The EU Referendum Hokey Cokey

[YoungWillz 20,919]

As a former lawyer who voted out...

 

Theresa May has form on trying to push through changes to the law by backhanded methods. She was slapped down by Parliament for trying to sidle through some changes by Statutory Instrument as Home Secretary, when clearly it required legislation.

 

There is no argument. The people voted to leave. If the PM does that "illegally" by triggering Article 50 on her own account, then later on there is a challenge to that, the whole process has to begin again. Better to sort it now so that she does it according to the law of the land.

 

If she is right that she can use prerogrative powers, the Courts will uphold that and she can go ahead.

 

I'd rather she did things legally. If it's not legal that she can use prerogrative powers, I'd rather that was decided now, rather than 2 years down the line when the whole thing might be declared to be aborted halfway/90 percent through negotiations, when we'd have to start again.

 

Although I wouldn't put it past the PM to try that route to keep us in the EU as long as possible...

[themaninblack 2,112]

Definite signs of fudging going on, that's for sure...

[YoungWillz 20,919]

Definite signs of fudging going on, that's for sure...

 

Packed some in my time TMIB....

[YoungWillz 20,919]

Is the hype about some diplomat resigning just a bit much?

 

I mean, he's probably right. Our PM is a confirmed remainer charged with the decision to leave. Her "leadership" on Brexit has been bluff and bluster.

 

Our "beloved" press as I recall had a field day condemning their US equivalents for not exposing Trump more last year. When are we getting the treatment they wanted meted out to Trump delivered to our own PM? Is it because we simply don't have an inquisitorial journalist capable of doing the job anymore?

 

Haul her in front of the cameras and get her to declare something, anything, positive she is doing to meet the demand of the British people.

[msc 18,397]

It's probably because the whole thing is an unworkable mess without some fine and capable political brains around to sort it out all.

 

Now, where did we put our fine and capable political brains?

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Is the hype about some diplomat resigning just a bit much?

 

I mean, he's probably right. Our PM is a confirmed remainer charged with the decision to leave. Her "leadership" on Brexit has been bluff and bluster.

 

Our "beloved" press as I recall had a field day condemning their US equivalents for not exposing Trump more last year. When are we getting the treatment they wanted meted out to Trump delivered to our own PM? Is it because we simply don't have an inquisitorial journalist capable of doing the job anymore?

 

Haul her in front of the cameras and get her to declare something, anything, positive she is doing to meet the demand of the British people.

He should have resigned with Cameron.

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

Duncan Smith will no doubt be disappointed at Tim Barrow's appointment as he was calling for pro-Brexit civil servants to be appointed. Which is of course massive hypocrisy from someone who knows that the civil service has to be impartial and slagged off previous Governments for the same. What the Government won't admit is that sorting out Brexit properly will take much more resource than the Civil Service currently has and funding will need to be found. It wants to bake an M&S cake with ingredients from Lidl.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Duncan Smith will no doubt be disappointed at Tim Barrow's appointment as he was calling for pro-Brexit civil servants to be appointed. Which is of course massive hypocrisy from someone who knows that the civil service has to be impartial and slagged off previous Governments for the same. What the Government won't admit is that sorting out Brexit properly will take much more resource than the Civil Service currently has and funding will need to be found. It wants to bake an M&S cake with ingredients from Lidl.

Even as a Brexit voter, I agree with that.

[YoungWillz 20,919]

Well, Theresa May won't be reading any stories on Jackanory with that performance.

 

Can't see her getting anything like what she wants re Customs Union. Wonder how long it will be for capital flight to kick in.

 

Hopefully interest rates will rise due to anticipated inflation. I could do with a boost to my savings.

 

Sturgeon already rumbling about IndyRef 2.

[Deathray 2,940]

Not as bad as feared from May, there seems to be some more concrete positions now.

 

Exiting the single market's probably for the best.

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Well, Theresa May won't be reading any stories on Jackanory with that performance.

 

Can't see her getting anything like what she wants re Customs Union. Wonder how long it will be for capital flight to kick in.

 

Hopefully interest rates will rise due to anticipated inflation. I could do with a boost to my savings.

 

Sturgeon already rumbling about IndyRef 2.

She needs to stop sabre rattling and fuck off.

[the_engineer 1,414]

 

Well, Theresa May won't be reading any stories on Jackanory with that performance.

 

Can't see her getting anything like what she wants re Customs Union. Wonder how long it will be for capital flight to kick in.

 

Hopefully interest rates will rise due to anticipated inflation. I could do with a boost to my savings.

 

Sturgeon already rumbling about IndyRef 2.

