WTF is happening in London?

[Paul Bearer 6,122]

Another young life taken away needlessly. 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43649193

 

Whats the matter with these people? 

[charon 4,943]

They're English Paul.

 

Darwin's Law etc....

[Mad Hatter2 85]

I suspect the majorities of these crimes are gang related in some way or shape or form. The average nutter has no way of getting crimes in London. 

[Deathray 2,941]

Police funding being cut leading to gangs becoming much larger (violent crime and vehicle thefts have been going up for the last 5 or so years). Combine that with the instant nature of social media for escalating tensions.

 

We've known this was coming for years, as we've watched certain crimes (particularly moped related crime) sky-rocket and the police be able to do nothing due to lack of resources. Now imagine that with even less resources, now you don't need to.

[YoungWillz 21,086]

I think the BBC reported that the violent crime rate was "still lower than it was in the mid-1990s". That means they had to go that far back to make the comparison.

 

By the mid-1990s, the Tories had been in power for 16 years. They've only been in for 8 this time and they're already seeing a repeat of what happened (albeit at a faster rate). Unsurprising when investment in public services, schools, the NHS, the police, etc etc are all cut in real terms while we dole out the cash to girl groups in Ethiopia. Add to that the despair of no career prospects, the lack of affordable and social housing, drugs and other addictions not used recreationally but to escape from a horrid life, the increasing abuse of people from non-white backgrounds whipped up by a Government who says you are unpatriotic if you don't agree with their autocratic use of power and bob's your uncle. Keep telling people working two or three jobs to make a real living wage that we have a strong economy and there are tipping points.

 

This isn't a manifesto for Labour, btw, they only get into power now if they look pale blue...and that just won't solve the issues.

 

Seen it all before, it'll only dawn on these fuckers when they are lying in a hospital corridor on a trolley holding a Starbucks for comfort and dying of a curable condition.....

 

[the_engineer 1,415]

There's no real punishment. Why isn't their a major overhaul of punishment in the UK. Tough decades long sentences for crimes and make the prisons harsh . I don't believe in the death penalty anymore or abortion . Whether they're the most evil criminal or most innocent child no human has the right to take another life unless in self defence.

 

Sadiq Khan is out of his depth as well he clearly doesn't have a clue. Spending millions on the 'feelings police' monitoring social media for 'hate speech' on top of that banning bikini models on the sides of buses. At least he has his priorities right! TBH I'd cut funding to someone like that too. But cuts have happened before sadiq khan and you can't excuse the cuts the conservative govt have done to policing.

[the_engineer 1,415]

BTW Richard osborn-brooks who was arrested for defending his home and disabled wife is currently in prison on suspicion of murder. This is disturbing and erroneous in many ways. Firstly why is he arrested on suspicion of murder ? Under English law murder is:

a deliberate and premeditated (prior intent) killing of another motivated by ill will).He should of been arrested on manslaughter charges. Seems they're trying to make an example out of this guy easy pickings trying to look tough on crime during a murderwave in London. Who is his solicitor anyway? A good one should have the charges changed/dropped and Mr brooks home within 24 hours.

 

This law must be changed anyone breaking into your home is not protected by law. I hope they free him soon how is he at any fault that people broke into his home ?

[YoungWillz 21,086]

I don't know enough about the police structures in England and Wales, jeez, all these mayors and Police Crime Commissioners and the like!

 

What I can guess, is officers are resorting to social media monitoring simply because the officers aren't there in the community. London also seems to have the extra commitment of terrorism and protection of the high and mighty. Surely the Mayor or whoever it is can only spend what he gets from Central Govt, or else put up the Council Tax. I'm sure the populace love that on top of their high rents/huge mortgages.

 

Locking people up is also a cost.

