msc 18,479 Posted June 19, 2020 Totally nicked this off another forum. So every bloody year, folk moan about the DL 50. So and so gets on the list and its wall to wall moaning - see Mr Porridge's thread as an example, or Bill Gates Sr. Oh wait, that was me moaning. Now the Crowdsourced list gives us the forums consensus Alternate List. And Deathers is trying something with an alternate committee. But...I was thinking to myself, wouldn't it be cool if every DL pick had an approval rating, and we could officially rank the Cmmes choices by forum approval or lack of? And then I thought: that's a great idea, let's do it! And I slept on it and shared the idea with DI, who also thought it was great. So blame him. Hah. This is the simplest thing possibly. Below is the list of the 40 living candidates on the 2020 Deathlist, and several of the Survivors from previous years lists not currently on the Deathlist. A selected few, not everyone because that'd be a long list and do we really need to be comparing the Lineker baby, I think not. All you need to do is to copy this list, and send it to me with one of two words next to each name. If you think the person is Deathlist worthy in 2020, write YES. If you do not think the person is Deathlist worthy in 2020, write NO. Do not post your YES/NO ballots in this thread as it will defeat the purpose of a secret ballot and may swing other peoples opinoons. PM it to me, before 10th July 2020. No team creation, no new names needed, just a straight YES or NO to the Cmme's own picks. Which hopefully makes this sufficiently different from TCD. The list: Prince Philip Olivia de Havilland Dick van Dyke Akihito Pierre Cardin Bob Dole Murray Walker Leon Spinks Betty White Angela Lansbury Bob Barker Alan Greenspan Henry Kissinger Jimmy Carter Valery Giscard d’estaing Leslie Phillips Tony Bennett Harry Belafonte Nobby Stiles Prunella Scales Desmond Tutu Jacques Delors Willie Nelson John Edrich Bouteflika Alex Trebek Shane MacGowan Dick Cheney Ruth Bader Ginsbury Imelda Marcos Carl Reiner Lester Piggott Joanne Woodward David Crosby Tom Smith Jean-Marie le Pen General Pervez Musharraf William H Gates David Attenborough Peter Sutcliffe --- Tina Turner Larry King Gorbachev Loretta Lynn Cleo Laine Sidney Poitier Jimmy Greaves Vanessa Redgrave Ed Asner Barbara Walters June Brown Gazza Joni Mitchell Olivia Newton-John Ronnie Wood Ian St John Louis Farrakhan Sean Connery Pope Benny Mel Brooks Stanley Baxter Linda Nolan Sandy Gall David Prowse Queen Elizabeth II James Randi Nigel Lawson Frank Bough Jerry Lee Lewis Peter Alliss Ozzy Osbourne Brian Wilson What an exciting list. Who will finish rock bottom in the forums affections? We'll know soon. Ranking will be sorted exactly how we find the approval rating for our politicians. Approval rating (YES) minus Disapproval (NO) = Result 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toast 16,151 Posted June 19, 2020 Are we voting on notability, likelihood of imminent demise, or both? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,402 Posted June 19, 2020 So you're after a load of moans about names on the official DL? I wish I had as much time on my hands as you to read through such impertinent bilge. Not saying I'm not happy having a moan, of course. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,479 Posted June 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Toast said: Are we voting on notability, likelihood of imminent demise, or both? Just straight up "Do you think this person is worthy of a spot on the list?" Notability and frailty would presumably play a part in that decision for some, but it's just basically that yes or no based on your own view of the person. Or lack of a view of the person, as the case may be. No doubt Toast might have different views on notability to, say, Joey, but that's all good! 2 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said: So you're after a load of moans about names on the official DL? I wish I had as much time on my hands as you to read through such impertinent bilge. Not saying I'm not happy having a moan, of course. Folk can moan all they like about names as long as they write YES or NO after each one and I'll save the moans for when I could do with a laugh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toast 16,151 Posted June 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, msc said: Just straight up "Do you think this person is worthy of a spot on the list?" Notability and frailty would presumably play a part in that decision for some, but it's just basically that yes or no based on your own view of the person. Or lack of a view of the person, as the case may be. Ah, that's complicated it then. Because the title asks "How Deathlisty are they" I thought it was just notability. For instance, I'd have said a definite Yes to Lester Piggott - but I'm not convinced he's likely to die any time soon. (Sorry, Lester, I've probably just killed you) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,479 Posted June 19, 2020 39 minutes ago, Toast said: Ah, that's complicated it then. Because the title asks "How Deathlisty are they" I thought it was just notability. For instance, I'd have said a definite Yes to Lester Piggott - but I'm not convinced he's likely to die any time soon. (Sorry, Lester, I've probably just killed you) Sorry, it hadn't come across in my brain that way, but really, notability is the most important thing by far, no? Some folk get on the DL on health grounds rather than just being the right age, but they need to be notable in their own right, they don't just nab the Drop 40. Well, all of the Drop 40... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Banana 859 Posted June 20, 2020 I understand your desire for this to be secretive, but I only object to Bill Gates Sr. Dude isn't notable for anything other than being a famous person's father. I can name a few terminally ill parents of famous people that also shouldn't make the list and who are also better picks than Sr. Honestly, I think the Committee does a pretty good job picking people that follow their guidelines. I think people on this site just kinda suck at following the rules while picking people for the list if you just look at their own shadowlists. I also would've included those who have died since those are mainly the ones that people object to the most. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Great Uncle Bulgaria 1,290 Posted June 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Banana said: I understand your desire for this to be secretive, but I only object to Bill Gates Sr. Dude isn't notable for anything other than being a famous person's father. I can name a few terminally ill parents of famous people that also shouldn't make the list and who are also better picks than Sr. Honestly, I think the Committee does a pretty good job picking people that follow their guidelines. I think people on this site just kinda suck at following the rules while picking people for the list if you just look at their own shadowlists. I also would've included those who have died since those are mainly the ones that people object to the most. Agree with all of this (except would add one dead and one still living DL-member to Gates). Other observation I would make comes down to the fundamental question of whether this is a UK or a 'world' list. Tbh I'd never heard of (say) Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Alex Trebek before I came on here but I assume (hope!) they are famous in the US. Equally, Edrich (and just about any other cricketer) and Tony Britton (and any other old actor who was in UK sitcoms in the 70s) are well known in the UK/to me but I suspect not many of our 'overseas' friends have heard of them. Fundamentally, I guess we vote 'no' if we've never heard of them outside of DL (or at least believe that a majority of our non-dead-pooling friends haven't done so). 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miracle Aligner 249 Posted June 20, 2020 49 minutes ago, Great Uncle Bulgaria said: Agree with all of this (except would add one dead and one still living DL-member to Gates). Other observation I would make comes down to the fundamental question of whether this is a UK or a 'world' list. Tbh I'd never heard of (say) Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Alex Trebek before I came on here but I assume (hope!) they are famous in the US. Equally, Edrich (and just about any other cricketer) and Tony Britton (and any other old actor who was in UK sitcoms in the 70s) are well known in the UK/to me but I suspect not many of our 'overseas' friends have heard of them. Fundamentally, I guess we vote 'no' if we've never heard of them outside of DL (or at least believe that a majority of our non-dead-pooling friends haven't done so). It's always been a pretty UK centric although it seems fluid as to whether it's UK centric or worldwide depending on who it's defending. If it wants to defend the umpteenth coronation street actor or the former junior foreign secretary it's 'a British list' if it wants to defend Bill Gates Sr, Alex Trebek or the latest mediocre American actor to be diagnosed with stage IV pancreatic cancer it's a worldwide list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
En Passant 3,743 Posted June 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Great Uncle Bulgaria said: Other observation I would make comes down to the fundamental question of whether this is a UK or a 'world' list. This. Submitted according to the idea it's a UK list. I have nothing against our US based members but enough of the internet is dominated by them already (and many other things too, films, tv shows, software yada yada). I fear that overall the result will still favour inclusion of US notables simply on the basis of the 5/1 population disparity even though that isn't completely reflected hereabouts. In fact I wasn't going to bother submitting at all due to being mostly a drive-by poster and only occasional entrant to pools I felt others opinions should carry more weight than mine, but since mine is a UK view and I worry about the above population based disparity I sent it anyway. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handrejka 1,904 Posted June 20, 2020 I just had to look up Tom Smith because I have never heard of him and this phrase was one of the suggestions 'tom smith gas monkey garage death' which intrigued me. It's not DLs Tom Smith though but some dead biker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuffaloPhil 929 Posted June 20, 2020 Done, based on whether I've heard of them or not. Most of them it was a yes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handrejka 1,904 Posted June 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Great Uncle Bulgaria said: Agree with all of this (except would add one dead and one still living DL-member to Gates). Other observation I would make comes down to the fundamental question of whether this is a UK or a 'world' list. Tbh I'd never heard of (say) Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Alex Trebek before I came on here but I assume (hope!) they are famous in the US. Equally, Edrich (and just about any other cricketer) and Tony Britton (and any other old actor who was in UK sitcoms in the 70s) are well known in the UK/to me but I suspect not many of our 'overseas' friends have heard of them. Fundamentally, I guess we vote 'no' if we've never heard of them outside of DL (or at least believe that a majority of our non-dead-pooling friends haven't done so). I hadn't heard of Edrich and I am British but I still think he's deathlisty because I believe the committee are into their cricket so I will always expect old cricketers to have a place on DL. I hadn't heard of Trebek either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,479 Posted June 20, 2020 10 ballots in and everyone is going on notability if that helps. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilean way 1,900 Posted June 20, 2020 Message sent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bibliogryphon 9,588 Posted June 21, 2020 I was quite harsh in my assessment so any names that I only encountered on here got a no. Even though that might make my Shadow List look hypocritical. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lafaucheuse 4,051 Posted June 24, 2020 sent ! a lot of nos tbh, those who I didn't know outside/before the DL got a no too + this is always the same problem, as a foreigner some names are barely even known out there… Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Book 3,557 Posted June 30, 2020 Sent my list to msc. My decision was between yes: I like to see them on the DL, famous enough, classy, near death, glamorous and no: not famous enough, just a random UK-centric-boring pick, too healthy, too ugly That's how lists should be compiled 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lafaucheuse 4,051 Posted June 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Book said: Sent my list to msc. My decision was between yes: I like to see them on the DL, famous enough, classy, near death, glamorous and no: not famous enough, just a random UK-centric-boring pick, too healthy, too ugly That's how lists should be compiled Love the beauty criteria, seems like an important one for me ! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,479 Posted July 10, 2020 Completely forgot to remind folk about this so in fairness, you now have today and tomorrow to send in a last minute list. This thing now closes on midnight Scottish time tomorrow night (ie just under 37 hours from now). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Old Crem 3,608 Posted July 11, 2020 Just sent mine in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,479 Posted July 11, 2020 Thanks. 19 votes in so this is your last chance warning for the next 4 1/2 hours. To save time you may just send me the names you want to say NO to if you so wish... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,479 Posted July 11, 2020 Order – Placing, Name, YES vote, NO vote, Approval Rating SURVIVORS FROM PREVIOUS LISTS 32nd place – James Randi 8-14 -6 James Randi spent his life outing the Acorahs of the world. This forum would rather he stayed out of the DL. 31st place Louis Farrakhan 11-11 0 Farrakhan just snuck into neutral territory with the late batch of voters who went “oh everyone can have a YES except….” but we’ll get to that one. 30th place Ed Asner 12-10 +2 In the US he’s famous for the Mary Tyler Moore Show. Over here, he’s “oh that voice” for things like Toy Story. That disconnect explains his divide in approval, although it was by no means a straight Atlantic divide 29th place Peter Allis 13-9 +4 The cricket legend relied heavily on older voters. 28th place Cleo Laine 14-8 +6 Actor lovers, and the tag team of lovers of old Brits and old notable women (you all know who you are) gave Cleo a far better result than I thought she’d get. Joint 23rd place with 15-7 +8 David Prowse, Sandy Gall, Linda Nolan, Brian Wilson, Barbara Walters A number of folk who struggled at times. Brian Wilson got a lot of straight Nos, which surprised me. Sandy Gall did far better than expected. Barbara Walters was very close to a US/UK split. Joint 21st place with 16-6 +10 Frank Bough and Loretta Lynn Both had some detractors but are clearly quite popular. Just lost in the shuffle behind more popular picks. 