She needs to stop sabre rattling and fuck off.

 

 

I think the Scots are getting pissed off with Sturgeon and the SNP now , no one likes a professional victim or constant whingers. Could explain the rise in conservative voters. I feel that sturgeon would oppose or take the opposite position of the UK govt no matter what the issue was.

 

This has only gotten so bad because of the EU trying to turn us into the soviet union 2.0 if they kept it at the EEC and stopped there it would of been fine. Instead they're trying to gobble up countries , allowing poorer countries to join , introducing a flag , national anthem, allowing unelected politicians (who thought they were untouchable, mainly because they were) to make laws , introduced the Euro (which will be the downfall of the EU in the long run) , creating an EU army and i could go on and on .

 

I hope they keep visa free travel for the current 26 EU members both ways and i'm just happy we're out before Turkey joined .

[msc 18,397]

Well, you know - there's council elections for all of Scotland in May and we'll have a better idea of how fed up or not the Scots are with the SNP then. In their 2011 landslide they got 45% of the vote, roughly over the two lists. Currently, Labour/Tory internal polling has the SNP on...45% for May. They might have lost some folk, but the flood of ex-Labour voters to SNP or Tories is covering that so far.

[YoungWillz 20,919]

Yeah, I get no feels for SNP disillusionment. In fact, I'd be amazed if Labour don't lose control of Glasgow.

 

Problem isn't Sturgeon or the SNP - it's that all the other parties in Scotland look like they are beholden to their Westminster based parties. As I've said before, they all look like various shades of Tory.

 

But let's look at those party leaders.

 

Ruth Davidson - Conservative - professional photo op girl, a winning smile who always asks questions which backfire because she complains about things in Scotland which are being done better up here on a reduced budget than they are down South.

 

Kezia Dugdale - Labour - professional whinger, she's adopted more different positions on various matters than the Kama Sutra (yes let's have Indyref 2, no let's not/Jeremy will be a disaster for Labour, good old Jeremy got elected huzzah for Jeremy/Scotland doesn't need any more powers, you've got new powers so use them).

 

Willie Rennie - LibDems - professional smugnuts, forgets that when his party was in coalition with Labour his party threw away most of their policies to implement the Blair agenda - remind you of Clegg and the Conservatives?

 

Patrick Harvie - Greens - professional opposition, needs the votes to support him but not enough people are politically engaged enough to hear their message. Protest votes against SNP more likely to go here.

 

The strength of feeling I get is SNP are standing up for Scotland. It's a device that is working. When the bully gets smacked by the bullied a cheer goes up, the bullied isn't called a whinger who should go off and commit suicide. UK plc is bullying Scotland into a corner, and Brexit might get them a smack in the face unless May really takes notice.

 

Imo, of course...

[msc 18,397]

Yeah, I get no feels for SNP disillusionment. In fact, I'd be amazed if Labour don't lose control of Glasgow.

 

Aye, I'm pretty much your stereotype "swing voter", but I'll certainly be a tactical anti-GlasgowCityCouncil voter in May!

 

Although of the other parties Willie Rennie has, from very little talent, overachieved (6 years in post, got the party winning constituencies up here again), and Ruth Davidson must be the most successful Tory leader up here since MacMillan or then abouts (although that came primarily from walking Scottish Labour into a trap).

 

As I think I said on here at the time about last years elections: Greens "won" because they trebled their MSPs. Lib Dems "won" because they held the islands and won constituency seats. Tories "won" because they won a whole bunch of seats. SNP won because they stay in government. Labour also took part in the election.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Yeah, I get no feels for SNP disillusionment. In fact, I'd be amazed if Labour don't lose control of Glasgow.

 

Problem isn't Sturgeon or the SNP - it's that all the other parties in Scotland look like they are beholden to their Westminster based parties. As I've said before, they all look like various shades of Tory.

 

But let's look at those party leaders.

 

Ruth Davidson - Conservative - professional photo op girl, a winning smile who always asks questions which backfire because she complains about things in Scotland which are being done better up here on a reduced budget than they are down South.

 

Kezia Dugdale - Labour - professional whinger, she's adopted more different positions on various matters than the Kama Sutra (yes let's have Indyref 2, no let's not/Jeremy will be a disaster for Labour, good old Jeremy got elected huzzah for Jeremy/Scotland doesn't need any more powers, you've got new powers so use them).

 

Willie Rennie - LibDems - professional smugnuts, forgets that when his party was in coalition with Labour his party threw away most of their policies to implement the Blair agenda - remind you of Clegg and the Conservatives?

