WokeWatch™

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

[TQR 14,388]

Grrrrr, poxy woke elite.

 

[Bibliogryphon 9,573]

I have been thinking about the "Woke" casting complaints and I think that the more people try to put rules around it the more it is going to struggle

 

Theatre, TV and Film are all forms of art and by saying - you must cast accurately or you must cast colour blind or gender blind is basically hampering the creative decisions of the creator before the start

 

There were complaints about the casting of a Black Anne Boleyn in a TV drama but the musical Six has been an enormous success and when my wife and daughter saw it at least three of the wives were played by actresses of colour. 

 

Therefore my opinion is that casting is an artistic decision that the director needs to stand by. There have been many experimental productions which have played about with casting that have been enormous successes (Matthew Bourne's all male Swan Lake or Hamilton for that matter)

 

It would take a brave director to cast Zac Efron as Martin Luther King but a really creative director could make it work without seeming too crass.

 

Someone on Twitter refused to go and see the new Indiana Jones movie for the sole reason that Phoebe Waller-Bridge was in it and they were expecting two hours of feminist propeganda

 

I would rather judge a production on how it tells the story and the story it has to tell rather than inflict my own opinions on something before I have even seen it

[The Great Cornholio 902]

42 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

I have been thinking about the "Woke" casting complaints and I think that the more people try to put rules around it the more it is going to struggle

 

Theatre, TV and Film are all forms of art and by saying - you must cast accurately or you must cast colour blind or gender blind is basically hampering the creative decisions of the creator before the start

 

There were complaints about the casting of a Black Anne Boleyn in a TV drama but the musical Six has been an enormous success and when my wife and daughter saw it at least three of the wives were played by actresses of colour. 

 

Therefore my opinion is that casting is an artistic decision that the director needs to stand by. There have been many experimental productions which have played about with casting that have been enormous successes (Matthew Bourne's all male Swan Lake or Hamilton for that matter)

 

It would take a brave director to cast Zac Efron as Martin Luther King but a really creative director could make it work without seeming too crass.

 

Someone on Twitter refused to go and see the new Indiana Jones movie for the sole reason that Phoebe Waller-Bridge was in it and they were expecting two hours of feminist propeganda

 

I would rather judge a production on how it tells the story and the story it has to tell rather than inflict my own opinions on something before I have even seen it

The rule I would put in would be to cast someone on merit. Dont hire someone solely because of their skin colour.

 

There are plenty of diverse actors, like The Rock, Samuel L Jackson, Kevin Hart, Will Smith, Martin Lawrence, Ice Cube etc who are some of the world's greatest actors. They dont need diversity quotas in order to get them into films.

 

Lets say you are a director and you want to make a film that appeals to black audiences, as well as white, then naturally you'll want to represent them - especially if you're making a film for typically younger audiences. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this but your film shouldn't revolve around how diverse it is - as it just seems patronising, not to mention that it'll become obvious that you've clearly hired someone to be the token black person in your film. Usually the blame is shared between hiring bad actors because you have a quota to fill and overall bad writing/storytelling.

 

If I'm watching a film, I like the characters to be multi-dimensional. They need a good backstory, motivations, challenges and subtleties that help you identify with the character and make him/her feel real (like a favourite colour, interest, consistency in clothing style, bodily habit eg: thumb twiddling, wrist scratching, ear picking or telling signs when the character is lying etc etc).

 

A diverse character only feels like a diversity quota filler when the character is bad IMO. Its the same feeling when a big celebrity is shoehorned into a film/tv show, you just know that they're only there because its Stephan Colbert/Donald Trump/whoever.

 

 

[En Passant 3,741]

Eddie Marsan a few days ago in The Graun

 

Quote

You’re often cast in Jewish roles, though you’re not Jewish. Should anyone be allowed to act anyone?
A Jewish actor should be able to play non-Jewish roles and a non-Jewish actor should be able to play Jewish roles. A gay actor should be able to play straight roles and a straight actor should be able to play gay roles… You need to categorise people to measure and address inequality. But the problem is if you then confine people in categories, you take away acting opportunity.