20th place Nigel Lawson 17-5 +12 Hurt by non-UK voters not knowing who he was. Joint 18th place with 18-4 +14 Stanley Baxter and Joni Mitchell Solid support for the comic legend and the music legend. Joint 14th place with 19-3 +16 Ian St John, Gazza, June Brown, Larry King Perhaps surprisingly strong showings for 3 of these names given complaints at times. Joint 8th place with 20-2 +18 Sean Connery, Vanessa Redgrave, Mel Brooks, Ronnie Woods, Sidney Poitier, Jimmy Greaves I wont embarrass them by telling you the person who thought Sean Connery, the most Scottish man in the universe, was “some American actor”. Vanessa Redgrave did surprising well, which shows you this is about who deserves a DL spot, not necessarily who is best suited for one in 2020. Joint 2nd place with 21-1 +20 Olivia Newton John, Ozzy Osbourne, Jerry Lee Lewis, Pope Benedict, Queen Elizabeth II, Tina Turner So what I get from this is you lot love music heroes. Yes, I found remember the days of Benedict and Elizabeth’s duet on War Pigs with Ozzy. All of these will clearly return to the list before long. Top of the Survivors with A Unanimous Approval Rating of 22-0 and +22 Mikhail Gorbachev Shouldn’t have left the list, I agree. All Gorby All the time said the forum. WAS LISTED BUT DIED BEFORE THE DEADLINE (RIP) Carl Reiner had a score of 14-8 and approval of +6. Not bad at all, really, for someone in the shadow of a far more famous friend. And son. THE 39 LIVING PEOPLE ON THE 2020 DL Rock bottom spot - Bill Gates Sr 0-22 -22 It’s heartening to see such unanimity of opinion among the DL forum. No one voted in favour of Bill Gates Sr, not even his son signing in under a sock account. We might have a contender for general consensus worst DL pick ever, even if he snuffs it before January. Joint 37th spot with 11-11, equal, and 0 Alan Greenspan and Tom Smith Greenspan split between those into economics and those going “who is this guy?”. Tom split between those guy “no place on the list “ and those going “cancer plus reasonable notability = get them on the list” and that’s a near even split! 36th place – Bouteflika 12-10 +2 Forum seemed seemingly uninspired by this pick. Joint 33rd place with 13-9 +4 John Edrich, Bob Barker and Ruth Ginsburg Edrich harmed by no one having heard of them, Barker and Ginsburg harmed by the British voters being distinctly uninterested in them. Joint 31st place with 14-8 +6 Alex Trebek and General Musharraf Ditto Trebek but he bounced back late. Joint 29th place with 16-6 +10 Lester Piggott and Shane MacGowan Two “famous enough but not really room” type decisions. Joint 24th place with 17-5 +12 Dick Cheney, Joanne Woodward, Peter Sutcliffe, Leon Spinks, Tony Bennett An odd grouping. Some folk didn’t know who Cheney was. You lucky, lucky people. Ditto oanne Woodward, whose Oscar win has been forgotten, and Sutcliffe seemed to make people wonder if they wanted murderers on the list. But +12 is clearly an outright majority... Joint 21st place with 18-4 +14 Jacques Delors, Harry Belafonte and Akihito Not much to say here. A few dissenters but otherwise big votes. Joint 16th place with 19-3 +16 Prunella Scales, Imelda Marcos, David Crosby, Leslie Philips and Bob Dole Another group of big winners. Curious to see the big support for David Crosby. Dark horse for widespread forum approval. Folk wanted Imelda on the list for years, and Bob Dole is so well known over here even folk who voted no for most of the Americans voted yes to him. Bob Dole likes this. Despite questions over how long Pru has left, there’s no question about the forum’s view of her DL-ness... Joint 12th place with 20-2 +18 Angela Lansbury, Betty White, David Attenborough and Pierre Cardin Thumping big majorities for 4 legends. Well, maybe 3 and Mr Cardin. Lansbury and Attenborough got masse cross Atlantic support, and so nearly got unanimous votes. Betty White had two dissenters to her being a US star, but 20 YES votes from 22 is landslide territory. Joint 4th place with 21-1 +20 Murray Walker, Giscard d’Estaing, Henry Kissinger, Desmond Tutu, Jean Marie le Pen, Dick Van Dyke, Willie Nelson, and Olivia de Havilland Most of these just missed top spot by one person who hadn’t heard of them, or one person probably playing silly buggers in the case of Olivia. Kissinger seemed destined for joint top spot till late on. Surprisingly strong results for Dick van Dyke (might be healthy but his A list status isn’t in doubt), Giscard d’Estaing and Jean Marie le Pen. Also, look at Willie Nelson, only one NO vote in the entire thing. Stunningly strong. Joint 1st place with Unanimous Approval Ratings of 22-0 +22 Prince Philip, Jimmy Carter and Nobby Stiles The trio at the top went without a single negative vote. They are all A-listers, and if Nobby isn’t as famous (he’s not even the most famous England World Cup winner you heard about today), he’s still earned his place in the DL heart with his long survival against seemingly every dreaded illness under the sun. Jimmy Carter would fucking loved this approval rating back in 1980. As for Prince Philip, he just says: “Deathlist? If you all keep shouting at each other no wonder you are deaf!” Anyhow, that's the results. Enjoy. Or not. 13 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
En Passant 3,743 Posted July 12, 2020 10 hours ago, msc said: No one voted in favour of Bill Gates Sr, not even his son signing in under a sock account. 10 hours ago, msc said: 29th place Peter Allis 13-9 +4 The cricket legend relied heavily on older voters. Cricket as played over 18 holes with a bag of sticks? Edrich / Allis mixup? Or I missed the joke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Great Uncle Bulgaria 1,290 Posted July 12, 2020 Thanks. Largely as expected. Surprised half the forum claims to have known who Tom Smith was 9 months ago. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