 

Patrick Harvie - Greens - professional opposition, needs the votes to support him but not enough people are politically engaged enough to hear their message. Protest votes against SNP more likely to go here.

 

The strength of feeling I get is SNP are standing up for Scotland. It's a device that is working. When the bully gets smacked by the bullied a cheer goes up, the bullied isn't called a whinger who should go off and commit suicide. UK plc is bullying Scotland into a corner, and Brexit might get them a smack in the face unless May really takes notice.

 

Imo, of course...

How exactly is the UK 'bullying' Scotland?

Scotland has done very well out of the UK and will continue to do so, irrespective of Brexit.

Im mindful of the fact that, despite the surge of nationalism, the rest of the UK hasn't told Sturgeon to keep her begging bowl in the cupboard, on the contrary, the money keeps rolling in.

Look, whatever Scotland decides to do it will do,Ive no axe to grind but this constant fucking carping is getting on my tits.

If Scotland votes for independence they are FUCKED. They will not be given membership of the EU, that will be vetoed by the Spanish for starters and the rest of the UK will make a big song and dance about cutting all funding for North of the Border double quick, no fucking transitional agreement for them.

The Welsh haven't whinged, the Irish, despite voting to remain in the EU, haven't thrown their rattles out of the pram but Wee Jimmy is jumping up and down making threats to go for another referendum knowing full well that they will be monumentally fucked if they vote to go.

The idea that, even via low business tax and incentives, she could attract industry north is also bollocks.

That was tried with Linwood back in the early 60s...the rest is history.

Basically have a fucking referendum, go with the result then shut the fuck up. Please.

[WednesdayAddams 102]

I was in Edinburgh the day of the Scottish referendum. (Have family there) I could have sworn on my own grave it was going to be a Yes. Everywhere you looked, windows, lampposts, letterboxes and all the street furniture was plastered in Yes stickers.Every street seemed to have a Yes information office. You could not move for activists on the streets handing out Saltires and cars with bull horns up and down Princes street proclaiming freedom from Westminster was at hand. I think I saw just four No posters in the whole city. Then the results came in and Edinburgh voted No!!

 

The SNP tried to bully voters with their campaign in Edinburgh, it was very clear to me. They were way too load and in yer face on every corner. I think people revolted against that. These few years down the line and the feeling I am told by my family member is that people, in Edinburgh at least, are even less in love with the SNP. They just need to make it's case more quietly than it has up until now and do more work to address fears rather than shout them down. The Scots do not like bullies and will not stand for them - for an example look at the blokes that pulled a burning terrorist out of the vehicle he crashed into Glasgow airport and then, once they put out the flames on him, then beat 7 shades of s**t out of the sod.

[msc 18,397]

YES lost for many reasons, one of them being that Alex Salmond is, quite frankly, a bit of a shit politician who kept walking into obvious traps. Obvious traps set by Alastair fucking Darling, we're not exactly talking political masterminds here.

 

Also, Plaid have done a hell of a lot of Brexit related Indy moaning, which is quite something when you consider Wales voted 53% in favour of leaving!

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

The Scots are a fairly large homogeneous bunch who have resisted a number of Westminster inspired initiatives (Poll Tax anyone). The majority have now found a voice in a Scottish Party (because the others are useless) which happens to promote independence. As the current Government only had the backing of 25% of the population but therefore ignores Scotland (and lots of other areas) I'm not surprised they are frustrated. I'd rather Scotland stayed and we had some form of proportional representation which drove consensus building.

[YoungWillz 20,919]

Actually I don't agree the UK is bullying Scotland, I think the Tories are bullying the whole country into doing what is best for the City of London. That's all every Tory leader has done since Thatcher.

 

Can't complain that someone is at least standing up for one particular part of it - whether she's going the right way about it is another matter. Sturgeon was the first to put forward a solid plan. May threw it in the bin. If that was an employer who did that constantly to an employee, it would look like bullying to me anyway.

 

I'm not saying IndyRef is the way to go necessarily. It's not Sturgeon driving it though, it's actually May...

[Spade_Cooley 9,477]

lol @ corbyn forever and ever tbh

[the_engineer 1,414]

Have a feeling labours poll numbers will drop even further now corbyn said he won't block article 50 ,most going to the lib dems . I'm Sure the SJW's are having tantrums and calling corbyn a sell out on twitter round about now.

[msc 18,397]

Doubt it, seems like a fairly big chunk of Labour vote down south is pro-Brexit. Many things will have them hemorrhage votes, this wont be one of them.

[the_engineer 1,414]

check out twitter , all saying they're fooled into voting for him twice and something about a three line whip . He will defo lose ' momentum ' from this.