Formula 1 & Other Motor Racing

[Toast 16,139]

7 hours ago, TQR said:

Chequered Flag thread, for fuck sake.

 

Why are there two motor sport threads?

[Bibliogryphon 9,577]

14 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

Why are there two motor sport threads?

 

For the same reason there is a Doctor Who thread in extra curricular - for people to discuss the current state of the thing whereas the other thread is where the bodies pile high

[TQR 14,391]

16 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

Why are there two motor sport threads?

 

Bib’s said it already, really; Extra-Curricular is for threads that aren’t about reporting deaths & obits (less the family thread). It’s why I made the Falling Fauna thread in the main forum, to get all the death out of the light-hearted sounding Animal Antics one.

[ThereWillBeDeaths7 722]

As this seems to be happening for real now: Lewis Hamilton to drive for Ferrari in 2025!

 

In some way it was bound to happen eventually but as he's been with Mercedes for 12 years after this year and will become 40 years old before the start of the 2025 season, I didn't really see it happening anymore. He'll be older than Kimi was when he left Ferrari, and he seemed to be there largely for the memes in his last years in F1.

 

A couple of grands prix wins in the next few years now seems inevitable for Hamilton, but will he get his 8th world title? I can't really see Ferrari stepping up their game to that level yet, but I guess we'll see!

[TQR 14,391]

Shows already what sort of car Mercedes are likely to have this year; another dumper truck.

 

Unfortunately for Charles, I can see a Leclerc-Hamilton pairing being like Bottas-Hamilton was, in that the former puts in an awesome quali record but Hamilton gets the better of his teammate in races. Hamiltton has aged like Alonso; he's still got it now and I daresay he will in 2-3 years time. I have to wonder what Ferrari will have by 2025, but 2026 with the reg changes is anybody's guess.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

I'm not a Hamilton fan, and it feels like a desperate throw of the dice from Lewis to try and get that 8th title and follow in the footsteps of Schumacher in returning Maranello to the top of the tree for the first time in 18+ years (it was 21 years between Jody Scheckter's victory in 1979 and Schumacher's first Ferrari triumph in 2000). And if it doesn't work, he gets a massive payday, gets to drive for Ferrari and be adored by the Tifosi (maybe?).

 

I was thinking earlier too, whether it's a part of his thinking or not, he would join very exclusive company if he does win the title, as he'll have done so with 3 separate teams: McLaren, Mercedes and Ferrari. Trying to think, I'm not sure anybody's done that since Fangio, who won his 5 titles with 4 different teams. Brabham won his 3 titles with 2 teams (Cooper and Brabham), Stewart won his 3 with 2 (Matra and Tyrrell), Lauda's 3 came with Ferrari and McLaren, Piquet's 3 came with Brabham and Williams, Prost's 4 just with McLaren and Williams and all of Senna's with McLaren. Others have come close: Prost nearly won the title with Renault, Alonso came second with both McLaren and Ferrari. But given the choice between treading water with what he clearly thinks is a substandard Mercedes and rolling the dice with Ferrari, clearly Lewis has decided that's the better option.

 

Feel sorry for Carlos, he's been excellent recently, particularly when he held off Norris and the Mercedes pair in Singapore last year. Wonder where he'll end up - I can't see Mercedes taking him somehow. And, of course, who steps in there? I'd love to see Alonso in a top car again, but is there as much chance of Aston Martin getting there as Mercedes at the moment? Think they'll go for the younger generation. Albon maybe? Too soon/risky for Mick Schumacher I suspect. Maybe Danni Ricc? Not sure they'll make the decision quickly.

[Octopus of Odstock 2,195]

On 08/11/2006 at 19:06, M.Lawrenson said:

 

And they thought Mike Thackwell and Stephen South dropped off the face of the earth when they packed it in....

 

Hmm...whatever did happen to Renzo Zorzi, though? All I've read is that he went off to test tyres for Pirelli, then nothing. There's been something approaching a flurry of interest in him recently. They discovered a new angle of the Pryce accident, available on YouTube if you dare and people wondered what he was up to (mainly having much trouble disconnecting his helmet's air tube, by the look of things). Got a mention in the Tremayne 'Lost Generation' book as well, beyond the obvious one. He won the F3 Monaco race after Tony Brise got into some 'car humping' difficulty with Alex Dias Ribero...

 

Ray Thackwell, racing driver himself, but possibly better known as the father of Mike Thackwell, has died. Also father-in-law to David Brabham.