 

So look at it from the right wing point of view. They see moving responsibility from their shoulders as their only responsibility. Hence their need for privatisation, making local authorities responsible for things, farming out the NHS to Trusts. (Such an English problem!) Meantime, if people die in hospital or on the streets, that's a lower burden on the rest of us. "Let the plebs kill themselves and each other, it's natural selection, another glass of Chardonnay, Farquhar?".

 

Eventually, the people will get fed up of rising crime, feeling unsafe and insecure, yada yada yada and there will be a new Government. By which time it's too late and too damn expensive to undo exactly what the Tories have done for over 40 years whenever they've been in power.

 

And yet when it arrives on their own doorstep, that's when things get done. Tezza knows someone who was raped by Warboys? Keep him locked up! Lansley has cancer? Now he wonders why he spent billions on re-organising the NHS instead of front line services. Only when it's in their back yard something gets done.

 

Anyhow, that's double the rants I've had in ages...the Hon Member for South Glesca has no more interventions....

[theoldlady 2,321]

8 hours ago, Paul Bearer said:

Another young life taken away needlessly. 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43649193

 

Whats the matter with these people? 

This same situation has happened to Norway in the past 3-4 decades. We had maybe 4 killings a year in the early 1980s, with at that time a population of about 4 million people. Now there are killings almost every day, many gangs formed by Pakistani youths, Eastern Europeans, Somalians, to point out the main groups, are responsible for many of these, along with Honor Killings. Norway has universal health care, free University education if your grades are good enough, good social services, but it still does not stop this type of anti-Social behavior. A once model society is falling into a crap Hole. Very sad indeed. Any politician who wants to address this issue gets crucified. 

[paddyfool 379]

Cuts to police and social care, education, drug and alcohol services, and increasing burdens on a financially strapped NHS that doesn't have enough beds or staff for our aging population are definitely part of it. I don't think that more incarceration is the answer, however, since that's already at a record high. 

 

Meanwhile, in the broader picture, homicide and suicide rates are up across many western countries, from the UK to the USA and beyond, as are accidental overdose deaths. One of a few reasons why life expectancy is peaking. We live in a time of wondrous toys and gadgets; of increasing acceptance of the diverse nature of humankind; of increasing connectivity between all parts of the world; all these wonderful things, and yet people are in despair.

 

EDIT: there was also a good debate on radio 4 this morning that raised some further decent points. There's a massive financial incentive for gang-related crime with the scale of the drugs market, cocaine in particular (£11 billion for this in the UK). We're seeing increasingly unrestrained, rage-driven debate in public fora, including social media, that legitimises picking fights over stupid things. And nobody at a national level is doing anything about it; the focus is all on Brexit and Russia right now.

Edited April 5, 2018 by paddyfool

[Deathray 2,941]

9 hours ago, the_engineer said:

BTW Richard osborn-brooks who was arrested for defending his home and disabled wife is currently in prison on suspicion of murder. This is disturbing and erroneous in many ways. Firstly why is he arrested on suspicion of murder ? Under English law murder is:

a deliberate and premeditated (prior intent) killing of another motivated by ill will).He should of been arrested on manslaughter charges. Seems they're trying to make an example out of this guy easy pickings trying to look tough on crime during a murderwave in London. Who is his solicitor anyway? A good one should have the charges changed/dropped and Mr brooks home within 24 hours.

 

This law must be changed anyone breaking into your home is not protected by law. I hope they free him soon how is he at any fault that people broke into his home ?

 

His trial will collapse, I'd go as far as to say the charging officer's put him down on murder charges because the trials guaranteed to collapse whereas he could be convicted of manslaughter realistically. The law was changed in 2012 to allow you to fight back, the question is whether what Richard Osborn-Brookes did classifies as "grossly disproportionate" force, anyone with a brain cell can tell it wasn't. Someone's coming at you with a knife, if you can turn it back on them you do. 

 

[Spade_Cooley 9,569]

Stoked for Richard Osborn-Brookes to turn out to be a nutjob like the dude who shot those gypsies in the early 2000s.

