Toast 16,129 Posted February 15 36 minutes ago, The Old Crem said: Whatever the mainstream Jewish community sees anti - Semitic is anti semitic.Same with any other minority group No, it isn't. Or it shouldn't be. That's like saying that to disapprove of Russia's invasion of Ukraine is to condemn all Russian people everywhere. 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Death Impends 7,957 Posted February 15 All the "criticizing Israel's government is anti-Semitism!" talking point does is enable actual anti-Semitism with how badly it's diluted the term's meaning. Which is disgusting given how odious actual anti-Semitism is. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
En Passant 3,741 Posted February 15 Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I'll give you this much Crem. you consistently remain polite whilst concurrently forcing me to be anything but. It's a talent. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AstroKat 528 Posted February 15 21 minutes ago, Death Impends said: All the "criticizing Israel's government is anti-Semitism!" talking point does is enable actual anti-Semitism with how badly it's diluted the term's meaning. Which is disgusting given how odious actual anti-Semitism is. From the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of anti-Semitism https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism "criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic." However, "Applying double standards (to Israel) by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation" is anti-Semitic We are not applying a double standard here. If any other democratic nation was doing what Israel are doing now then the response would be the same. Attacking individual or groups of Jews for the actions of Israel is anti-Semitic, and should be prosecuted. 8 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sod's Law 445 Posted February 15 54 minutes ago, AstroKat said: From the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of anti-Semitism https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definition-antisemitism "criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as anti-Semitic." However, "Applying double standards (to Israel) by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation" is anti-Semitic We are not applying a double standard here. If any other democratic nation was doing what Israel are doing now then the response would be the same. Attacking individual or groups of Jews for the actions of Israel is anti-Semitic, and should be prosecuted. There's also an annoying lack of consistency around the term 'anti-Zionism' which doesn't help. There's a huge difference between (rightfully) criticising the Israeli government for their barbaric warmongering and settlements on occupied Palestinian land, and completely denying Israel's right to exist as a state, which is a much more radical view (unless you also think that countries like the US and Australia also don't have a right to exist because they were also originally founded by 'settler-colonists'). Yet both are tarred with the 'anti-Zionist' brush while ignoring the nuances. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toast 16,129 Posted February 15 1 hour ago, En Passant said: Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Thanks for the reminder. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungWillz 21,026 Posted February 15 I'm afraid this is the same sort of crap that passes for a feeding hysteria whipped up by the fourth estate on behalf of their Tory paymasters. As far as I can see, Ali was treading a thin thin line on criticism of the Israeli state. He was perhaps wrong to conflate that with a conspiracy theory about Israel's knowledge aforehand of October 7th. (Personally, I think that there are no depths to what Netanyahu might do, especially while faced by protest and dissent at home - a war is always the last resort of a desperate politician). Other things he said though were clearly anti-Semitic and when that came to light Starmer booted his arse. I mean, we all remember the Enemies of The People headline about judges who dared to strike down Government policy - which has effectively been used again recently. No better than describing all "refugees" as illegal immigrants, who are only tagged with that because the UK government has made their routes to safety illegal. Many sane and educated people know this - but there are many more who are not and readily squeezed for their juices by the Tories and the press. As an aside, the majority of a minority are not always right in what they say and should be accepted as gospel. I for one can agree and disagree in equal measure with Tatchell for example on many of his invective and actions. The ones with power or publicity or the loudest voices may be the face a group, they don't always represent the personal feelings of many in a group. