Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

Absolutley on brand for Grayling to miss out on a job where the selection process was rigged for him to get it.

 

 

 

 

 

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

[TQR 14,402]

What a surprise the Standard (edited by Cameron’s sister-in-law, previously by George Osborne) didn’t run with this...

 

[TQR 14,402]

This sounds very promising!
 

 

[Miracle Aligner 249]

Between Germany banning the burka from schools, France introducing on the spot fines for drug use and Poland leaving the treaty on not hitting women, does anyone feel like were heading into the neofascist government age? 

[time 8,618]

6 hours ago, Miracle Aligner said:

Between Germany banning the burka from schools, France introducing on the spot fines for drug use and Poland leaving the treaty on not hitting women, does anyone feel like were heading into the neofascist government age? 

You missed Trump's stormtroopers off the list.

[Youth in Asia 1,087]

7 hours ago, Miracle Aligner said:

Between Germany banning the burka from schools, France introducing on the spot fines for drug use and Poland leaving the treaty on not hitting women, does anyone feel like were heading into the neofascist government age? 

 

Who exactly thinks Burqas should be allowed in schools??

[TQR 14,402]

40 minutes ago, Youth in Asia said:

 

Who exactly thinks Burqas should be allowed in schools??

 

Why shouldn't it?

[Youth in Asia 1,087]

If you think it's OK to force kids to wear this, then I can't really help you.

[Grim Up North 3,727]

Reduces the risk of covid spreading 

[TQR 14,402]

43 minutes ago, Youth in Asia said:

If you think it's OK to force kids to wear this, then I can't really help you.

 

I didn't say anything about 'forcing' anyone to wear them. I just asked you why you think they shouldn't have the choice to wear them.

[Miracle Aligner 249]

1 hour ago, Youth in Asia said:

 

Who exactly thinks Burqas should be allowed in schools??

 

It's the parents choice what their kids wear, not the governments. 

[time 8,618]

1 hour ago, Youth in Asia said:

If you think it's OK to force kids to wear this, then I can't really help you.

Should kids be forced to wear this...?

[Youth in Asia 1,087]

1 hour ago, The Quim Reaper said:

 

I didn't say anything about 'forcing' anyone to wear them. I just asked you why you think they shouldn't have the choice to wear them.

 

I live in  a Muslim country and if you think young girls have a choice on whether they can wear a burqa or for that matter have their vagina mutilated in FGM, then unfortunately you are incorrect. They have no choice, the parents decide for them. If they try to object they are subjected to unbearable social pressure from family and school and told they are bad people. What 5 year old could fight against that. I've seen it too many times at first hand and it is really depressing.

 

And no I don't see anything wrong with kids being forced to wear formal clothes for school which allow their faces to be seen and for them to interact with others.

[TQR 14,402]

20 minutes ago, Youth in Asia said:

 

I live in  a Muslim country and if you think young girls have a choice on whether they can wear a burqa or for that matter have their vagina mutilated in FGM, then unfortunately you are incorrect. They have no choice, the parents decide for them. If they try to object they are subjected to unbearable social pressure from family and school and told they are bad people. What 5 year old could fight against that. I've seen it too many times at first hand and it is really depressing.

 

And no I don't see anything wrong with kids being forced to wear formal clothes for school which allow their faces to be seen and for them to interact with others.

 

MA started on the point where the burqa is being banned from schools in Germany, a country like most in the West where one would expect social freedoms including freedom of peaceful religious expression, such as wearing traditional religious dress like the burqa. My point is that everyone should have a right to these freedoms. Do you think this is wrong?

 

Just to be clear, nobody at any point denied that the horrendous oppression you described happens in some countries.

[Toast 16,152]

4 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said:

 

MA started on the point where the burqa is being banned from schools in Germany, a country like most in the West where one would expect social freedoms including freedom of peaceful religious expression, such as wearing traditional religious dress like the burqa. My point is that everyone should have a right to these freedoms. Do you think this is wrong?

 

 

Children generally aren't given the right to choose though.   It's the parents who decide what the child wears.

[TQR 14,402]

3 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

Children generally aren't given the right to choose though.   It's the parents who decide what the child wears.

 

But that's the same with most aspects of life, until the child is old enough to make the decision for themselves.

[Toast 16,152]

21 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said:

But that's the same with most aspects of life, until the child is old enough to make the decision for themselves.

 

Exactly - and I was responding to your comments which imply that they should have a choice.

 

2 hours ago, The Quim Reaper said:

I didn't say anything about 'forcing' anyone to wear them. I just asked you why you think they shouldn't have the choice to wear them.

 

[time 8,618]

1 hour ago, Youth in Asia said:

 

I live in  a Muslim country and if you think young girls have a choice on whether they can wear a burqa or for that matter have their vagina mutilated in FGM, then unfortunately you are incorrect. They have no choice, the parents decide for them. If they try to object they are subjected to unbearable social pressure from family and school and told they are bad people. What 5 year old could fight against that. I've seen it too many times at first hand and it is really depressing.

 

And no I don't see anything wrong with kids being forced to wear formal clothes for school which allow their faces to be seen and for them to interact with others.