[Deathray 2,941]

2 hours ago, paddyfool said:

Cuts to police and social care, education, drug and alcohol services, and increasing burdens on a financially strapped NHS that doesn't have enough beds or staff for our aging population are definitely part of it. I don't think that more incarceration is the answer, however, since that's already at a record high. 

 

Meanwhile, in the broader picture, homicide and suicide rates are up across many western countries, from the UK to the USA and beyond, as are accidental overdose deaths. One of a few reasons why life expectancy is peaking. We live in a time of wondrous toys and gadgets; of increasing acceptance of the diverse nature of humankind; of increasing connectivity between all parts of the world; all these wonderful things, and yet people are in despair.

 

EDIT: there was also a good debate on radio 4 this morning that raised some further decent points. There's a massive financial incentive for gang-related crime with the scale of the drugs market, cocaine in particular (£11 billion for this in the UK). We're seeing increasingly unrestrained, rage-driven debate in public fora, including social media, that legitimises picking fights over stupid things. And nobody at a national level is doing anything about it; the focus is all on Brexit and Russia right now.

 

Drugs, now there's another can of worms. I will never understand the war on drugs, because it simply makes no sense whatsoever. Alcohol is worth £47bn to the UK economy and raises about £10bn in tax, so can you imagine how much more we could raise if we brought every other drug into the legal fold, and not only that we'd free up some much space in prisons by not being able to arrest anyone for possession of a drug. In addition, people might be more inclined to seek support if the stigma of it being a criminal thing to do. So many people smoke weed and take light drugs (even hard drugs) openly now I really don't see the issue with given these people places to do it that are secure and safe, and places to buy it that aren't run by ruthless nutjobs. How many people could have been saved from homelessness with a slightly more sensible approach to drugs?

 

6 minutes ago, Spade_Cooley said:

Stoked for Richard Osborn-Brookes to turn out to be a nutjob like the dude who shot those gypsies in the early 2000s.

 

 

Tony Martin? He was a bit eccentric, but I don't think hating thieves and keeping a gun in case you get burgled is really nutjob territory. 

[Spade_Cooley 9,569]

6 minutes ago, Deathray said:

Tony Martin? He was a bit eccentric, but I don't think hating thieves and keeping a gun in case you get burgled is really nutjob territory. 

 

He was a BNP member who had no friends and spent most of his time talking to dogs. Like DMX if he paid taxes.

[En Passant 3,745]

11 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

I think the BBC reported that the violent crime rate was "still lower than it was in the mid-1990s". That means they had to go that far back to make the comparison.

 

By the mid-1990s, the Tories had been in power for 16 years. They've only been in for 8 this time and they're already seeing a repeat of what happened (albeit at a faster rate). Unsurprising when investment in public services, schools, the NHS, the police, etc etc are all cut in real terms while we dole out the cash to girl groups in Ethiopia. Add to that the despair of no career prospects, the lack of affordable and social housing, drugs and other addictions not used recreationally but to escape from a horrid life, the increasing abuse of people from non-white backgrounds whipped up by a Government who says you are unpatriotic if you don't agree with their autocratic use of power and bob's your uncle. Keep telling people working two or three jobs to make a real living wage that we have a strong economy and there are tipping points.

 

This isn't a manifesto for Labour, btw, they only get into power now if they look pale blue...and that just won't solve the issues.

 

Seen it all before, it'll only dawn on these fuckers when they are lying in a hospital corridor on a trolley holding a Starbucks for comfort and dying of a curable condition.....

 

Except that the self same fuckers aren't going to be relying on the NHS in the first place.

[En Passant 3,745]

11 hours ago, the_engineer said:

There's no real punishment. Why isn't their a major overhaul of punishment in the UK. Tough decades long sentences for crimes and make the prisons harsh .

