, I had forgotten that Jeremy Hunt was still the Chancellor until he popped up this morning on LK. Has he done anything at all this year? 

 

I read this article yesterday. I know it's all still recent and raw and many are still suffering as a result of her and Kamikwasi's crayon-chewingly stupid actions, but I couldn't help but be amused. It read like a fucking good sitcom plot.

[YoungWillz 21,026]

27 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

On a long coach journey home last night, I read two interesting articles related to the world of politics.

 

Think it largely sums up some of the existential issues we've been discussing on here in recent weeks. The future doesn't look very bright for the US of A. Interested to hear what others think.

 

I think we should make it clear for American readers that "coach" means "intercity bus" in this regard. 

 

Also a couple of things I found interesting. Tucker Carlson (who apparently is from a long family line of CIA agents) pressed Trump in his recent interview as to whether Trump thought he might be killed (under cover of blaming that on the so-called American left). He did that twice, Trump so dumb he didn't even answer the point.

 

To me, that has echoes of JFK's assassination (if you slowly believe that the CIA were somehow involved there). Also, historically I've probably mentioned before that I think Trump is very much a McKinlay type President - another one who got ex-ed. Let's put it this way, there's no way I'm picking him to survive for the Inverse DP next year.

 

Not sure whether the vast majority of Americans are on a powderkeg. There will be the usual nutters on both sides, imo. 

 

It never ceases to amaze me the vast capacity US citizens have to murder each other with crazy weaponry everywhere. And yet most just don't. 

 

Months of this yet. And yet so intriguing. Probably those with shoes on the soil of the USA have a much better perspective than this interested bystander here.

[Toast 16,129]

50 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

She's totally lost it: the inside story on the unravelling of Liz Truss's premiership (Guardian) - did you know it's been nearly a year since the Trussterfuck? Reading all 49 days from start to finish, it's quite remarkable how it all happened and how much we forget about the damage she did in such a short space of time.

 

It is such a shame that she didn't call a general election. That would have been some way towards redemption.

[YoungWillz 21,026]

3 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

It is such a shame that she didn't call a general election. That would have been some way towards redemption.

I wouldn't have enjoyed that. Remember, the membership of the Tory party voted for her and in a lot of ways she represented what many Tories wanted at the time.

 

The reason Sunak is in such a hole (apart from almost everything he has said and done in the past year) is that nobody in the country wanted him except a minority of Tory voters.

 

I never underestimate the ability of the British people to vote for idiots. Truss could easily have won an election pre-Budget. Think on that. Then sigh with relief that it didn't happen. 

[msc 18,437]

23 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

I wouldn't have enjoyed that. Remember, the membership of the Tory party voted for her and in a lot of ways she represented what many Tories wanted at the time.

 

The reason Sunak is in such a hole (apart from almost everything he has said and done in the past year) is that nobody in the country wanted him except a minority of Tory voters.

 

I never underestimate the ability of the British people to vote for idiots. Truss could easily have won an election pre-Budget. Think on that. Then sigh with relief that it didn't happen. 

Wasn't much time. The budget happened as soon as parliament returned after the Queen's death. And even before the Queen died her energy cap which was actually a rise was pissing folk off. 

[YoungWillz 21,026]

1 minute ago, msc said:

Wasn't much time. The budget happened as soon as parliament returned after the Queen's death. And even before the Queen died her energy cap which was actually a rise was pissing folk off. 

Imagine she got a mandate from the people though, holding off on a budget until elected?

 

She gets booted out after the Budget and we have 5 years of unelected Sunak and his revolving door of cronies. *shudder*

[msc 18,437]

4 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Imagine she got a mandate from the people though, holding off on a budget until elected?

 

She gets booted out after the Budget and we have 5 years of unelected Sunak and his revolving door of cronies. *shudder*

So if she was less thick she'd be dangerous?

 

I think the very events speak against this. A change of monarch, a new PM, a patriotic zeal, perfect time to call an election, ride the momentum. Instead they rushed through that budget ASAP because they thought it would be popular. 

[YoungWillz 21,026]

8 minutes ago, msc said:

So if she was less thick she'd be dangerous?

 

I think the very events speak against this. A change of monarch, a new PM, a patriotic zeal, perfect time to call an election, ride the momentum. Instead they rushed through that budget ASAP because they thought it would be popular. 

It's not an either/or. She was thick and she was dangerous. 

 

There was much crowing and happiness immediately after the Budget among the blue, let's not forget that. And as everyone but her supporters saw, it turned to shit by the end of that week. And that's where we are. I'm glad she didn't call an election because she could have won, as you rightly say - which was my initial point.

 

At least there's the prospect of chucking this bunch of smirking fools out. 

 

Meanwhile, in Ru'glen & Hamilton West...well it won't be a Tory.  Mid Beds - who knows?

[TQR 14,385]

This schools story really is astonishing.