 

Initially competed in speedway, before progressing to four wheels and Formula 2. 

 

https://forums.autosport.com/topic/225798-ray-thackwell/#entry10553575

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

Is this in the wrong F1 thread @Octopus of Odstock? 

[Father Brown 209]

On 02/02/2024 at 22:04, RoverAndOut said:

Think they'll go for the younger generation. Albon maybe? Too soon/risky for Mick Schumacher I suspect. Maybe Danni Ricc? Not sure they'll make the decision quickly.

Albon is currently confirmed to be with Williams again next year. I believe Mercedes is hoping to get F2 rookie Antonelli alongside Russell. He skipped F3 entirely, currently racing with Prema (and is currently with Mercedes Juniors). Personally I’d give Antonelli a couple more seasons in F2 because it’s quite the leap, and especially because there’s already enough F2 drivers screaming to leave. Mick needs something better than the Haas for sure, but certainly not ready for Mercedes. Wouldn’t mind him going to Williams to build up his confidence - then again can they afford it? Albon destroyed his car in practice and had to use Sargeant’s last time for the race (and still finished just outside the points) - the latter could well be dropped in 2025.

 

Ricciardo’s apparently had a warning from Marko to improve in the next couple of races or he’s being dropped in favour of Lawson. The problem is, there are so many RB-affiliated drivers waiting for a drive with either team that they’ve been forced to look elsewhere (Gasly, Albon…). Max will leave of his own accord when he’s had enough, Checo could go at any time if his form is poor, and Tsunoda’s pretty much only there for the Honda backing. Ricciardo to Mercedes very doubtful, but I don’t see them bringing in Sainz either unfortunately.

 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

16 hours ago, Father Brown said:

Albon is currently confirmed to be with Williams again next year. I believe Mercedes is hoping to get F2 rookie Antonelli alongside Russell. He skipped F3 entirely, currently racing with Prema (and is currently with Mercedes Juniors). Personally I’d give Antonelli a couple more seasons in F2 because it’s quite the leap, and especially because there’s already enough F2 drivers screaming to leave. Mick needs something better than the Haas for sure, but certainly not ready for Mercedes. Wouldn’t mind him going to Williams to build up his confidence - then again can they afford it? Albon destroyed his car in practice and had to use Sargeant’s last time for the race (and still finished just outside the points) - the latter could well be dropped in 2025.

 

Ricciardo’s apparently had a warning from Marko to improve in the next couple of races or he’s being dropped in favour of Lawson. The problem is, there are so many RB-affiliated drivers waiting for a drive with either team that they’ve been forced to look elsewhere (Gasly, Albon…). Max will leave of his own accord when he’s had enough, Checo could go at any time if his form is poor, and Tsunoda’s pretty much only there for the Honda backing. Ricciardo to Mercedes very doubtful, but I don’t see them bringing in Sainz either unfortunately.

 

To be fair, my post was before the season had started! Antonelli definitely in the conversation, but it would be risky. Sainz definitely should be in everybody's thoughts for every possible seat, be that Mercedes or Red Bull replacing Perez. Would love to see Alonso in a race-winning car again, and Seb Vettel's said this week he's considered a comeback, but doesn't have firm plans as yet (a German at Mercedes again perhaps?). Danny Ricc looks a spent force at the moment unfortunately, seems a nice guy. We now have Bearman needing a seat for next season too (probably at Haas) and Lawson (at RB). Wait until summer, it could be chaos.

[Father Brown 209]

1 hour ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

To be fair, my post was before the season had started! Antonelli definitely in the conversation, but it would be risky. Sainz definitely should be in everybody's thoughts for every possible seat, be that Mercedes or Red Bull replacing Perez. Would love to see Alonso in a race-winning car again, and Seb Vettel's said this week he's considered a comeback, but doesn't have firm plans as yet (a German at Mercedes again perhaps?). Danny Ricc looks a spent force at the moment unfortunately, seems a nice guy. We now have Bearman needing a seat for next season too (probably at Haas) and Lawson (at RB). Wait until summer, it could be chaos.

 

You're right sorry, I should've read the date! Sainz to Red Bull can work on paper, he's already the #2 at Ferrari so it's down to Max wanting to work with him really (and RB exploring their options). It would be a huge shame if there's no seats left for him - Ferrari jumped the gun dropping him for Hamilton I think. Not sure where Alonso would move if at all (especially if he's potentially close to re-retiring), so I think he'll be sticking with AM. I miss Seb but I think his time's up unfortunately, there are already enough seat-blockers without including the pay drivers. Would love to see him in a non-driving role.