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Old Crem 3,582 Posted February 15 16 minutes ago, YoungWillz said: I'm afraid this is the same sort of crap that passes for a feeding hysteria whipped up by the fourth estate on behalf of their Tory paymasters. As far as I can see, Ali was treading a thin thin line on criticism of the Israeli state. He was perhaps wrong to conflate that with a conspiracy theory about Israel's knowledge aforehand of October 7th. (Personally, I think that there are no depths to what Netanyahu might do, especially while faced by protest and dissent at home - a war is always the last resort of a desperate politician). Other things he said though were clearly anti-Semitic and when that came to light Starmer booted his arse. I mean, we all remember the Enemies of The People headline about judges who dared to strike down Government policy - which has effectively been used again recently. No better than describing all "refugees" as illegal immigrants, who are only tagged with that because the UK government has made their routes to safety illegal. Many sane and educated people know this - but there are many more who are not and readily squeezed for their juices by the Tories and the press. As an aside, the majority of a minority are not always right in what they say and should be accepted as gospel. I for one can agree and disagree in equal measure with Tatchell for example on many of his invective and actions. The ones with power or publicity or the loudest voices may be the face a group, they don't always represent the personal feelings of many in a group. His actions today have shown his true colours. He is now angling for the Galloway vote. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungWillz 21,026 Posted February 15 11 minutes ago, The Old Crem said: His actions today have shown his true colours. He is now angling for the Galloway vote. Don't understand what you mean in response to my observation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,385 Posted February 15 3 minutes ago, YoungWillz said: Don't understand what you mean in response to my observation. Silly cunt doesn’t know what he means either so I wouldn’t worry about chasing it up. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Old Crem 3,582 Posted February 15 https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/25956761/sadiq-khan-slammed-for-splurging-6m/ Shows they don’t understand Romford if they think Liberty is a made up name. The Liberty shopping centre has been there years for start. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,385 Posted February 16 Kingswood by-election result: LAB gain from CON Labour: 11,176 Conservatives: 8,675 Reform UK: 2,578 Green Party: 1,459 Liberal Democrats: 861 UKIP: 129 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RoverAndOut 4,746 Posted February 16 4 minutes ago, TQR said: Kingswood by-election result: LAB gain from CON Labour: 11,176 Conservatives: 8,675 Reform UK: 2,578 Green Party: 1,459 Liberal Democrats: 861 UKIP: 129 Conservatives + Reform = 11, 253 Simplistic, but Tories would have won by 77 votes. That will be a discussion point. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,385 Posted February 16 6 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said: Conservatives + Reform = 11, 253 Simplistic, but Tories would have won by 77 votes. That will be a discussion point. If tactical voting were in play on both sides: LAB + GRN + LDEM = 13,496 CON + REF + UKIP = 11,382 This NEEDS to be a discussion point! 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,385 Posted February 16 Kingswood MP Damien Egan made another reference to “Rishi’s Recession” in his victory speech. We’ll be hearing that line a lot over the next few months, I reckon. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brad252 807 Posted February 16 21 minutes ago, TQR said: If tactical voting were in play on both sides: LAB + GRN + LDEM = 13,496 CON + REF + UKIP = 11,382 This NEEDS to be a discussion point! WhoKIP? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,385 Posted February 16 11 minutes ago, Brad252 said: WhoKIP? Ikr! There are somehow still 129 of the fucks in Kingswood 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,385 Posted February 16 Wellingborough by-election result: LAB gain from CON Labour: 13,844 Conservatives: 7,408 Reform UK: 3,919 Liberal Democrats: 1,422 Marion Turner-Hawes (Independent): 1,115 Green Party: 1,020 Kevin Watts (Independent): 533 Britain First: 477 The Official Monster Raving Loony Party: 217 Andre Pyne-Bailey (Independent): 172 Ankit Love Jknpp Jay Mala Post-Mortem (Independent): 18 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bibliogryphon 9,570 Posted February 16 That is a huge result. Overturning an 18,000 Conservative majority at the last election. Neighbouring constituency to mine. First Labour MP in the county since 2015 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,385 Posted February 16 18 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said: That is a huge result. Overturning an 18,000 Conservative majority at the last election. Neighbouring constituency to mine. First Labour MP in the county since 2015 18,540 Con majority to 6,436 Lab is enormous. Second largest Con-Lab swing since WWII. Reform, Britain First and all the Independents combined amount to 6.2k so it’s a good result for Labour as well as bad for the Tories. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,641 Posted February 16 5 hours ago, RoverAndOut said: Conservatives + Reform = 11, 253 Simplistic, but Tories would have won by 77 votes. That will be a discussion point. Yeah, but - John Curtice was discussing that this morning, a recent poll suggested if there were no Reform candidate over 30% of those voting Reform wouldn't vote Conservative (either UKIP, though they're practically irrelevent now, or wouldn't vote at all). That stat would be enough to nix the hypothetical 77 vote win. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,641 Posted February 16 Today's front page - deckchairs and the Titanic come to mind, or is it just me? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prussianblue 1,026 Posted February 16 Surprised we don't have any discussion of actual results from noted psephologist Sir Old Crem? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
