Political Frailty

[TomTomTelekom 3,742]

Pakistan Peoples Party politician Ahmad Mukthar, who served as Defence Minister and then, from 2012 to 2013, he held the office of Minister for Water and Power, died at 74 years:

https://www.urdupoint.com/en/amp/pakistan/former-defense-minister-ahmad-mukhtar-passes-1095768.html

[gcreptile 11,169]

Litokwa Tomeing, former president of the Marshall Islands, died last month at age 80:

https://www.state.gov/on-the-passing-of-former-marshallese-president-litokwa-tomeing/

 

Former DDP pick.

[gcreptile 11,169]

Longtime Burma / Myanmar dictator Than Shwe voted from home in the recent election a couple of weeks ago. A troop came to him and collected his and his wife's vote. He's still in "good health":

https://elevenmyanmar.com/news/former-senior-general-cast-early-ballots-in-nay-pyi-taw

[drol 12,270]

42 minutes ago, gcreptile said:

Longtime Burma / Myanmar dictator Than Shwe voted from home in the recent election a couple of weeks ago. A troop came to him and collected his and his wife's vote. He's still in "good health":

https://elevenmyanmar.com/news/former-senior-general-cast-early-ballots-in-nay-pyi-taw

Sadly.

[CoffinLodger 1,248]

On 28/11/2020 at 17:23, drol said:

Sadly.

The Egyptian defence minister during the Six day war in 1967 Shams Badran has died at 91 https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20201201-infamous-egyptian-torturer-dies-in-britain/ 

[msc 18,599]

Brian Kerr, Lord Kerr of Tonaghmore, until September one of the longest held members of the UK Supreme Court and former Chief Justice of N Ireland, dead aged 72.

 

Didn't even know he'd stood down suddenly, which is a warning sign for a workaholic...

[Ulitzer95 12,967]

An off radar death (not that he would ever obit)...

Eddy Morrison (wiki), a veteran far right/neo-Nazi activist in Britain, died in June aged 70 following a fall. A leading figure within the National Front and closely aligned with John Tyndall.

Which reminds me...

Former National Front leader Tom Holmes (wiki) is still alive, and will turn 90 next year, and according to some chit chat online was in a care home as of 2019... now he COULD obit, but it's a risk.

Edit: John Bean (wiki) also worth a mention. 94 next year. Obit chances minimal though.

[Ulitzer95 12,967]

On 10/01/2020 at 12:28, Ulitzer95 said:

Agreed that a lot of them have been dropping off recently.

Thought I'd take this opportunity to look at how many WWII veterans from the three strands of government in the U.S. are still with us.

There are still 19 living formers members of the House of Representatives who served:

b. 1919: Lester L. Wolff
b. 1920: Neal Edward Smith
b. 1921: Mike McCormack
b. 1923: Bob Dole, Al Quie
b. 1924: Frank Joseph Guarini, Weston E. Vivian
b. 1925: Fletcher Thompson, G. William Whitehurst, Lucien Nedzi
b. 1926: J. Roy Rowland, Elwood Hillis, Earl Hutto, Mark Andrews, Robert J. Lagomarsino
b. 1927: Benjamin B. Blackburn, Arthur Ravenel Jr., Austin Murphy, Bud Brown, Edwin Edwards, Jim Weaver, James W. Symington
 

Updated for the death of Mike McCormack (wiki), who has died just short of his 99th birthday. 

No news report yet but a mention here.

[CoffinLodger 1,248]

1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Updated for the death of Mike McCormack (wiki), who has died just short of his 99th birthday. 

No news report yet but a mention here.

And still Bob Dole trundles on...

[YoungWillz 21,319]

Maria Fyfe, former Labour MP for Glasgow Maryhill, dead at 82: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18917631.legendary-labour-mp-maria-fyfe-dies-age-82/

[Ulitzer95 12,967]

19 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Maria Fyfe, former Labour MP for Glasgow Maryhill, dead at 82: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18917631.legendary-labour-mp-maria-fyfe-dies-age-82/

The Herald calling her "legendary", a word which is often tossed around too charitably these days.

I don't think anyone currently living who is associated with Scottish Labour could be considered a "legend". Perhaps they meant leg-end? 

[msc 18,599]

6 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

The Herald calling her "legendary", a word which is often tossed around too charitably these days.

I don't think anyone currently living who is associated with Scottish Labour could be considered a "legend". Perhaps they meant leg-end? 