 

I can see Bearman in a Haas though. Ferrari's full until the inevitable bust-up between Leclerc and Hamilton fighting to be ahead of each other in the team order, he was excellent in Sainz's Ferrari so Haas shouldn't have too much to worry about in terms of damage & he'll have one of Mag or Hulk to guide him, doubt they'll do two rookies again. This summer is going to be a complete mess and I'm here for it.

[BuffaloPhil 926]

Vettel to Mercedes in 2025 seems likely given the recent comments and Hamilton's move to Ferrari. Will be very interesting to see how that one goes.

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

Aye. Sounds like they have Antontelli in mind but not for another 2 years or  so so Vettel would be an ideal for that period.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

2 hours ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

Aye. Sounds like they have Antontelli in mind but not for another 2 years or  so so Vettel would be an ideal for that period.

 

Would also give them a world champion without hiring Fernando, which is frankly bullshit if you look at Alonso's work over the past 6 or 7 years compared to Seb's.

[TQR 14,391]

Hearing rumours of Mercedes agreeing in principle a contract with Carlos. This is the only correct decision IMO. Frankly, his race craft is a damn sight better than that of his current team mate.

 

Fernando Alonso has signed with Aston Martin again anyway, until the end of 2026.

 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

1 minute ago, TQR said:

Hearing rumours of Mercedes agreeing in principle a contract with Carlos. This is the only correct decision IMO. Frankly, his race craft is a damn sight better than that of his current team mate.

 

Fernando Alonso has signed with Aston Martin again anyway, until the end of 2026.

 

 

Interesting move from Fernando. Think he's sized it up and decided Red Bull won't choose to put him alongside Max and Mercedes are lukewarm too. Also probably looking at Mercedes v Aston Martin and, as he suggested this week, "why would I want to be in their car? It's slower." 

 

In all seriousness, it's a statement of intent for Aston Martin. If their updates this season can get them back towards the front, and they've got Honda coming on board from Red Bull, they could become a force to be reckoned with. Think Fernando has at least one more win in him if things fall his way, he's certainly still performing well enough.

 

Carlos is boxed into a corner unfortunately. He deserves so much better. But this is not the best time to be joining Mercedes, although they should be better placed than most to recover. But we've been saying that for 3 seasons. I'd love to see him in Checo's seat at Red Bull, but can see them hanging onto him if he keeps performing like last week.

[TQR 14,391]

2 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

Interesting move from Fernando. Think he's sized it up and decided Red Bull won't choose to put him alongside Max and Mercedes are lukewarm too. Also probably looking at Mercedes v Aston Martin and, as he suggested this week, "why would I want to be in their car? It's slower." 

 

In all seriousness, it's a statement of intent for Aston Martin. If their updates this season can get them back towards the front, and they've got Honda coming on board from Red Bull, they could become a force to be reckoned with. Think Fernando has at least one more win in him if things fall his way, he's certainly still performing well enough.

 

Carlos is boxed into a corner unfortunately. He deserves so much better. But this is not the best time to be joining Mercedes, although they should be better placed than most to recover. But we've been saying that for 3 seasons. I'd love to see him in Checo's seat at Red Bull, but can see them hanging onto him if he keeps performing like last week.

 

Alonso's very happy where he is because he has to really fight (except with his useless team mate) to get the good points. That's where he thrives. I agree, he hasn't had his last F1 win yet.

 

Mercedes' best chance is to focus on a complete square 1 approach for 2026, and Carlos and George would be one hell of a lineup to hit the ground running come the new regs.

 

Red Bull will keep Checo on chiefly because his feedback on the car is so vital to their development. It's a car that only really seems to suit Verstappen, but Checo's insights have helped them extend their lead.

 

The formiddable force, however, is Ferrari. Charles is the best qualifier, Lewis is the most successful driver of all time and he's got years left in the tank, Newey's coming onboard, and their car is already on the right trajectory. I'd love to see McLaren right at the top being a lifelong fan but my prediction is Ferrari dominance for a decent couple of years.

