Russell Brand

[Youth in Asia 1,086]

They're all coming out of the woodwork now

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/lauren-harries-claims-russell-brand-30966958

And possibly another supporter he could do without

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/danniella-westbrook-launches-defence-helpful-30966266

 

[Toast 16,129]

16 minutes ago, Youth in Asia said:

True, I think they were 17+, not that I followed that case very closely. Paedo gets thrown around a lot, especially in the media. Should be reserved for people like Gary Glitter who I think was after 11 and 12 year olds.

 

Thanks. I think it's very important that we distinguish between an abhorrent perversion and a natural desire.

I note that you say 17+, so (providing there was consent) this would not even be illegal in many countries, including the UK.

[Brad252 807]

1 hour ago, Youth in Asia said:

True, I think they were 17+, not that I followed that case very closely. Paedo gets thrown around a lot, especially in the media. Should be reserved for people like Gary Glitter who I think was after 11 and 12 year olds.

You've reminded me of the last joke on Mock the Week last year, from Rhys James: "Well that's it for Mock the Week, as is tradition with BBC Execs once something gets to 17 years ago they're no longer interested."

[lilham 752]

The Epstein case is far more disturbing than the explanations laid out above.

Epstein's victims were not all 17+; they included those between the ages of 12 and 16. He was convicted as a level 3 sex offender meaning likelihood of re-offending in a dangerous way were high. Instead of prison, he was in a minimum-security facility for about 3 months and then he was on "house arrest" for which he could leave to go to "work" for 12 hours a day. Post conviction, he was allowed unlimited access to the campuses of Harvard and MIT, given a key card and passcode after hours; this gave him access to young women and the ability to fund his eugenics projects. One of the hugest scandals involving his case was that no one with the power to do so was willing to punish or stop him. It was the Miami Herald that did an investigative report and the public responded with outrage.

[Toast 16,129]

35 minutes ago, lilham said:

The Epstein case is far more disturbing than the explanations laid out above.

Epstein's victims were not all 17+; they included those between the ages of 12 and 16. He was convicted as a level 3 sex offender meaning likelihood of re-offending in a dangerous way were high. Instead of prison, he was in a minimum-security facility for about 3 months and then he was on "house arrest" for which he could leave to go to "work" for 12 hours a day. Post conviction, he was allowed unlimited access to the campuses of Harvard and MIT, given a key card and passcode after hours; this gave him access to young women and the ability to fund his eugenics projects. One of the hugest scandals involving his case was that no one with the power to do so was willing to punish or stop him. It was the Miami Herald that did an investigative report and the public responded with outrage.

 

That's still not paedophilia.  It may be illegal, but that's for a different reason - the issue of the legal age of consent, which of course differs from place to place anyway. 

I wish people would stop conflating the two things.   A minor is not the same as a child in this context.  A child is someone who has not reached puberty.

[lilham 752]

29 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

That's still not paedophilia.  It may be illegal, but that's for a different reason - the issue of the legal age of consent, which of course differs from place to place anyway. 

I wish people would stop conflating the two things.   A minor is not the same as a child in this context.  A child is someone who has not reached puberty.

I didn't say it was pedophilia; I was correcting the rewritten history about him which I don't blame people for but really downplays what was happening. There's much more going on than just an age of consent situation.
I hear "it's not pedophilia; it's ephebophilia" all the time; I know the distinction. As I worked with many people at those respective universities, they made sure we all knew that. That was part of the cover-up. It's a horrible work environment, to put it lightly.

[Toast 16,129]

3 hours ago, lilham said:

I didn't say it was pedophilia; I was correcting the rewritten history about him which I don't blame people for but really downplays what was happening. There's much more going on than just an age of consent situation.
I hear "it's not pedophilia; it's ephebophilia" all the time; I know the distinction. As I worked with many people at those respective universities, they made sure we all knew that. That was part of the cover-up. It's a horrible work environment, to put it lightly.

 

I know you didn't say that.  I was referring back to the exchanges with Youth In Asia.  It's a conversation, or it should be.

 

I'm not all that interested in Epstein and his goings-on.  I feel very strongly that the word paedophilia should be kept for sexual abuse of prepubescent children because we need a word for that and we are losing it through ignorant misuse.  Language evolution is normal, but it shouldn't be allowed to impoverish the language.

[lilham 752]

5 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

I know you didn't say that.  I was referring back to the exchanges with Youth In Asia.  It's a conversation, or it should be.

 

I'm not all that interested in Epstein and his goings-on.  I feel very strongly that the word paedophilia should be kept for sexual abuse of prepubescent children because we need a word for that and we are losing it through ignorant misuse.  Language evolution is normal, but it shouldn't be allowed to impoverish the language.

Okay, I agree that words and facts should be as accurate as possible when discussing this.