 

Never heard of her!

 

This felt like a challenge but is surprisingly difficult: most contenders (Dewar, Galbraith, Cook to pick 3) are long dead. There was some reasonably decent local MPs that dont fit the bill, far more nonentities (John Robertson was an MP for 15 years in Glasgow and I couldnt pick him out of a crowd), and more than one complete and utter cunt. And the associated bit presumably DQs folk who left the party like Denis Canavan and Jim Sillars, and the long since retired (and admittedly marmite but solid political figures none the less) like Pa Broon and Gavin Strang.

 

And I think that's covered all of them. I'm stumped, there's no one left.

[RoverAndOut 4,762]

12 minutes ago, msc said:

And I think that's covered all of them. I'm stumped, there's no one left.

 

I know I'll probably get pilloried for this, but I suspect history will be far kinder to Gordon Brown than the cold light of day. 

[CoffinLodger 1,248]

1 hour ago, YoungWillz said:

Maria Fyfe, former Labour MP for Glasgow Maryhill, dead at 82: https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18917631.legendary-labour-mp-maria-fyfe-dies-age-82/

Very sad news. She was a great champion for socialist values and will be greatly missed. I agree with the previous poster. Compared to our current buffoon in no 10 Gordon Brown was a towering genius ! I hasten to add I didn't think that at the time though.I actually voted for the lib dems in 2010, a vote which I will regret for the rest of my life...

[msc 18,599]

30 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

I know I'll probably get pilloried for this, but I suspect history will be far kinder to Gordon Brown than the cold light of day. 

 

He's Pa Broon in the post above!

[RoverAndOut 4,762]

1 minute ago, msc said:

He's Pa Broon in the post above!

 

Silly me! The hatchet job Cameron and his cronies did on him was a disgrace. But 10 years on the turkeys keep voting for Christmas... 

[Ulitzer95 12,967]

23 minutes ago, CoffinLodger said:

Very sad news. She was a great champion for socialist values and will be greatly missed. I agree with the previous poster. Compared to our current buffoon in no 10 Gordon Brown was a towering genius ! I hasten to add I didn't think that at the time though.I actually voted for the lib dems in 2010, a vote which I will regret for the rest of my life...

You vote?

 

Jesus, that’s scary.

[TQR 14,481]

14 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

You vote?

 

Jesus, that’s scary.

His was a spoiled ballot; all the tears destroyed the paper.

[Ulitzer95 12,967]

40 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

Silly me! The hatchet job Cameron and his cronies did on him was a disgrace. But 10 years on the turkeys keep voting for Christmas... 

 

Whatever you think of Cameron, I don’t think he deserves any credit. The Lib Dems were the kingmakers in that situation and they blew off Brown.

[En Passant 3,761]

13 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

The Lib Dems were the kingmakers in that situation and they blew off Brown.

 

 

I thought that was just Clinton. Learn something new every day.

 

[RoverAndOut 4,762]

1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Whatever you think of Cameron, I don’t think he deserves any credit. The Lib Dems were the kingmakers in that situation and they blew off Brown.

 

While the Lib Dems made their bed and get to lie in it, I don't buy into this narrative that they specifically "chose" the Tories over Labour. The maths didn't work in Labour's favour. Tories had gained nearly 100 seats, gone up nearly 4 percentage points, Labour had gone down nearly 100 seats and lost over 6% on their 2005 showing, putting them 7% behind the Tories in the popular vote. Labour + Lib Dems would only just have outscored the Tories and in either situation, they were short of a majority. I guess the Lib Dems' thought was that it was better to be in government (for the first time in decades) and be able to moderate the Tories' policies, but they failed miserably at the task. The better check on the Tories would have been for them to manage a minority administration relying on other parties to get their policies through. I don't see a situation where Labour under Brown could get back into power given the results of the election.

 

On the broader point of "Call Me Dave", I don't think he deserves much credit either. Up to the financial crash, he and Osborne were hammering Labour for not going far enough with their spending increases then the minute things went pear-shaped, they were criticising them for the state of the economy and preaching 'austerity'. They also shamelessly poisoned the legacy of 13 years of Labour to excuse their slashing of the budget and even now people believe that Labour can't be trusted on the economy as they suffer the consequences of the Tories austerity programme. Repeated the trick with the 'Coalition of Chaos' under 'Red Ed', quietly introduced half his policies in the next few years and presided over the still ongoing Brexit nightmare. No credit, but plenty of blame for Shed Man. History won't be so kind to him I suspect - funny how these things are ignored at the time, though.