[Father Brown 209]

My concern with Ferrari is whether Hamilton and Leclerc will gel as a team. Hamilton's looking for another WDC to make up for 2021, while Leclerc's vying for his first and he knows he's capable of getting it. Neither of them will be happy about being the #2 driver in the team orders, so hopefully we get to see them racing and pushing each other on rather than falling out.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

1 hour ago, TQR said:

The formiddable force, however, is Ferrari. Charles is the best qualifier, Lewis is the most successful driver of all time and he's got years left in the tank, Newey's coming onboard, and their car is already on the right trajectory. I'd love to see McLaren right at the top being a lifelong fan but my prediction is Ferrari dominance for a decent couple of years.

 

Newey to Ferrari is a deal 25+ years in the making, and feels inevitable. But I think he's always been happiest building a team up in his image. Would love the latest rumours that Aston Martin have offered him mega bucks to be true. He doesn't need the money, but the Aston project gives similar vibes to Red Bull in the mid-00s. Would it be enough to tempt him to have one more crack at turning a midfield team into world champions? First Ferrari World Champions in 20 years would make him revered by the Tifosi, but does it excite him? And does he want to work in Italy? Decisions, decisions...

[The Immortal 634]

2 hours ago, TQR said:

Hearing rumours of Mercedes agreeing in principle a contract with Carlos. This is the only correct decision IMO. Frankly, his race craft is a damn sight better than that of his current team mate.

 

Fernando Alonso has signed with Aston Martin again anyway, until the end of 2026.

 

 

"Old" Alonso resembles old Sean Connery (kind of).

[TQR 14,391]

Nicoooh Üüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüülkenberg (to quote Danny Ric) has signed a three-year deal with Audi. Love to see it; he's an awesome, awesome driver and I hope Audi give him a car capable of some podiums. Anyway, that means for 2025:

 

- Bearman to Haas

- Sainz alongside Hülkenberg if he doesn't sign with Merc or Red Bull

- Zhou out of a seat, potentially Bottas too

 

Oh yeah, and Newey's now considering three big-money offers: Ferrari, Aston and Merc. Given the silliness of this silly season, expect him to be at Williams.

[ThereWillBeDeaths7 722]

I also love his move to Sauber, hopefully they'll be able to challenge the top teams from 2026 on. Hülkenberg getting on the podium after all those years could become a reality!

- Sainz would be the most likely candidate for the second seat, I'd say both Bottas and Zhou are gone after next year.

 

Until this news I was sure Bearman would come in at Haas at the cost of Magnussen, after Nico's departure I'd say Kevin is safe for next year. The Schumacher/Mazepin combo has surely shown the team management that they need one experienced driver to develop the car instead of wrecking it every second race.

 

Re: Newey, I got the feeling he'll be joining Aston Martin; but anything could happen right now.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

I hope Newey goes to Aston Martin. I desperately want Alonso to have a realistic shot at race wins again, as I'm certain he can still do it. Is Mercedes an exciting prospect to Newey? Probably not. Ferrari would be more interesting due to their history and prestige. But, as I said before, Aston would offer him the chance to build up a team into title contenders for the 4th time (after Williams, McLaren and Red Bull - I know the first 2 were successful before him). Surprised Audi aren't making a play for him too, he could turbocharge their entry.

 

I'm uncertain about all this hype about Audi. New manufacturers rarely hit the ground running. Toyota didn't win in 8 years of F1. Mercedes took 3 seasons before their first win and 5 before their first championship. Audi do have good motorsport pedigree, but F1 is a different animal and breaking the hegemony of the big boys is not easy, and there's so many teams fighting just behind Red Bull already: Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes, Aston Martin. Add Audi into the mix and we could have 6 teams fighting it out, which, if they're relatively equal, could be thrilling, or we could end up with Noah's Ark, 2 by 2 by 2 - no wonder they're talking about points down to 12th.

[TQR 14,391]

13 hours ago, RoverAndOut said:

I hope Newey goes to Aston Martin.

 

According to Pete Windsor, a friend of Newey's who worked with him at Williams, he has turned down the offer from Aston Martin. As I suspected, we're just awaiting confirmation now but it appears he's Ferrari-bound. 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

1 hour ago, TQR said:

 

According to Pete Windsor, a friend of Newey's who worked with him at Williams, he has turned down the offer from Aston Martin. As I suspected, we're just awaiting confirmation now but it appears he's Ferrari-bound. 

 

So Lewis comes up smelling of roses again.  Double figures for championships unless his decline has truly set in and Charles can benefit instead.