There are calls in this thread to just bring it to the police or HR instead of the media when that doesn't work; bringing public pressure into situations may just be the route to get the police and HR to listen.
Ronan Farrow's book on Weinstein (and others) details what happens when someone tries to report.

[Youth in Asia 1,086]

This is getting ridiculous, he's getting more coverage than Prince Andrew ever got. The DM has 30 articles about him. I guess there is just a huge amount of clickbait material (alot of which he wrote himself). They don't seem sure whether to pin him down for a 16yo (ignoring the fact it's above the age of consent), or for chasing a girlfriend round his house 15 years ago, for making risque jokes on the radio (which he was already cancelled for once before) or for the fact he would always try and get his end away when he could (not exactly unusual behaviour in one's 20s). Now Nadine Dorries writes an article telling his wife to dump him as if that woman has a right to tell anyone to do anything.

 

The list of those keeping very quiet and hoping no-one mentions them must be long: Jonathan Ross, Noel Fielding, Noel Gallagher, Matt Morgan, most male comedians.

 

 

[maryportfuncity 10,641]

1 hour ago, Youth in Asia said:

This is getting ridiculous, he's getting more coverage than Prince Andrew ever got. The DM has 30 articles about him. I guess there is just a huge amount of clickbait material (alot of which he wrote himself). They don't seem sure whether to pin him down for a 16yo (ignoring the fact it's above the age of consent), or for chasing a girlfriend round his house 15 years ago, for making risque jokes on the radio (which he was already cancelled for once before) or for the fact he would always try and get his end away when he could (not exactly unusual behaviour in one's 20s). Now Nadine Dorries writes an article telling his wife to dump him as if that woman has a right to tell anyone to do anything.

 

The list of those keeping very quiet and hoping no-one mentions them must be long: Jonathan Ross, Noel Fielding, Noel Gallagher, Matt Morgan, most male comedians.

 

 

 

 

Ah, you beat me to it - mentioning the surreal spectacle of Nadine Dorries calling out someone for being sexually attracted to a sexually incontinent serial liar! 

[YoungWillz 21,026]

Let's apply the logic of those Brand conspiracy nuts who casually dismiss women's complaints to another couple of cases, shall we? You know, just to see how that plays out when it isn't necessarily victim focussed.

 

Case #1

 

"Not one case has been brought in a court of law convicting Jimmy Savile of any of the things he is alleged to have done. It's a disgrace this beloved entertainer's name has been sullied by these totally unproven accusations from people who waited until he was dead before coming out of the woodwork. Until he is exhumed and put on trial and convicted, he is totally innocent!"

 

Case #2

 

"Who the fuck does Nicky Campbell think he is? He is all like 'boo hoo, I was abused at school'. I mean for gawd's sake, this stuff happened over 35 years ago! Not only that, but he didn't stop going to school, did he? Kept going day in, day out, though he claims he saw sexual abuse and was rag dolled. C'mon, that teacher was well known at that school for beating up kids and fingering them anyway - common knowledge. This is an attack on teachers everywhere! That poor educator is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law! How dare Campbell put that poor man through a trial by media, using his position to make such accusations?"

 

Anybody see the double standards being applied here? Look I don't know what the truth is in Brand's case. All I do know is there is a bandwagon against women who step forward in these cases - especially when the authorities in charge have done nothing in response to complaints, or people feel they have to do the bidding of the "star". I don't advocate women getting special treatment - I advocate that they get the same treatment as men.

 

[Brad252 807]

3 hours ago, Youth in Asia said:

This is getting ridiculous, he's getting more coverage than Prince Andrew ever got. The DM has 30 articles about him. I guess there is just a huge amount of clickbait material (alot of which he wrote himself). They don't seem sure whether to pin him down for a 16yo (ignoring the fact it's above the age of consent), or for chasing a girlfriend round his house 15 years ago, for making risque jokes on the radio (which he was already cancelled for once before) or for the fact he would always try and get his end away when he could (not exactly unusual behaviour in one's 20s). Now Nadine Dorries writes an article telling his wife to dump him as if that woman has a right to tell anyone to do anything.

 

The list of those keeping very quiet and hoping no-one mentions them must be long: Jonathan Ross, Noel Fielding, Noel Gallagher, Matt Morgan, most male comedians.

 

 

"I dream of a day where I walk down the street and hear people talking about morality, sustainability and philosophy, instead of the Kardashians." - Keanu Reeves

[Sly Ronnie 878]

Kevin Spacey says hi.

[Toast 16,129]

2 hours ago, Sly Ronnie said:

Kevin Spacey says hi.

 

So does John Leslie.

[Dead Wait 1,129]

7 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

So does John Leslie.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12534453/Michael-Barrymore-support-Russell-Brand-claimed-sex-assault-coordinated-attack.html

 

So does Michael Barrymore…..

