Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[Lard Bazaar 3,799]

I understand HOW to vote.  You simply stick a cross in the one that doesn’t say Conservative.  It’s how they work out the winner that I’m having difficulty with. 

[Deathray 2,940]

24 minutes ago, Lard Bazaar said:

I understand HOW to vote.  You simply stick a cross in the one that doesn’t say Conservative.  It’s how they work out the winner that I’m having difficulty with. 

 

That might not work for council elections, some areas require you to tick a cross in 3/4 candidates or rank the candidates in numerical order.

 

And the winner's the one with the most seats. 

[msc 18,443]

10 minutes ago, Lard Bazaar said:

I understand HOW to vote.  You simply stick a cross in the one that doesn’t say Conservative.  It’s how they work out the winner that I’m having difficulty with. 

 

Count the votes, guy with the most wins.

 

Ok, not in Glasgow (we have STV elections...) but trying not to complicate matters.

 

Right, ok, I'll try:

 

Nah, the local elections are for the whatever council area you come from. So me, every 5 years in Scotland, I'd vote for who I want running the bin deliveries and schools and what not in Glasgow. The BBC counts the number of councillors won, but they're all for the various different councils, and no two councils have the same number of councilors. As no one gives a shit about elections other than who gets to be PM, around about 30% of British voters bother to turn out to actual vote in them.

 

And, people might not vote in any way like they'd vote if it was to determine the Prime Minister. You might think Theresa May is a complete cunt, but that Bob Tory down the road does a good job of getting the bin men to take you rubbish away, and that when Johnny Come Labour Guy was previously in charge, the bins were late, and that bit over the road was full of rats. So you vote for the local guy you like, even if he's in the same club as the PM you hate. Or vice versa, you think Jeremy Corbyn is as nutty as squirrel shit, but Councillor Johnny Come Labour Guy is really good at getting potholes fixed or what not.

 

So really, it means absolutely feck all. Which is why everyone tries to make it the most meaningful thing in the world. It's all back ground noise, except perhaps in Barnet, where specifically it looks like enough people were scared that Corbyn wants to get rid of the Jews to swing it for the Tories. But that's an outlier, not the norm. If you want trends, the places that really want Brexit are still voting for Brexit, and those who didn't aren't. And in the three actual Tory vs Lib Dem council fights, the Tories got their arses handed to them. Which was really funny. (Sorry Sean)

 

In short, Labour won the most councillors across all of England, but didn't pick up any net gains of councils (ie they lost one more than they won), the Tories lost councillors but won enough off UKIP (who are dead) to make it look like they did OK (and they still are in power anyhow), the Lib Dems did very well compared to Clegg era but they always do well in the locals, UKIP died a death, and we don't get to vote on the Prime Minister until 2022 most likely, but that wont stop every politician and media outlet treating everything like it was a referendum result on that.

 

 

Ok, hope that helps.

 

[charon 4,943]

Fuck that msc , that's complicated.

 

 

Vote charon.

 

 

That's the way forward.

[Lard Bazaar 3,799]

6 hours ago, msc said:

 

Count the votes, guy with the most wins.

 

Ok, not in Glasgow (we have STV elections...) but trying not to complicate matters.

 

Right, ok, I'll try:

 

Nah, the local elections are for the whatever council area you come from. So me, every 5 years in Scotland, I'd vote for who I want running the bin deliveries and schools and what not in Glasgow. The BBC counts the number of councillors won, but they're all for the various different councils, and no two councils have the same number of councilors. As no one gives a shit about elections other than who gets to be PM, around about 30% of British voters bother to turn out to actual vote in them.

 

And, people might not vote in any way like they'd vote if it was to determine the Prime Minister. You might think Theresa May is a complete cunt, but that Bob Tory down the road does a good job of getting the bin men to take you rubbish away, and that when Johnny Come Labour Guy was previously in charge, the bins were late, and that bit over the road was full of rats. So you vote for the local guy you like, even if he's in the same club as the PM you hate. Or vice versa, you think Jeremy Corbyn is as nutty as squirrel shit, but Councillor Johnny Come Labour Guy is really good at getting potholes fixed or what not.