 

[The Old Crem 3,583]

15 minutes ago, En Passant said:

Eddie Marsan a few days ago in The Graun

 

 

My parents knew him before he was famous, 

[The Old Crem 3,583]

1 hour ago, Bibliogryphon said:

I have been thinking about the "Woke" casting complaints and I think that the more people try to put rules around it the more it is going to struggle

 

Theatre, TV and Film are all forms of art and by saying - you must cast accurately or you must cast colour blind or gender blind is basically hampering the creative decisions of the creator before the start

 

There were complaints about the casting of a Black Anne Boleyn in a TV drama but the musical Six has been an enormous success and when my wife and daughter saw it at least three of the wives were played by actresses of colour. 

 

Therefore my opinion is that casting is an artistic decision that the director needs to stand by. There have been many experimental productions which have played about with casting that have been enormous successes (Matthew Bourne's all male Swan Lake or Hamilton for that matter)

 

It would take a brave director to cast Zac Efron as Martin Luther King but a really creative director could make it work without seeming too crass.

 

Someone on Twitter refused to go and see the new Indiana Jones movie for the sole reason that Phoebe Waller-Bridge was in it and they were expecting two hours of feminist propeganda

 

I would rather judge a production on how it tells the story and the story it has to tell rather than inflict my own opinions on something before I have even seen it

I think it works better on stage than on screen. On stage things are often non realistic in so many ways while screen stuff always feels more realistic. When I saw Streetcar Named Desire last year there was no proper set but that would look very bizarre on screen. 

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,030]

1 hour ago, The Great Cornholio said:

The Rock, Samuel L Jackson, Kevin Hart, Will Smith, Martin Lawrence, Ice Cube etc who are some of the world's greatest actors.

You genuinely might be the first person in history to call Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson and Kevin Hart some of the world's greatest actors. That's probably the worst opinion shared in this thread so far.

[The Great Cornholio 902]

2 minutes ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

You genuinely might be the first person in history to call Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson and Kevin Hart some of the world's greatest actors. That's probably the worst opinion shared in this thread so far.

Lmao I was going by how well perceived they are generally - imo those two always play the same characters for every movie they're in. Same goes for Seth Rogan and Jack Black.

[MortalCaso 1,625]

Tyler Perry is a good example of someone who likely would have been 'canceled' if his career started this decade. Same with the Wayans brothers.

[BuffaloPhil 926]

1 hour ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

You genuinely might be the first person in history to call Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson and Kevin Hart some of the world's greatest actors. That's probably the worst opinion shared in this thread so far.

 

TBF The Rock surprised me at how good an actor he turned out to be.

 

That's not saying he's particularly good, but that my expectations were extremely low 

[BuffaloPhil 926]

This was an interesting article on the BBC this week : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68721310

 

Quote

Speaking to GQ magazine, Schafer said being known simply as a "trans actress" was "ultimately demeaning to me and what I want to do".

She continued: "I've been offered tons of trans roles, and I just don't want to do it. I don't want to talk about it.

"I know for a fact that I'm one of the most famous trans people in media right now, and I do feel a sense of responsibility, and maybe a little bit of guilt, for not being more of a spokesperson.

"But ultimately, I really do believe that not making it the centrepiece to what I'm doing will allow me to get further.

"And I think getting further and doing awesome [work], in the interest of 'the movement,' will be way more helpful than talking about it all the time."

 

[Toast 16,137]

For me casting needs to fit the context, to have internal consistency or logic, or it takes me out of the story.

 

Don't know if anyone is familiar with 'His Dark Materials', You may know the film 'The Golden Compass' which was based on part of it but spoiled by studio interference.

Anyway there was a recent TV series made by BBC/HBO.   The story involves parallel worlds, so all bets are off really.

