Thoughts On The 2017 List

[msc 18,045]

Just Googled Tipping Point. They made a game show based around Penny Falls?

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

Just now, msc said:

Just Googled Tipping Point. They made a game show based around Penny Falls?

Well any kind of coins really not neccesarily just pennies but yes you've got the basic gist! Like the games that are in nearly every amusement arcade! 

[msc 18,045]

Just now, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Well any kind of coins really not neccesarily just pennies but yes you've got the basic gist! Like the games that are in nearly every amusement arcade! 

 

When the fair came to Glasgow when I was a kid, I swiftly found out my gran is addicted to those penny fall games.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

Just now, msc said:

 

When the fair came to Glasgow when I was a kid, I swiftly found out my gran is addicted to those penny fall games.

Their certainly addictive although it was more the Pinball Wizard games that ate up most of my money when I went to the arcades as a youngster! 

[The Mad Hatter 1,092]

We've heard jack shit about Leah or king Michael recently.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

Whilst I don't want to sound like I'm trying to be another Harriet Harman, I do find it striking that on a list of 50 only ten names are women. 

 

Whilst I'm not expecting or saying there should be a fifty fifty spilt /25 male names 25 female names I do think it's a little unbalanced. 

 

I'm not alleging sexism or anything like that on the part of the committee just maybe their too focused or immersed in fields of interest etc that are male dominated? It's not as if there's a shortage of famous women, Infact given that women tend to live a bit longer than men there's almost certainly more of them! 

I think perhaps the committee needs to be "feminised" a little or at least come under some more feminine influence in order to broaden out the choices on the list a little? 

 

I have no idea about the composition of the committee but I do sense a lack of females or feminine input and influence! Maybe some oestrogen patches are a necessity?!! 

 

 

This year's list could have been unusual in this respect but whilst not criticising anyone I do think it's worth highlighting it. 

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

1 hour ago, The Mad Hatter said:

We've heard jack shit about Leah or king Michael recently.

I've a strong feeling that it won't be long at all now until there's another "hit"  on the deathlist. 

 

Not very scientific I grant you but that's really what my gut instinct is telling me. 

[Sean 6,102]

10 minutes ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Whilst I don't want to sound like I'm trying to be another Harriet Harman, I do find it striking that on a list of 50 only ten names are women. 

 

Whilst I'm not expecting or saying there should be a fifty fifty spilt /25 male names 25 female names I do think it's a little unbalanced. 

 

I'm not alleging sexism or anything like that on the part of the committee just maybe their too focused or immersed in fields of interest etc that are male dominated? It's not as if there's a shortage of famous women, Infact given that women tend to live a bit longer than men there's almost certainly more of them! 

I think perhaps the committee needs to be "feminised" a little or at least come under some more feminine influence in order to broaden out the choices on the list a little? 

 

I have no idea about the composition of the committee but I do sense a lack of females or feminine input and influence! Maybe some oestrogen patches are a necessity?!! 

 

 

This year's list could have been unusual in this respect but whilst not criticising anyone I do think it's worth highlighting it. 

Men tend to die younger.Also years ago most notable figures where men.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

10 minutes ago, Shaun of the Dead said:

Men tend to die younger.Also years ago most notable figures where men.

I honestly think that I could easily type up hundreds of deathlisty notable women. I don't think there's a massive shortage of them. 

 

Although I don't think you'd want me too!  

[Sean 6,102]

You could do that but how good would they be as candidates?

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

1 hour ago, Shaun of the Dead said:

You could do that but how good would they be as candidates?

Pretty good I think although as you and indeed the committee know it's an inexact science. 

 

I don't see that predicting and choosing likely women is anymore difficult than predicting/choosing for men. 

 

I won't share anything like my big list of potential female candidates but here is a few 1)Dorothy Malone 2) Joanne Woodward 3) Liza Minnelli 4) Prunella Scales 5)Sheila Mercier 6) Liliane Bettencourt 7)Maggie Smith 8) Barbara Walters 9) Joan Plowright 10)Barbara Bush 

 

Just my thoughts that there's plenty of decent female candidates that the committee could think of including. 

 

Whether they will or not is ultimately their decision I'm just politely speaking aloud with a friendly gentle nudge! 

[Grim Up North 3,592]

The DDP Drop 40 only has 9 women so a similar % but selected by a much larger population

 

Whilst you list 10 women above I'm not sure how many of them are actually ill rather than simply old.

If we are just going to say a list of potential candidates for Death List is just old people then the list of men and women would be very long indeed.

 

I think Shaun's points are valid.

 

I also imagine (although cnba to get the actuarial tables to back it up with facts ) that because men live longer than women that an 89 year old man who is not known to be ill is more likely to die during the next 12 months than an 89 year old woman who is not known to be ill. Taking this as fact that means the bar is higher for a woman to get on the Death List simply for being old.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

57 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

The DDP Drop 40 only has 9 women so a similar % but selected by a much larger population

 

Whilst you list 10 women above I'm not sure how many of them are actually ill rather than simply old.

If we are just going to say a list of potential candidates for Death List is just old people then the list of men and women would be very long indeed.

 

I think Shaun's points are valid.

 

I also imagine (although cnba to get the actuarial tables to back it up with facts ) that because men live longer than women that an 89 year old man who is not known to be ill is more likely to die during the next 12 months than an 89 year old woman who is not known to be ill. Taking this as fact that means the bar is higher for a woman to get on the Death List simply for being old.