 

So really, it means absolutely feck all. Which is why everyone tries to make it the most meaningful thing in the world. It's all back ground noise, except perhaps in Barnet, where specifically it looks like enough people were scared that Corbyn wants to get rid of the Jews to swing it for the Tories. But that's an outlier, not the norm. If you want trends, the places that really want Brexit are still voting for Brexit, and those who didn't aren't. And in the three actual Tory vs Lib Dem council fights, the Tories got their arses handed to them. Which was really funny. (Sorry Sean)

 

In short, Labour won the most councillors across all of England, but didn't pick up any net gains of councils (ie they lost one more than they won), the Tories lost councillors but won enough off UKIP (who are dead) to make it look like they did OK (and they still are in power anyhow), the Lib Dems did very well compared to Clegg era but they always do well in the locals, UKIP died a death, and we don't get to vote on the Prime Minister until 2022 most likely, but that wont stop every politician and media outlet treating everything like it was a referendum result on that.

 

 

Ok, hope that helps.

 

Thank you  I don’t really know why I’m bothered, we didn’t even have an election in my area and they’re all cunts anyway  especially the snooty bitch that is the leader of our council. 

[Zsa Zsa's leg 884]

Not sure if this is the right thread for election coverage, so if I need, I might make the ZZL election coverage thread for this year's midterms. Regardless, this qualifies as a rant. 

Anyways, is anybody watching the West Virginia Senate race?

It's very interesting for a state that voted for Donald J. Trump over Hillary Clinton by 42.1%, a full county sweep for the President, a feat only matched by Oklahoma and Nebraska, to have elected a Democratic Senator as recently as 2012, and even a Democratic Governor the same year as they went in packs to the polls to vote for a man of the opposite party (Albeit, the Governor switched parties in August of last year).

Regardless, both primaries vying for Senator Joe Manchin's are a fucking mess, but mostly the Republican primary, with 3 major candidates.

Congressman Evan Jenkins of the 3rd congressional district (the state's most conservative district, although, it is considered the most competitive in this year's house races), is the frontrunner according to a recent Fox News poll. Despite beating the other two candidates, Jenkins only sported 25% of the vote in that poll compared to 21% for Attorney General Morrisey and 16% for Mr. Blankenship. Jenkins is often considered the most moderate of the 3 candidates, having only become a Republican in 2013, 1 year before he defeated Congressman Nick Rahall in 2014. Jenkins also admitted to supporting then Senator Hillary Clinton in 2008 and he at first refused to endorse then candidate Trump in the 2016 Republican primary. Jenkins denies being a RINO (Republican-In-Name-Only) touting that he is the only major candidate in the primary that voted for President Trump in the electoral college. Jenkins is also the only candidate that has lived in West Virginia for a majority of their life.

The man closely behind Congressman Jenkins is State Attorney General Patrick Morrisey. Morrisey ran for Congress in 2000 in the state of New Jersey's 7th congressional district. Having come in last in that race, Morrisey moved to West Virginia and began his career after becoming the state's Attorney General in 2013. Morrisey closely aligns himself with President Trump, having competed with Jenkins for the "Trumpian vote." In spite of his new allegiance to the President, Morrisey has been tied to Senator Ted Cruz, having even been endorsed by the Senator. 

The most, unhinged, candidate in the Republican primary and my personal favorite, is coal baron and ex-convict Don Blankenship. Blankenship was indicted in 2014 by a federal grand jury for conspiracy to violate mandatory federal mine safety and health standards, conspiracy to impede federal mine safety officials, making false statements to the Securities and Exchange Commission, and securities fraud. These indictments came in response to the deaths of 38 coal miners in the 2010 Upper Big Branch mining disaster. Blankenship claims the Obama justice department's "war on coal" is what caused the explosion. Blankenship has lived in Nevada recently and still pays taxes in the state.

Meanwhile, for the Democrats, longshot "justice democrat" Paula Jean Swearengin is considered unlikely to win in her primary challenege to Senator Manchin. 

[YoungWillz 21,044]

I saw a bit of Blankenship's campaign ad in which he went after Mitch McConnell (who I understand thinks Blankenship will lose the GOP the election). He's expressed no remorse for the mine disaster as he was simply "enforcing federal regulations" (damn you Obama!).

 

Any other US posters have any juicy statewide gossip for the forthcoming midterms?

[Zsa Zsa's leg 884]

Just now, YoungWillz said:

I saw a bit of Blankenship's campaign ad in which he went after Mitch McConnell (who I understand thinks Blankenship will lose the GOP the election). He's expressed no remorse for the mine disaster as he was simply "enforcing federal regulations" (damn you Obama!).

 

Any other US posters have any juicy statewide gossip for the forthcoming midterms?

Ahh yes, forgot to mention Blankenship's "cocaine Mitch advertisement." 