[Sir Creep 7,082]

Hey folks there is a Political Ranting thread - do please take this ‘conversation’ there.  Gracias.

[Ulitzer95 12,967]

50 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

While the Lib Dems made their bed and get to lie in it, I don't buy into this narrative that they specifically "chose" the Tories over Labour. The maths didn't work in Labour's favour. Tories had gained nearly 100 seats, gone up nearly 4 percentage points, Labour had gone down nearly 100 seats and lost over 6% on their 2005 showing, putting them 7% behind the Tories in the popular vote.
 

This simply isn't the case. Originally the Lib Dems were in negotiations with Labour over a power sharing deal. It fell through because Brown did not compromise on enough of their demands. By the time Brown realised that the Libs were seriously considering putting Cameron into Downing Street, it was too late and a deal had been struck.

There's a fascinating documentary on it that the BBC commissioned a few years ago.

[RoverAndOut 4,762]

1 minute ago, Ulitzer95 said:

This simply isn't the case. Originally the Lib Dems were in negotiations with Labour over a power sharing deal. It fell through because Brown did not compromise on enough of their demands. By the time Brown realised that the Libs were seriously considering putting Cameron into Downing Street, it was too late and a deal had been struck.

There's a fascinating documentary on it that the BBC commissioned a few years ago.

 

Watched it at the time, the Lib Dems negotiated with Labour because it was the natural progressive alliance. The Lib Dems played one off against the other to a point but the maths would never have supported a stable Labour/Lib Dem coalition. Not to mention the hammering they'd have taken from the right-wing press. Personally, I'd suggest the Lib Dems play up the chances of a coalition with Labour to try and put the blame for them siding with the Tories on Labour, but I think Clegg always saw the Tories as the most likely coalition partners, he just wasn't sure they could get enough concessions to make it worthwhile. As it turned out, he was right.

[msc 18,599]

My memory of that documentary was that David Cameron looked as though he'd already achieved something great just by forming government, which was a warning sign for his utter fecklessness at the task. (Which isn't a political lens view - people don't argue if Maggie was competent, more what her policies were; Major managed to win an election everyone assumed doomed, other Tory leaders have show aptitude for the job at least that Cameron proved he lacked on a regular basis.)

 

There was so many stupid plots going on at the time. The Lib Dems understood very little - when they went for the deal with Cameron they settled for very little overall. The Lib Dem team didn't like Brown. One of them Labour team (coughEdBallscough) didn't like the Lib Dems, so they were sparky from the off. Some on the Labour side thought it a good election to lose (usually always bollocks) and others were looking for David fn Milband to replace Brown. (But as usual, David Miliband was hiding in a loo shitting himself at the thought of being decisive...)

 

The head of the civil service (Gus O'Donnell at the time iirc) hurried along negotiations as the money markets were doing their usual panic (and this was right after Greece went bust so there was a lot of international money panic).

 

Gordon Brown felt (tbf not unreasonably) that the Prime Minister had first go at putting together a coalition. There was also the frankly ludicrous suggestion put about in the press that he resigned immediately before a successor was decided, which as you know is not how Prime Ministerial succession works - there can be no vaccuum - unless Lord Palmerston dies in office. By the time he realised the other parties viewed the election as a referendum on himself, it was too late. (And what was that offer of AV? The Lib Dems spent twenty years asking for PR, lets offer a completely different system all together...)

 

The problem for Clegg was partly that he didn't realise the symbolism of u-turning on the student tuition pledge, and he didn't know how to spin the 2010 decision as a success (ie as a graduate tax that only the well off pay) and he didn't realise how toxic the Tory party were to a vast number of his own voters. When experienced heads tried to warn him against "being too cosy" (Kennedy, Campbell, Ashdown) he was distrustful. When the polling went against them, he distrusted that. When the locals and the devolved elections were massacres, he thought it temporary. His main team, much like Corbyns 4 years later, believed the electorate were on their side until the exit poll dropped. (As John Curtice later put it, dropping from 24% of the vote to 8% and believing you can hold 70% of your seats is somewhat foolish!)

 

There was more of this but due to household duties my train of thought has now died. Don't all cheer at once!