[gcreptile 10,964]

"this is what they do".... says Michael Barrymore.

"They don't like competition" says Elon Musk.

 

But who is "they"?

[time 8,592]

45 minutes ago, gcreptile said:

"this is what they do".... says Michael Barrymore.

"They don't like competition" says Elon Musk.

 

But who is "they"?

and what's in it for them?

[Youth in Asia 1,086]

I was just listening again to some of his radio shows from 2006 and 2007, they are still archived on the internet. They are hilarious, but to say he sails close to the wind is rather understating it. In the hour I heard, he had a 15yo caller asking for advice for her 16th birthday party, and his genius idea was to make it erotic themed to celebrate reaching the age of consent, they discussed Saddam Hussein's hanging and he suggested hanging Tony Blair too, he spent a couple of minutes describing how sexy the newsreader was, he advised a 40yo chap how to handle a date with an 18yo from the next village, he mentioned people having erections on several occasions. Pretty much every segment came back to sex in one way or another. His co-hosts were trying to reign him in as much as they could, with limited success. And this was on Radio 2! (Saturday afternoon IIRC). If someone from the Mail went through those shows they would have enough material on him for articles for a year.

I think unfortunately at some point his co-hosts couldn't handle him any more and left in late 2007, then Ross came in egging him on, then Sachsgate happened in 2008 and the rest is history.

 

 

[TQR 14,385]

1 hour ago, gcreptile said:

"this is what they do".... says Michael Barrymore.

"They don't like competition" says Elon Musk.

 

But who is "they"?

I think “they” collectively are “The Blob”. It’s a bunch of people who control the world and the media and something something woke something something leftist something.

[Toast 16,129]

4 hours ago, Dead Wait said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12534453/Michael-Barrymore-support-Russell-Brand-claimed-sex-assault-coordinated-attack.html

So does Michael Barrymore…..

 

Don't know why you've brought him into it.

My point was that John Leslie was publicly accused of multiple assaults and eventually acquitted of all of them.  Still destroyed his career and reputation though.

[maryportfuncity 10,641]

2 hours ago, Youth in Asia said:

I was just listening again to some of his radio shows from 2006 and 2007, they are still archived on the internet. They are hilarious, but to say he sails close to the wind is rather understating it. In the hour I heard, he had a 15yo caller asking for advice for her 16th birthday party, and his genius idea was to make it erotic themed to celebrate reaching the age of consent, they discussed Saddam Hussein's hanging and he suggested hanging Tony Blair too, he spent a couple of minutes describing how sexy the newsreader was, he advised a 40yo chap how to handle a date with an 18yo from the next village, he mentioned people having erections on several occasions. Pretty much every segment came back to sex in one way or another. His co-hosts were trying to reign him in as much as they could, with limited success. And this was on Radio 2! (Saturday afternoon IIRC). If someone from the Mail went through those shows they would have enough material on him for articles for a year.

I think unfortunately at some point his co-hosts couldn't handle him any more and left in late 2007, then Ross came in egging him on, then Sachsgate happened in 2008 and the rest is history.

 

 

 

 

Aye, the Mail excelled themselves yesterday linking Brand's fall to "the Left" - presumably nobody at The Mail has paid any attention to the overlap between his online content and current right wing conspiracy think. In other news, am I right in thinking YouTube have bravely cut off his income whilst pragmatically leaving his content up so every drive-by curiousity case can access them whilst YouTube harvest their data and charge advertisers for the right to put their wares in front of them?

 

[Tango854 278]

5 hours ago, gcreptile said:

"this is what they do".... says Michael Barrymore.

"They don't like competition" says Elon Musk.

 

But who is "they"?

90% chance they mean jews.

[Grim Up North 3,725]

9 hours ago, Brad252 said:

"I dream of a day where I walk down the street and hear people talking about morality, sustainability and philosophy, instead of the Kardashians." - Keanu Reeves

 Just sitting watching shit on TV as Ill and Family Fortunes on. Last answer in famous Davids was David Copperfield ‘Yes the magician’ exclaims Gino Di Campo.

 

I thought of your quote above as I shook my head. 

[Youth in Asia 1,086]

Yes the YouTube thing is quite strange. Demonetising someone based on some allegations of poor behaviour. Of course they love demonetizing people because it means they can keep all the money. There have been plenty of cases of YouTubers doing bad things or getting into trouble, and maybe they have worked out they are able to use it to increase their profits by doing this. 

[Youth in Asia 1,086]

So after the textbook pile in, now there are lots of articles with people defending Brand, plus the story is moving away from the headlines. I reckon a few more days and it's over. He has probably got loads of new subscribers through this, although sadly for him at the moment he can't monetise them!