Anyways, I do know quite a bit about the dynamics of the Senate and most competitive house races. The most interesting races are the ones with competitive primaries and two very well known candidates like Bill Nelson vs Rick Scott in Florida, Heidi Heitkamp vs Kevin Cramer in North Dakota, and Jacky Rosen vs Dean Heller in Nevada. But right now, the races I have my eyes glued to are Arizona, Indiana, and West Virginia with IN and WV holding their primaries on Tuesday. I could go in depth but I don't want to litter this thread. Just know that all 3 of those Republican primaries have their own peculariaties, crazy candidates, campaign finance stories, and razor tight polls. 

[Bibliogryphon 9,579]

Is there anything in the mid-terms which might suggest who might take the Democratic Nomination for the 2020 Presidential Election?

[Joey Russ 7,226]

20 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

Is there anything in the mid-terms which might suggest who might take the Democratic Nomination for the 2020 Presidential Election?

There’s a lot of people who want Oprah Winfrey to win the democratic nomination, but I don’t want that to happen...

[N. Fritz 49]

7 minutes ago, Joey Russ said:

There’s a lot of people who want Oprah Winfrey to win the democratic nomination, but I don’t want that to happen...

What about Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson?

[Zsa Zsa's leg 884]

1 hour ago, N. Fritz said:

What about Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson?

He's a Republican.

[Zsa Zsa's leg 884]

2 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

Is there anything in the mid-terms which might suggest who might take the Democratic Nomination for the 2020 Presidential Election?

Yes. Not many but yes. Some say that Sherrod Brown, Kirsten Gillibrand, and Elizabeth Warren could run and they're all up for re-election this year.

[Zsa Zsa's leg 884]

1 hour ago, Joey Russ said:

There’s a lot of people who want Oprah Winfrey to win the democratic nomination, but I don’t want that to happen...

Oprah wouldn't be nearly as bad as who the Democrats are eyeing right now... *cough* Kamala Harris *cough* Cory Booker *cough* Kirsten Gillibrand *cough* Joe Biden *cough*. 

I have always said, you can't bring a knife to a gun fight. The only personality that could beat Trump is somebody like Trump. Like a businessperson, or a reality star, Oprah fits both categories. Oprah would also be great for minority turnout and she has enormous name recognition. 

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

36 minutes ago, Zsa Zsa's leg said:

Oprah wouldn't be nearly as bad as who the Democrats are eyeing right now... *cough* Kamala Harris *cough* Cory Booker *cough* Kirsten Gillibrand *cough* Joe Biden *cough*. 

I have always said, you can't bring a knife to a gun fight. The only personality that could beat Trump is somebody like Trump. Like a businessperson, or a reality star, Oprah fits both categories. Oprah would also be great for minority turnout and she has enormous name recognition. 

........or maybe a fucking GOOD Politician.

Clinton was anything but and, obviously, having a campaign that centered on the premise that the Democrats only had to turn up to beat that bum Trump was both moronic and conceited.

Trump played a blinder, love him or hate him. The greater good of US Politics ignored whole swathes of American society, the people that once worked in Car Industries, Mines, Steel plants, all those millions of Yanks who used to get up to go to work and put a shift in then come home, mow the lawn and then go to the store in the Dodge pick up then come home and watch Saturday Night live or summat.

What Trump promised, pretty much a return to/growth in manufacturing, was bollocks but, when all before promised nothing and delivered even less than nothing, what did they really have to lose?

Fuck all.

Oprah will gain no more votes than Clinton, fuck, people STILL don't get it, somebody has to promise to deliver JOBS more than a cohesive society.

Nobody got fed hugging somebody, nobody paid the mortgage with kind words and nobody will give a shit about a fragmented society until there are jobs, jobs and more jobs.

With jobs comes self esteem and you cannot care about your brothers and sisters, the migrants and foreign policy if you have had all your self esteem kicked out of you by successive administrations that postured, preened and excelled at sound bites but actually changed not a fucking thing that made a difference to the millions that actually mattered.

How the fuck will Oprah bring jobs to Wisconsin, Ohio and the like?

Aye, she will employ them all through Harpo Productions.

[msc 18,443]

^^ Has a point, you know.

 

Also remember 2012 election. "I like to fire people" vs "General Motors is still alive". Facts might be stretched but perception sticks.

[Zsa Zsa's leg 884]

15 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

........or maybe a fucking GOOD Politician.