Can you explain please why it's so much more difficult to choose and predict for women candidates than men? I think your stated reasons are weak. The difficulties you outline are not specific to women. 

Your comments are also applicable to a number of the male candidates on the deathlist like Sandy Gall and Denis Norden 

 

Your making an argument for including elderly men who are not known to be ill but not for including elderly women who are not known to be ill. 

That's inconsistent and the disparity in longevity between men and women is not so big as to justify your rationale. 

[Joey Russ 7,148]

1 minute ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Can you explain please why it's so much more difficult to choose and predict for women candidates than men? The difficulties you outline are not specific to women. 

Your comments are also applicable to a number of the male candidates on the deathlist like Sandy Gall and Denis Norden 

I think the answer to the women question is simply because they have a longer life expectancy than men, so when women show up on the list, they tend to be older folk with maybe a few terminally ill folk here and there (Bracknell, Harper). Those in their mid 80s, male and female, are not actually good candidates unless there is some that we know is wrong with them (talking primarily about Tony Booth here, but I'm thinking the Emperor may also be a good pick as well), and that's where most of your choices come from. Just my thought.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

2 minutes ago, Joey Russ said:

I think the answer to the women question is simply because they have a longer life expectancy than men, so when women show up on the list, they tend to be older folk with maybe a few terminally ill folk here and there (Bracknell, Harper). Those in their mid 80s, male and female, are not actually good candidates unless there is some that we know is wrong with them (talking primarily about Tony Booth here, but I'm thinking the Emperor may also be a good pick as well), and that's where most of your choices come from. Just my thought.

A number of them do have known health problems. Prunella Scales -dementia, Liza Minnellis are well documented and she has a long history of heavy drug use and alcohol abuse which is a risk factor for early death, Joan Plowright is going blind which puts her at higher risks of falls and has had to give up her theatre work, Barbara Bush has been hospitalised in recent months and is likely to be widowed soon which in itself is a risk factor , there's long been rumours about the health of Barbara Walters after she didn't do some guest segments on television and ailing health has been reported on, Dorothy Malone and Joanne Woodward are both supposed to have dementia and in the case of Woodward it was reported in us entertainment magazines,. 

 

So no I don't agree with how your interpreting my list. 

 

Can anyone really argue that Olivia De Havilland isn't and hasn't been included on the list in the past mainly because of age rather than known health problems? 

I have no problem with that but I'm just saying, 

 

We know it's an inexact science hence why the committee has never got higher than 14 out of 50

 

Women live longer but there are plenty of famous older women! 

[Grim Up North 3,592]

34 minutes ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

Can you explain please why it's so much more difficult to choose and predict for women candidates than men? I think your stated reasons are weak.

I think they are strong but I've been really polite about it so I guess we'll just have to agree to differ.

 

Just as an extra bit of supporting evidence though I think I will back up my arguments by using your Shadow List where out of your 50 names you've only considered 13 women worthy of a place and none of them have so far justified their place by dying.

[Spade_Cooley 9,208]

Gender splits of DDP winning teams:

 

2016: 15/5

2015: 15/5

2014: 13/7

2013: 17/3

 

Pretty conclusive imho tbqhwy.

[Toast 15,394]

24 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

Just as an extra bit of supporting evidence though I think I will back up my arguments by using your Shadow List where out of your 50 names you've only considered 13 women worthy of a place and none of them have so far justified their place by dying.

 

I noticed that.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

34 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

I think they are strong but I've been really polite about it so I guess we'll just have to agree to differ.

 

Just as an extra bit of supporting evidence though I think I will back up my arguments by using your Shadow List where out of your 50 names you've only considered 13 women worthy of a place and none of them have so far justified their place by dying.

The year is young! There's a lot of women in my three deadpool Crumble teams but point taken! I did make it clear I wasn't attacking the committee my observations hold true of of many on this forum including me. It's just thoughtful reflection and self awareness. 

 

And yes you've been polite rather than indirectly calling me a troll for disagreeing with you like you did the other day. 

 

 

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

30 minutes ago, Spade_Cooley said:

Gender splits of DDP winning teams:

 

2016: 15/5

2015: 15/5

2014: 13/7

2013: 17/3

 

Pretty conclusive imho tbqhwy.

What does tbqhwy mean please? 

[Grim Up North 3,592]

22 minutes ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

There's a lot of women in my three deadpool Crumble teams

Yes a lot of women - can't see any of them that are dead though so it's a bit of a hollow point. :-)

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,254]

1 hour ago, Grim Up North said:

Yes a lot of women - can't see any of them that are dead though so it's a bit of a hollow point. :-)

Well no not really. Lot's of posters male picks are duds too! 

We will have to agree to disagree. 

[Toast 15,394]

I don't see it as an issue.  This isn't a matter for quotas.  You just pick people who you think are likely candidates, regardless of gender, race, nationality, or whatever. 

 

Shaun makes a good point about women historically being vastly outnumbered by men in the notability stakes.  Most areas were dominated by men.  For example, when I was a child there were no female newsreaders on UK television.  It was held that female voices lacked sufficient gravitas to deliver serious news.  And in the mid-twentieth century UK, most married women of middle class and upwards did not have jobs. This is the generation now reaching old age. 

[Joey Russ 7,148]

2 hours ago, Gooseberry Crumble said:

What does tbqhwy mean please? 

To be quite honest with you. 

[Sean 6,102]

Give it 30 years and it will be far more balanced as more notable women will be either getting extremely old or extremely ill.It will never be 50/50 though as men tend to not live as long as women.