Political Discussions And Ranting Thread

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

Alexander van der Bellen is the new president of Austria. Murphy's law coming true.

Which way has your vote gone today?

[Sir Creep 7,070]

Us Louisianians get to vote for the last US Senate seat opening in a week. Oh joy!

Last of the Clintrump election monies pouring in--adverts never ending.

SC

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

Here we go again with British values http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38358164 Free speech is one of them of course as long as you don't say anything against the values! But what should be included: moaning about the weather; misquoting Churchill; being useless at international football; kebab eating after a piss-up - what would be your key British values?

[Deathray 2,940]

NHS crisis! Could it lead to a new Prime Minister?

[the_engineer 1,415]

NHS crisis! Could it lead to a new Prime Minister?

Could do but who? Philip Hammond? Boris Johnson? I doubt anyone wants the job! Boris would be PM now if he never dropped out so he clearly doesn't want it. No appetite with the Conservatives to rock the boat they're 10 to 14 points ahead in most polls over Labour. Labour don't want an election now (which is why they're delaying the Copeland by-election) as it will likely lead to 100 seats or more majority with the Tories. So Theresa is in power for a long time at least until 2025. I can't see there being anything other than a tory govt for a generation or longer. Something similar happened in Japan were conservative parties ruled and won elections from 1954 to 2009.

[WednesdayAddams 103]

I don't think I have ever seen such a shower of twits as this present mob in my life! There's none of them I would trust to make a cup of tea properly. I agree, no one really wants it at the moment and who can blame them? I wouldn't sort out that bloody mess either.

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

NHS crisis! Could it lead to a new Prime Minister?

No.

[WednesdayAddams 103]

Putting this here because the Trump thread isn't appropriate but it's all linked...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38603294?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

 

Now we're off to the races! I'll bet this isn't the only investigation bubbling away or about to launch in the final Obama days. Some of them we won't hear about until it's all over.

[YoungWillz 21,047]

Trump is already crowing about the repeal of "Obamacare".

 

Now someone Stateside is going to have to explain your system to me like a four year old. Don't people without health insurance die? Are they refused treatment? Why, forgive me, do at least half your politicians bang on about the sanctity of life when it comes to abortion, but deny or limit people equivalent rights to life with regard to healthcare?

 

I was speaking to a Democrat supporter who was over here about 18 months ago (from Illinois of all places) who was completely against "Obamacare", but he really couldn't get me to understand how it all works.

 

It seems crazy. Why not have a health insurance tax that goes to the Government who then provide hospitals, doctors etc?

[CarolAnn 926]

We are, first and foremost, an individualistic nation. Every man for himself. Haul yourself up by your bootstraps. Throw in some right wing populism. Et cetera. We are the only country in which Ayn Rand could have become a successful author. Read about Objectivism - it has strongly influenced the current crop of Republican politicians.

 

To many in this country, poverty is not only an economic problem but also a moral failing. Mental illness and physical disability are moral failings, not diseases. As such, there is a large contingent of people who object to any form of a social safety net, with some going so far as to even wish that the disabled should be forced to "work for their welfare." Ironically, the largest social safety net in the United States is Social Security, which politicians are leery to touch because older Americans are the not only the recipients but also the most powerful voting block in the nation.

 

It has frequently been observed that conservatives are all for government intrusion to prevent abortions but turn their backs on the subsequent childhood poverty rate. Hasn't made a lot of difference. Conservative states are still trying to outwit the federal courts to stop abortions and are still cutting the health and education programs that would help children.

 

 

Basically, lots of people are opposed to handouts unless they are getting them. Aid to Families with Dependent Children is regularly castigated but the fact that there isn't a farmer in America who doesn't benefit from at least one Department of Agriculture program is not seen as a problem. Corporate welfare in the form of tax cuts, deferments and subsidies are fine, but our veterans living on the street are ignored.

 

Yes, people without health insurance die. What little resource there is in local public hospital districts has to be rationed, so not everyone gets the care they need. Our Veteran's Administration, the agency tasked with providing healthcare for those who put their lives on the line for us, is stretched to the breaking point with all the men and women coming home from the Middle East. We don't even care enough to take care of them.

 

Of course, this is a short and simplistic view - there is a whole contingent of racism in the southern states that contributes heavily to this, along with a strong and long term set of economic issues. But basically, we try very hard not to give anything away anymore, even when it is justified. Except to farmers. And corporations. And the wealthy. And we build bridges that go nowhere.

 

No, Scrooge, there are no workhouses, and our prisons are at 200% of capacity. Everyone else just lives and dies on the streets.

[Angels 32]

Why, forgive me, do at least half your politicians bang on about the sanctity of life when it comes to abortion, but deny or limit people equivalent rights to life with regard to healthcare?