So its the face covering you object to.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,219]

1 hour ago, time said:

Should kids be forced to wear this...?

School uniforms are to prevent poorer children being bullied because they are not wearing the latest designer clothing.

I think we all ( of a certain age ) remember that some kids came to school in £100 trainers while others wore Tesco specials.

The uniform is as much a leveller between with wealthier and poorer families as the school identity it endeavours to portray.

The interesting point is that, for whatever religious or cultural reasons, the burqa clad child turning up for school is immediately considered 'different' and in a minority.

Fucking hell, why cannot people wake up to the whole idea that the whole fucking thing perpetuates social segregation, virtually, from the cradle?

My primary school was a united nations of kids, all religions and cultures and NO child turned up wearing a Burqa and I never saw a single adult female wear one when I was growing up in North London ( Harringay ) so, this whole notion that it has to be worn 'It MUST be worn' is a bit bollocks.

Is it REALLY so unreasonable to expect people, welcomed into this country, to understand that the face is a vital component in how we communicate to each other?

We are now walking around shops in masks, do we truly feel comfortable wearing them? Are we really happy to? Would we welcome a life where we would have to wear then indoors and out?

I don't think so, and it has bugger all to do with vanity but everything to do with how we go about our daily lives, reading each others faces as we  walk past strangers, how we communicate our views, feelings and thoughts to people we meet daily etc.

I am as much of a fan of religious and cultural expression as the next person but, sometimes, just sometimes, we have to draw the line and explain that, in order to feel part of the society you have chosen to live within, you have to make the odd concession just as we have had to in accommodating people who have a way of life that feels totally alien to a majority of citizens.

It is give and take and, honestly, there has been much giving from some sections of society and much taking from others.

Getting rid of the Burqa would not seriously compromise peoples religious beliefs or cultural needs but it would be a big step in telling people that they were open to facial communication, integration and understanding of a society and their cultural requirements.

That is not racist, it is pure common sense.

[Toast 16,152]

Well said, LFN.  Every time I've had to be somewhere with my lower face covered, I've missed the simple fact of smiling at people.  A smile does a lot of work without you having to utter a word. 

[msc 18,479]

49 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

School uniforms are to prevent poorer children being bullied because they are not wearing the latest designer clothing.

I think we all ( of a certain age ) remember that some kids came to school in £100 trainers while others wore Tesco specials.

The uniform is as much a leveller between with wealthier and poorer families as the school identity it endeavours to portray.

 

Most days of the year I'd agree with you, but I've just had to shell out for the wean's new uniform and am feeling distinctly poorer...

 

Just now, Toast said:

Well said, LFN.  Every time I've had to be somewhere with my lower face covered, I've missed the simple fact of smiling at people.  A smile does a lot of work without you having to utter a word. 

 

Being Glaswegian, so does a scowl!

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

 

 

 

[time 8,618]

34 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said:

School uniforms are to prevent poorer children being bullied because they are not wearing the latest designer clothing.

I think we all ( of a certain age ) remember that some kids came to school in £100 trainers while others wore Tesco specials.

The uniform is as much a leveller between with wealthier and poorer families as the school identity it endeavours to portray.

The interesting point is that, for whatever religious or cultural reasons, the burqa clad child turning up for school is immediately considered 'different' and in a minority.

Fucking hell, why cannot people wake up to the whole idea that the whole fucking thing perpetuates social segregation, virtually, from the cradle?

My primary school was a united nations of kids, all religions and cultures and NO child turned up wearing a Burqa and I never saw a single adult female wear one when I was growing up in North London ( Harringay ) so, this whole notion that it has to be worn 'It MUST be worn' is a bit bollocks.

Is it REALLY so unreasonable to expect people, welcomed into this country, to understand that the face is a vital component in how we communicate to each other?

We are now walking around shops in masks, do we truly feel comfortable wearing them? Are we really happy to? Would we welcome a life where we would have to wear then indoors and out?

I don't think so, and it has bugger all to do with vanity but everything to do with how we go about our daily lives, reading each others faces as we  walk past strangers, how we communicate our views, feelings and thoughts to people we meet daily etc.

I am as much of a fan of religious and cultural expression as the next person but, sometimes, just sometimes, we have to draw the line and explain that, in order to feel part of the society you have chosen to live within, you have to make the odd concession just as we have had to in accommodating people who have a way of life that feels totally alien to a majority of citizens.

It is give and take and, honestly, there has been much giving from some sections of society and much taking from others.

Getting rid of the Burqa would not seriously compromise peoples religious beliefs or cultural needs but it would be a big step in telling people that they were open to facial communication, integration and understanding of a society and their cultural requirements.

That is not racist, it is pure common sense.

I agree with much of this; I grew up in a multi-racial city  and never saw a burqa either, but my point was about 'forcing' kids to wear specific clothes. Fundamentally, I don't see much difference in our local catholic school requiring kids to wear uniform and muslim schools requiring kids to wear burqas.

 

When it comes to oppression of adults, thats a whole different ball-game.

 

To answer your question about wearing masks in shops, I'm as comfortable with that as I am about sneezing into a handkerchief or covering my mouth when I cough.

[Gooseberry Crumble 5,346]

 

 

Interesting and eventful times predicted....