Clinton was anything but and, obviously, having a campaign that centered on the premise that the Democrats only had to turn up to beat that bum Trump was both moronic and conceited.

Trump played a blinder, love him or hate him. The greater good of US Politics ignored whole swathes of American society, the people that once worked in Car Industries, Mines, Steel plants, all those millions of Yanks who used to get up to go to work and put a shift in then come home, mow the lawn and then go to the store in the Dodge pick up then come home and watch Saturday Night live or summat.

What Trump promised, pretty much a return to/growth in manufacturing, was bollocks but, when all before promised nothing and delivered even less than nothing, what did they really have to lose?

Fuck all.

Oprah will gain no more votes than Clinton, fuck, people STILL don't get it, somebody has to promise to deliver JOBS more than a cohesive society.

Nobody got fed hugging somebody, nobody paid the mortgage with kind words and nobody will give a shit about a fragmented society until there are jobs, jobs and more jobs.

With jobs comes self esteem and you cannot care about your brothers and sisters, the migrants and foreign policy if you have had all your self esteem kicked out of you by successive administrations that postured, preened and excelled at sound bites but actually changed not a fucking thing that made a difference to the millions that actually mattered.

How the fuck will Oprah bring jobs to Wisconsin, Ohio and the like?

Aye, she will employ them all through Harpo Productions.

Good and politician is an oxymoron.

Now I don't support Oprah, in fact I'm all behind my state's Governor John Bel Edwards. But what I'm saying is that Oprah is somebody that can dig into the recently populist tone of this country, she's not a traditional politician and that's what gave Trump the Presidency. 

I hope it never comes down to Winfrey vs Trump but if it does, I guarantee you Oprah would overperform Hillary.

 

[Zsa Zsa's leg 884]

Honestly, the Democrats are fucked if they go with one of the frontrunners. Corporate leeches that will change nothing from Trump other than say something about the gays on June 26th and  stay in the climate deal. Traditional politicians like Gillibrand, Booker, Harris, Brown, and Warren are why we ended up with Trump. 

[Sir Creep 7,070]

8 minutes ago, Zsa Zsa's leg said:

Good and politician is an oxymoron.

Now I don't support Oprah, in fact I'm all behind my state's Governor John Bel Edwards.

 

Wait....WHAT?!  Another Louisianan?

[charon 4,943]

No difference though.

 

Democrats are viewed as Nazis in the rest of the World.

 

Republicans are further to the Right.

 

Your country is fucked regardless.

 

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

3 minutes ago, Zsa Zsa's leg said:

Good and politician is an oxymoron.

Now I don't support Oprah, in fact I'm all behind my state's Governor John Bel Edwards. But what I'm saying is that Oprah is somebody that can dig into the recently populist tone of this country, she's not a traditional politician and that's what gave Trump the Presidency. 

I hope it never comes down to Winfrey vs Trump but if it does, I guarantee you Oprah would overperform Hillary.

 

There are good Politicians out there. They tend not to promise the earth but actually try to deliver it anyway.

What gave Trump the Presidency was more than the sum total that he was no Politician, he was also seen to be a hugely rich and hugely successful businessman that was a mover and shaker. A powerful, no nonsense businessman that could kick 'ass'

Oprah is a businesswoman in a different sphere, successful but not in a way that would convince Trump voters that she would be a better bet.

The fact that his family built the empire before he was a twinkle in the eye was not really an issue, the guy was a powerful voice, a business professional and a plain speaker who said what millions thought but dared not to say.

Again, the rights and wrongs are not important, what is important is that Oprah will not beat Trump if she started to campaign last year,  she will be found out PDQ.

This notion that she can dig into the 'populist' tone of the country is no different to Corbyn, over here,  being the voice of the people.

He attracts many but that is not a whole country, people still do not think he is capable of leading us to the promised land.

Oprah will not be any different to millions of US citizens.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

7 minutes ago, charon said:

No difference though.

 

Democrats are viewed as Nazis in the rest of the World.

 

Republicans are further to the Right.

 

Your country is fucked regardless.

 

[N. Fritz 49]

2 hours ago, Zsa Zsa's leg said:

He's a Republican.

Really??? You could knock me over with a feather... I could have sworn he was at least independent!

[msc 18,443]

He's not. He's a centrist independent, though that doesn't stop both sides trying to claim him for their own.

[N. Fritz 49]

1 minute ago, msc said:

He's not. He's a centrist independent, though that doesn't stop both sides trying to claim him for their own.

Thank msc for confirming my intuition!