 

In 2018, crumbling concrete in schools posed a legitimate critical risk to life. They needed the budget for 400 schools to be repaired/rebuilt. The Tories agreed on 100. Then a certain chancellor going by the name of Rishi Sunak came in and halved the budget to 50, while giving out six-figure sums to Winchester college and seven-figure sums to an IT suite in a US college.

 

Disgusting doesn't even cover it.

[TQR 14,385]

For those who, like me, don’t make it beyond the Torygraph paywall: any ideas what these three good calls may be? I thought of when she claimed in her victory tweet that she’d “hit the ground from day one” and got stuck.

 

 

 

[YoungWillz 21,026]

5 minutes ago, TQR said:

For those who, like me, don’t make it beyond the Torygraph paywall: any ideas what these three good calls may be? I thought of when she claimed in her victory tweet that she’d “hit the ground from day one” and got stuck.

 

 

 

Kill Queen - check.

 

Fuck country - check.

 

Taxpayer pension for life - check.

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,882]

 

 

[msc 18,437]

57 minutes ago, TQR said:

For those who, like me, don’t make it beyond the Torygraph paywall: any ideas what these three good calls may be? I thought of when she claimed in her victory tweet that she’d “hit the ground from day one” and got stuck.

 

 

 

 

1. Put the economy first

2. Criticised financial thinking

3. Trying to bring interest rates down.

 

I kid you not.

[TQR 14,385]

29 minutes ago, msc said:

 

1. Put the economy first

2. Criticised financial thinking

3. Trying to bring interest rates down.

 

I kid you not.

Jesus H Kwarteng. I don’t know Julian Jessop enough to comment on his intellect so I’ll just give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he did this drivel for a very large bet.

[TQR 14,385]

 

Oh, and look at this absolute weapon reflecting on the mess he helped create. Yet another episode of Tories complaining how everything is broken after thirteen and a half years in power.

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,882]

3 hours ago, TQR said:

This schools story really is astonishing.

 

In 2018, crumbling concrete in schools posed a legitimate critical risk to life. They needed the budget for 400 schools to be repaired/rebuilt. The Tories agreed on 100. Then a certain chancellor going by the name of Rishi Sunak came in and halved the budget to 50, while giving out six-figure sums to Winchester college and seven-figure sums to an IT suite in a US college.

 

Disgusting doesn't even cover it.

 

 

 

[TQR 14,385]

55 minutes ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

Hilarious Tory self-entitlement. I mean, I dunno about anyone else, but as I read about over 100 schools having to be closed incase they collapse on the students’ heads and hundreds more being shafted by Tory budget cuts, my immediate thought wasn’t “Cor, fucking good job Education Secretary.”

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

3 hours ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

 

That would be SIR Gavin Williamson. Another bully, along with DAME Priti Patel. Bunch of incompetent, entitled arseholes, knighted by King Rat himself.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

11 minutes ago, TQR said:

Hilarious Tory self-entitlement. I mean, I dunno about anyone else, but as I read about over 100 schools having to be closed incase they collapse on the students’ heads and hundreds more being shafted by Tory budget cuts, my immediate thought wasn’t “Cor, fucking good job Education Secretary.”

 

To be fair, she's been in post about a week. As have the other 14 or 15 education secretaries we've had over the past 13 years... 

[Sly Ronnie 878]

Seems like there's a new Education Secretary for every term in school.

[ladyfiona 2,577]

2 hours ago, Sly Ronnie said:

Seems like there's a new Education Secretary for every term in school.

 

Seems like there is a new prime minister for every term in school. Since Sept 2022 we've had three and depending on next general election we'll have a fourth by May. Unless something happens with Rishi before then.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

1 hour ago, ladyfiona said:

Seems like there is a new prime minister for every term in school. Since Sept 2022 we've had three and depending on next general election we'll have a fourth by May. Unless something happens with Rishi before then.

 

Probably Autumn if Rishi gets his way. Tory MPs would prefer May to tie them into the Council elections but unless things pick up, Rishi will hang on as long as he can (without giving us another Christmas election).

 

5 Tory Prime Ministers in 13.5 years, 3 in a year.

 

10 Education Secretaries in the same amount of time. I'm a teacher and I'd have missed at least half of them.

 

Michael Gove (2010-14)

Nicky Morgan (2014-16)

Justine Greening (2016-18) - so that's 3 in the first 8 years...

Damian Hinds (2018-19)

Gavin Williamson (2019-21) - 5 in 11 years...

Nadhim Zahawi (2021-22)

Michelle Donelan (3 days in 2022)

James Cleverley (2 months in 2022)

Kit Malthouse (1 month in 2022)

Gillian Keegan (Oct 2022 - present) - and 10 in 13.5 years (6 in 2 years)

 

After today's outburst, I'm not sure she's done herself any favours in staying in post after the eventual Rishi reshuffle, so we may get to 11 before the next election.