They cast a black actor (Clarke Peters) as the Master of an Oxford college and I was fine with that.

They made one of the main characters mixed race - OK.

There are also angels and witches, and again I had no problem with diverse casting there.

 

However there is a tribe of people called Gyptians who are obviously based on Gypsies, but they live on narrowboats and travel by water rather than road.  The casting of these people was diverse, and it shouldn't have been, it really undermined the idea of who these people were. They cast white actors like James Cosmo and Anne Marie Duff as well as Lucien Msamati and other black actors.  What would have made more sense is if they had cast actors of Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, or Indian appearance, but these were conspicuous by their absence.

 

 

 

 

[ladyfiona 2,579]

If you want to talk about casting issues. May I direct you to Amazon's version of Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power.

• Single black elf with short hair even though elves literally are known for their long hair.
• A single black dwarf - as far as i'm aware not even a mention as to why she married in the family etc
• Harfoot Hobbits are described as having brown skin so I have no issues with them.

This Reddit post explains it well.

 

"No one minds the existence of a black dwarf or black elf. What people have a problem with is that they appear to be the only black dwarf or black elf in the world. If you want to give us a black elf, show us a whole city full of them that explains where the black elves live, or at least reference that. "

[Toast 16,137]

Yes, that Reddit conversation nails it.   

I have to disagree with the comment about the Velaryons in House of the Dragon though. They come from Valyria, where the people were established to be fair-haired and pale-skinned.  It's the Targaryens who were obsessed with marrying within their own family to keep their bloodline pure. 

 

It's the same argument as the Rings of Power - why only one black family in Valyria?  If they originated from, for example, the Summer Isles, fine, no problem.

I read somewhere that George RR Martin originally intended the Velaryons to be black. So why did he change his mind? Presumably because he realised that it made no sense.

[TQR 14,388]

Don't go watching the new Fantastic Four when it comes out: MCU have cast Julia Garner, a WUMMAN, as a version of the comic book character Silver Surfer.

[TQR 14,388]

Noooooooooo!!!

 

[Youth in Asia 1,086]

On 04/04/2024 at 14:05, Bibliogryphon said:

Someone on Twitter refused to go and see the new Indiana Jones movie for the sole reason that Phoebe Waller-Bridge was in it and they were expecting two hours of feminist propaganda

 

This is fair enough

[TQR 14,388]

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

8 minutes ago, TQR said:

 

Wait til the Russians hear they've got a Trans-Siberian Railway! 

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,887]

4 hours ago, TQR said:

Sounds like something 30p Lee would say 

[TQR 14,388]

I'm spitting feathers. Scrabble has gone WOKE. Mattel have released a version of the classic board game with a flip side aimed at including younger children who may struggle with the standard game. GRRRRR FUCK INCLUSIVITY.

[Toast 16,137]

2 hours ago, TQR said:

I'm spitting feathers. Scrabble has gone WOKE. Mattel have released a version of the classic board game with a flip side aimed at including younger children who may struggle with the standard game. GRRRRR FUCK INCLUSIVITY.

 

More dumbing down.

[TQR 14,388]

22 minutes ago, Toast said:

 

More dumbing down.

 

Okay, if you insist.

 

Scrabble now has a normal side of the board, which is completely unchanged, or the opposite side off the board, which is very easy to ignore, which is a version of Scrabble for young families to use with their children if they so choose.

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,030]

3 hours ago, TQR said:

I'm spitting feathers. Scrabble has gone WOKE. Mattel have released a version of the classic board game with a flip side aimed at including younger children who may struggle with the standard game. GRRRRR FUCK INCLUSIVITY.

My Nan has owned this 'woke' reverseable scrabble board for as long as I can remember, she got it when my sister and I were very young so that we could play. I can't wait to tell her that all her efforts reading the Daily Mail have been in vain as she is now woke and hates Britain.