I entirely understand the desire to lock up bad people. However in my opinion there's an awful lot of would be good people who are being incarcerated because of the conditions they are subjected to. And I do mean subjected to, not caused themselves (though clearly this is also true in some cases). As to why, I can put it no better than Wills already has in the highlighted section below. Though personally I don't know the spend on Ethiopian Girl groups

One only has to look at the USA to see what the upshot of the tough on crime stance is. Huge prison populations consisting of the economically disadvantaged, hidden away and largely forgotten about. It's no anomaly that they're locking up Blacks and Hispanics massively disproportionately: Per 100,000 population its 450 White, 831 Hispanic and a staggering 2,306 Black Source. Ask yourself are they really more likely to be more criminals due to race? Or, I submit, is it linked to massive historical and ongoing economic disadvantage?

The UK is no better.

In my view the problem is that the slogan 'Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime' never actually addresses the 'causes' part because that's harder to implement, more expensive and not even in the interests of the elite in the first place. 

11 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

I think the BBC reported that the violent crime rate was "still lower than it was in the mid-1990s". That means they had to go that far back to make the comparison.

 

By the mid-1990s, the Tories had been in power for 16 years. They've only been in for 8 this time and they're already seeing a repeat of what happened (albeit at a faster rate). Unsurprising when investment in public services, schools, the NHS, the police, etc etc are all cut in real terms while we dole out the cash to girl groups in Ethiopia. Add to that the despair of no career prospects, the lack of affordable and social housing, drugs and other addictions not used recreationally but to escape from a horrid life, the increasing abuse of people from non-white backgrounds whipped up by a Government who says you are unpatriotic if you don't agree with their autocratic use of power and bob's your uncle. Keep telling people working two or three jobs to make a real living wage that we have a strong economy and there are tipping points.

 

This isn't a manifesto for Labour, btw, they only get into power now if they look pale blue...and that just won't solve the issues.

 

Seen it all before, it'll only dawn on these fuckers when they are lying in a hospital corridor on a trolley holding a Starbucks for comfort and dying of a curable condition.....

 

 

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,221]

Talking about underfunding?

Not enough Police?

Not enough 'Yoof' clubs to cater for the 'Yoof?

Just remember that London is one of the RICHEST fucking cities on Planet Earth.

London has a Mayor, and the Mayor has many powers which could enable him to generate the neccessary funding to provide extra Police and 'Yoof' clubs.

However, obviously, the rest of the UK is responsible for funding the Policing of London and providing somewhere for kids to go.

Other cities in the UK do not have anything like the crime rate that London has.

Most kids around the UK do not have 'Yoof' clubs to attend and, even if London had a 'Yoof' club for every 20 kids it would solve not a thing.

Extra Policing? For what?

They suspect those kids milling around on that street corner are up to no good but, unfortunately, they cannot stop and search because, years back, it was deemed Racist, as were the Police.

You reap what you sow.

 

[charon 4,943]

Kidz dint 'av nottin t' do, in it bruv?

 

* whilst flash cars, upple I phone 'n charlie.

 

** fuck sakes, never knew any cunt that took a line when I a boy. Now its a blizzard for 18/19 year olds in the pub. And they chew their face off for a couple of quid.

 

 

Lazy workshy scum, 80% parents fault, 5% schools fault, 5% TVs fault and 10% those in Powers fault.

 

We need another WW2/ Spanish Flu situation to thin out the chaff.

 

 

* benefit, those that survive would afford a house.....

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,221]

31 minutes ago, charon said:

Kidz dint 'av nottin t' do, in it bruv?

 

* whilst flash cars, upple I phone 'n charlie.

 

** fuck sakes, never knew any cunt that took a line when I a boy. Now its a blizzard for 18/19 year olds in the pub. And they chew their face off for a couple of quid.

 

 

Lazy workshy scum, 80% parents fault, 5% schools fault, 5% TVs fault and 10% those in Powers fault.

 

We need another WW2/ Spanish Flu situation to thin out the chaff.