It's funny how many of those same 'sanctity of life' people are also OK with both the death penalty and with armed conflict. It sure looks like 'sanctity of life' isn't something that actually matters to them much after all. Seems that 'sanctity of life' isn't the actual reason after all - that's just what they say it is because it sounds a lot better than the much more honest 'in our religion, we hate it when women have autonomy.'

[YoungWillz 21,047]

Hmm, sounds very much like the direction in which the UK is going.

 

Most folk forget that one fine day they might be the ones who need a safety net. Whether that be an unexpected illness, the loss of a worker in the family, etc, etc. In the last few years over here (I've possibly ranted about it before) the ideas have been as two-faced as our politicians. It was ok for millionaire David Cameron to take benefits from the state for his disabled son. Then his son wasn't here anymore. He was dead. So it was fine to tar those who were just getting by on the pittance they got while caring for a disabled person (personal experience) that they should be out working as well...and so should the disabled person! And while we are about it, let's laud our Paralympians - they've got out and done something with their lives.

 

And yet....hate crime against the disabled continues to rise. But you know, one fine day, it might be their family hit by tragedy (as was ours) and suddenly everything is different.

 

One pay cheque (or paycheck ) away from being that person who can't find work and is now that same person you accused of being a layabout only a month before.

 

Yes there are users and abusers of the safety net system. Just as there are of the tax system. Only you go to jail if you are caught abusing the former, and cut a deal to pay less if caught abusing the latter. And you are more likely to be caught for the first as the enforcement of it is populated much more than for tax.

 

Life's unfair. I'm used to it. Doesn't stop me dreaming that one day everything will be equal.

 

That's why I like our healthcare system. You want extra, you want quicker, and you can afford it, go ahead. But everybody gets a decent and mostly excellent service regardless of age, disability, gender, etc etc. Maybe if folk applied the principles of the NHS to everything in their life, we'd all be better off.

 

You may say I'm a dreamer....

[WednesdayAddams 103]

People don't like what they are getting, vote it out. Vote for something different. Trouble is, voter engagement is at an all time low. The majority of people do not vote now, going by recent stats, which leaves just 3 blokes with attitude in your road deciding everything to do with public policy. This explains why libraries are closing.

 

The block who consistently turns out in high numbers are old farts like me. Memories are fresh with tales of fathers and grandfathers, who endured a living hell avoiding being eaten by rats in bomb craters, just so the likes of little old me could put my little X in a box. It would take an army the size of China to stop me getting to a voting booth.

 

Therefore... younger generations can expect to be royally shafted in terms of student loans, house prices, jobs etc. The olds will keep their bus passes and free prescriptions because they will consistently vote in large numbers for whoever promises to not take them away.

 

Get out and vote for something different and drag everyone you can lay a finger on to do the same and then things might change. Don't hold your breath though.

[WednesdayAddams 103]

Really sorry is the above came across as a rant, generally I am not a ranty person, but I do get tired when people say "Oh, f**k we've elected a Fascist!" and then you look at the stats and see the turnout was 32%.

[msc 18,474]

Only vote I've missed I could vote in was 2007, when I had the mother of all migraines, and wound up heavily medicated and trying to talk to dead relatives. Slept through polling day, woke up about 4am, turned on the news to see the SNP were forming a government. Thought I was still having hallucinations, to be honest!

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Im mindful that there is no such thing a 'fair' society or a Government that will get it right even 50% of the time.

I don't like the Tories but hate Labour even more, as for the Lib Dems.....wankers.

I have a sister who has been a nurse for 25 years, a brother who has Downs Syndrome, a widowed mum, a self employed married son and a daughter with a boyfriend who both get by in rented accommodation while she works in a Car insurance office and he wipes arses and helps medicate the elderly for a NHS contractor.

I think, therefore, Im pretty au fait with our care system, our NHS, the struggles that people face to make ends meet and the like.

Lady FN and I had it tough. Kids, one wage and a council house on an estate that made Alcatraz look like the Hilton was a pretty tough start yet we got by, had to.

The odd £20 here and there from our parents would always help get some food and bring some relief but life wasn't that easy.

Maybe all of the above has coloured my judgement but there has always been poverty and hardship yet the country I live in now is so ill equipped to deal with it its ridiculous.

Hand on heart, how many Poles, Lithuanians, Portuguese and other EU migrants into the UK use food banks? Come on, honestly, how many? Not many at all.

For some reason they manage, many on low wages, privately renting, driving 12 year old cars all managing, all still desperate to remain here, be part of our society, our culture and adopt our values.

We have bred a society that considers having a job that doesn't suit them beneath them and will continue to utilise a welfare system to maintain a standard of living that best suits them because, to them, its the Government that pays and not each and every taxpayer in the Country.