 

 

* benefit, those that survive would afford a house.....

Not quite how I would have put it but, yeah, you are not far off of the unpalateable truth. 

[YoungWillz 21,086]

1 hour ago, charon said:

Kidz dint 'av nottin t' do, in it bruv?

 

* whilst flash cars, upple I phone 'n charlie.

 

** fuck sakes, never knew any cunt that took a line when I a boy. Now its a blizzard for 18/19 year olds in the pub. And they chew their face off for a couple of quid.

 

 

Lazy workshy scum, 80% parents fault, 5% schools fault, 5% TVs fault and 10% those in Powers fault.

 

We need another WW2/ Spanish Flu situation to thin out the chaff.

 

 

* benefit, those that survive would afford a house.....

You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my five pounds.

[charon 4,943]

Nope. 

 

It a fair comment, the wee pricks have 'everything' now, and want 'more'. Attention span of a rock, an IQ less than and we need a good fucking cull.

 

Parents totally to blame, and their teachers are the same hippy cunts that their parents are. They've grown up with no sense of right or wrong, and more importantly no sense of 'consequence'.

 

Fuck them, jails are too soft, a cull is needed.

 

Overcrowding is major now, get shot of the workshy snowflakes.

[philheybrookbay 439]

I live in Plymouth which used to be one of the more quieter Cities in the UK but the amount violent crime even here is growing. Increasingly there’s a generation which has been brought up to suffer little or no consequences to anything be it Work or school or life in general. The tide turned imho when schools went liberal about 15 years ago and there’s a generation under the age of 30 who think even if they do badly they’ll be rewarded and if they do something bad in any aspect then it’s ok as they’re entitled to do so.

 

The police  are powerless, understaffed and have had more cuts than could be believed. That doesn’t assist matters at all.

[Deathray 2,941]

12 hours ago, charon said:

Nope. 

 

It a fair comment, the wee pricks have 'everything' now, and want 'more'. Attention span of a rock, an IQ less than and we need a good fucking cull.

 

Parents totally to blame, and their teachers are the same hippy cunts that their parents are. They've grown up with no sense of right or wrong, and more importantly no sense of 'consequence'.

 

Fuck them, jails are too soft, a cull is needed.

 

Overcrowding is major now, get shot of the workshy snowflakes.

 

This is likely saying all older folks are state pension claiming drones and all middle age folks are benefit fraudsters or gypsy scum. Don't be so miserable. Overall crime is still falling compared to the mid-1990s (some of those folks will be running these gangs) - now that was a generation of scumbags if ever there was one - it's just that it's easier for those who have a target (most of these are gang-related) to get them now.

 

Given the sheer amount of stabbings going in on London at the minute you can guarantee a lot of people have been waiting for an event like this to settle a few scores for a while, it'll calm down eventually. Although part of me wonders if there's a madman about faking a few of these stabbings knowing rival gangs will be blamed in a similar fashion to the theory about a guy dumping bodies in a Manchester canal  (police dismissed that one) making it look like  a drunken accident for years who's never been caught. 

[En Passant 3,745]

It is impossible in evolutionary terms for there to have been any significant change in human genetic makeup over the last 50 years (or 500). If one accepts this then it is also impossible that the current younger generation are somehow genetically predisposed to this type of behaviour, this only leaves environmental factors. 

 

Environmental factors affecting so many people are only possible on a national or international basis.  Certainly parents are the major influence on their children but their own moral compass is not formed in a vacuum.

There will always be bad individual behaviour for any number of reasons, but on a societal scale one must look elsewhere. For me that's governments, globalisation favouring large corporations and critically the self-serving behaviour of the elite that control both.

 

Total co-incidence that this narrative concurs with my anti-establishment / anti elitist agenda.....

 

 

[Bentrovato 1,096]

But the guys and girls at Sabatier are enjoying their sales bonus. Other knives are available.