Ive spent over 25 years in a job that has allowed me to meet every walk of life, the rich, the poor, the strong and the weak and, honestly, there is a significant majority out there that have expectations beyond their income, intelligence and work ethic. These people are the true 'underclass' of the UK, the very people that the rest of us are pissing money at when the TRUE needy are fucked over by he Government of the day because it simply wont come out and admit that there are significant amounts of 'dead wood' amongst the population that have no interest in helping themselves or playing a part in laying the foundations for our future generations, like their offspring..

Through all of that, I and my missus have worked and fucking worked to the point where we are comfortable enough not to shit bricks if the Fridge dies tomorrow or to go and book a holiday in the sun.

As a taxpayer, a working class taxpayer, I understand that under a Tory Government the harder I work the more money Im allowed to keep but under a Labour Government the harder I work the more they will take from me. A stark choice.

The Tories answer to all woes is to privatise, Labours is to throw money at the problem.

Both approaches are bollocks so, until somebody comes up with a plan I have to make the best voting choice for me. Selfish? Yes. Honest? Deffo.

The couple of weeks the press and media have been all over the 'crisis' in the NHS, they haven't given much space to the current crisis in many of the hospitals across Europe.......

Its shit everywhere, isn't it?

 

 

 

[charon 4,943]

NHS is fucked and needs ripped up.

 

Doctors/consultants are overpaid by a factor of 3+.

 

Too many back of house staff doing 'projects'.

 

I'd half the budget, and see what happens

 

 

 

Oh, and CA , the reason your Veterans Administration is stretched to breaking point, is the gazillions of sodjers the US send overseas to rampage.

 

Fuck. Them. All.

[YoungWillz 21,047]

A hopeless choice of politicians LFN I agree. System is manipulated not in the national interest but the self interest of a couple of hundred folk and their arse-licking hangers on.

 

Maybe if they offered and delivered what is fair, rather than telling you they are you getting it and then swanning off for five years using power for their chums and themselves....

 

When both major parties have been in opposition, they don't say what they would do, they just bang on about wanting power. Listen to them, they do it all the time.

[Thatcher 2,417]

Here is a conundrum for you:
As a party which is attempting to reverse the result of a democratic vote whereby 52% of the British people chose to leave the European Union, and as a party which is openly seeking to block and hinder the democratic mandate which has been given, how on earth is it possible for that party to be called the Liberal 'Democrats'?

Undemocratic Liberals I would accept. Liberal non-Democrats is slightly less catchy but equally as true. Lunatic Democracy-haters is an option if they still wish to use the LD abbreviation. Liberal they may be. But Democrats? Far from it.

[msc 18,474]

Reminds of David Cameron, newsround 2009ish, interviewed by kids.

 

"Why do you want to be Prime Minister?"

"Because I think I'd be good at it."

 

Really overrated his own abilities there.

[Deathray 2,940]

A representative democracy does not throw it's decisions to the public when it can't be arsed to make them.

[Thatcher 2,417]

A representative democracy does not throw it's decisions to the public when it can't be arsed to make them.

But the fact of the matter was, whether right or wrong, the decision was made to let the citizens decide. Just because you now don't like the result doesn't mean you get to ignore it. Also, I think from a long term perspective it was the right thing to do to give us a vote. We voted to join something completely different back in 1975 and I think the growing frustration from people was getting too much unless you wanted us to end up in the end looking somewhat like America does currently.

[msc 18,474]

The name Liberal Democrat comes from the merger of the Liberal party and the Social Democratics. Being literal.

 

Being less literal, the Lib Dems are well known for their long standing support of the EU, and British membership of the EU, and anyone who has ever voted for them or contemplated voting them knows all about that. To get anywhere near changing it, enough people would have to vote for them, knowing that is a key view of theirs, for there to have been a sudden change in that "public mandate".

[CarolAnn 926]

*snipped that which I am not qualified to have an opinion on*

Oh, and CA , the reason your Veterans Administration is stretched to breaking point, is the gazillions of sodjers the US send overseas to rampage.

 

 

You are correct, sir. It is the reason. However, if the government sends soldiers overseas it has a responsibility to fulfill the promises it makes. The US government does not do so.

[Thatcher 2,417]

The name Liberal Democrat comes from the merger of the Liberal party and the Social Democratics. Being literal.

 

Being less literal, the Lib Dems are well known for their long standing support of the EU, and British membership of the EU, and anyone who has ever voted for them or contemplated voting them knows all about that. To get anywhere near changing it, enough people would have to vote for them, knowing that is a key view of theirs, for there to have been a sudden change in that "public mandate".

Then again, I thought the Lib Dems just said something is policy then do the opposite. I'm sorry, maybe I'm confused.