rockhopper penguin 2,265 Posted January 13, 2017 Im mindful that there is no such thing a 'fair' society or a Government that will get it right even 50% of the time. I don't like the Tories but hate Labour even more, as for the Lib Dems.....wankers. I have a sister who has been a nurse for 25 years, a brother who has Downs Syndrome, a widowed mum, a self employed married son and a daughter with a boyfriend who both get by in rented accommodation while she works in a Car insurance office and he wipes arses and helps medicate the elderly for a NHS contractor. I think, therefore, Im pretty au fait with our care system, our NHS, the struggles that people face to make ends meet and the like. Lady FN and I had it tough. Kids, one wage and a council house on an estate that made Alcatraz look like the Hilton was a pretty tough start yet we got by, had to. The odd £20 here and there from our parents would always help get some food and bring some relief but life wasn't that easy. Maybe all of the above has coloured my judgement but there has always been poverty and hardship yet the country I live in now is so ill equipped to deal with it its ridiculous. Hand on heart, how many Poles, Lithuanians, Portuguese and other EU migrants into the UK use food banks? Come on, honestly, how many? Not many at all. For some reason they manage, many on low wages, privately renting, driving 12 year old cars all managing, all still desperate to remain here, be part of our society, our culture and adopt our values. We have bred a society that considers having a job that doesn't suit them beneath them and will continue to utilise a welfare system to maintain a standard of living that best suits them because, to them, its the Government that pays and not each and every taxpayer in the Country. Ive spent over 25 years in a job that has allowed me to meet every walk of life, the rich, the poor, the strong and the weak and, honestly, there is a significant majority out there that have expectations beyond their income, intelligence and work ethic. These people are the true 'underclass' of the UK, the very people that the rest of us are pissing money at when the TRUE needy are fucked over by he Government of the day because it simply wont come out and admit that there are significant amounts of 'dead wood' amongst the population that have no interest in helping themselves or playing a part in laying the foundations for our future generations, like their offspring.. Through all of that, I and my missus have worked and fucking worked to the point where we are comfortable enough not to shit bricks if the Fridge dies tomorrow or to go and book a holiday in the sun. As a taxpayer, a working class taxpayer, I understand that under a Tory Government the harder I work the more money Im allowed to keep but under a Labour Government the harder I work the more they will take from me. A stark choice. The Tories answer to all woes is to privatise, Labours is to throw money at the problem. Both approaches are bollocks so, until somebody comes up with a plan I have to make the best voting choice for me. Selfish? Yes. Honest? Deffo. The couple of weeks the press and media have been all over the 'crisis' in the NHS, they haven't given much space to the current crisis in many of the hospitals across Europe....... Its shit everywhere, isn't it? I don't agree with everything you say but what you do is tell a real story which needs to be listened to. The world is complicated and solutions difficult so it's all too easy not to bother or let someone else sort it out. But that doesn't mean we should stop telling our stories. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungWillz 21,062 Posted January 13, 2017 The name Liberal Democrat comes from the merger of the Liberal party and the Social Democratics. Being literal. Being less literal, the Lib Dems are well known for their long standing support of the EU, and British membership of the EU, and anyone who has ever voted for them or contemplated voting them knows all about that. To get anywhere near changing it, enough people would have to vote for them, knowing that is a key view of theirs, for there to have been a sudden change in that "public mandate". Then again, I thought the Lib Dems just said something is policy then do the opposite. I'm sorry, maybe I'm confused. You are correct. But so do the other parties. That's my point. Even handedness in the treatment of citizens. Stick to what you'll say you'll do. Justify it in the national interest. For the sake of common humanity hold out a hand to those who need it most. It used to be the British way. That's why Scotland has finally rejected every single Unionist party at Westminster. I'm not saying our lot just now are perfect, but the old order of self-interest squeal with every policy announced up here. Good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,219 Posted January 13, 2017 Tim Farron. Come on, I ask you, only the Libs would have elected a leader that looks like a school prefect with a face that looks like its been squished slightly out of shape by a giants hands. He isn't so much a limp dicked Politician, he doesn't even have a dick to limp. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WednesdayAddams 103 Posted January 13, 2017 With regard to referenda as per the point raised by Thatcher... Most people, if asked, would vote for a free unicorn. Now here's something else to ponder... why is it, do you think, they never ask the public whether we'd like to bring back capital punishment? Moreover, what about a referendum on whether we want to pay for a Monarchy and Aristocracy? Cameron, inconsequential looking little festering carbuncle that he was, could see not further than his nose. Thankfully, though much is made about us not having a Constitution written down in once place, we have a fairly sound series of Laws and precedents which govern our law makers that collectively are a Constitution. It's a noisy little thing when seen in action and it's meant to be. Brexit will come out in the wash I am sure. and most people will be happy. It might take a while though... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungWillz 21,062 Posted January 13, 2017 I don't care how they look, ha ha. I'll let others contribute if they want, so here's my final summary on our current lot who walk out on their consitituents as soon as something better comes along. Labour: Why solve poverty? Why make the poor better off? They won't vote for us. = Red Tories. Tories: Why make the rich poorer? Why pay our own people a decent wage with a secure job, when we can get it cheaper abroad? Our chums in the city won't like that. = Tory Tories. LibDems: We'd like to help. But you won't vote for us. And anyway, did you see that coalition? Bin that flagship policy for power. = Golden Tories. UKIP: The purity of the British race is supreme! Bring back the death penalty! Deport Johnny Foreigner! Bring back the Empire (both British and the local cinema)! = Nazi Tories. Green Party: We can afford everything. Everything looks good in hessian. Everybody wear hessian! Higher spending is investment and everyone will benefit. = Old Labour. Use that vote wisely.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thatcher 2,418 Posted January 13, 2017 With regard to referenda as per the point raised by Thatcher... Most people, if asked, would vote for a free unicorn. Now here's something else to ponder... why is it, do you think, they never ask the public whether we'd like to bring back capital punishment? Moreover, what about a referendum on whether we want to pay for a Monarchy and Aristocracy? Cameron, inconsequential looking little festering carbuncle that he was, could see not further than his nose. Thankfully, though much is made about us not having a Constitution written down in once place, we have a fairly sound series of Laws and precedents which govern our law makers that collectively are a Constitution. It's a noisy little thing when seen in action and it's meant to be. Brexit will come out in the wash I am sure. and most people will be happy. It might take a while though... Absolutely true they wouldn't bring death penalty to a referendum because people would vote overwhelmingly in favour of a return. A referendum on Monarchy, I'm quite certain, would return a very high percentage voting in favour of it. It's true we don't often use referenda, something I'm personally quite happy with. I vote to elect someone, who I feel is most in line with my views, in the belief that they will make the difficult decisions for me. However, whilst Cameron may well have been ignorant enough to call a referendum (in that he actually thought he could win it when he came back with such a poor deal), I still do believe sooner or later it had to happen. UKIP were breathing down the Tories necks, with no signs of flagging, so the Tories had to bite the bullet and call the referendum - far better that than be constantly pushed further and further to the right by UKIP. I believe referendum should be used extremely sparingly, and only for issues of great gravity which result in a lasting change in the history of our nation; something which I believe membership, or non-membership as the case may be, certainly qualifies under. I agree our uncodified Constitution is useful - something I'd far rather take than a rigid one. Look at the state America is in directly because of it's Constitution and Amendments, e.g gun control. If I'm honest, it might be an unpopular opinion here but I really think Theresa May is playing a sensible hand over Brexit. She walked into that office and due to the sheer ignorance of Cameron and Osborne mixed with the absolute stupidity of our Civil Service to fail to plan at all for Brexit, she has a monumental task to start with. As for the people who want her to unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU citizens without having reciprocal rights given by other EU nations, it would be a naive move. Why would we unilaterally guarantee their rights, for 6 months down the line in negotiations for the EU to make demands in order for countries such as Spain and France to keep all of our pensioners? And worst of all, the people demanding she publish a Brexit plan; why on earth would you walk into a negotiation with the people you are doing a deal with knowing all your red lines, demands and weak spots. This isn't playtime anymore, this is a hard-nosed negation and if we don't think the EU is going to play tough then we're naive. We need to keep our cards very close to our chest, because despite what some people want you to believe we do actually have a strong hand. You can disagree with Mrs May all you like on her domestic policies - grammar schools, the NHS, nuclear weapons etc., but I don't see valid criticism of her handling of the EU negotiations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungWillz 21,062 Posted January 13, 2017 Dammit, I was done until that post! I'd rather have the cliff edge, if I'm honest. Stick your negotiations EU, we are gone, not in 2 years but now. Come and see us if you want anything. We'll get on doing the deals we need to do right now. May's a remainer, pure and simple. And already a weak performer domestically and abroad. We'll end up with Brexit Light at this rate. She'll have to buck up, or fuck off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thatcher 2,418 Posted January 13, 2017 Dammit, I was done until that post! I'd rather have the cliff edge, if I'm honest. Stick your negotiations EU, we are gone, not in 2 years but now. Come and see us if you want anything. We'll get on doing the deals we need to do right now. May's a remainer, pure and simple. And already a weak performer domestically and abroad. We'll end up with Brexit Light at this rate. She'll have to buck up, or fuck off. She's supposedly making a major Brexit speech on Tuesday, where she expected to announce her intentions over the single market. The thing the EU keeps forgetting is whilst we can play nicely and go down the Article 50 route, if they begin to mess us around we can halt the negotiations, repeal the 1972 European Communities Act which is the domestic legislation that took us into the EU, thus cancelling our membership. Since all we're doing is repealing domestic legislation it is none of their business and then like you say, they have to come to us if they want anything. Australia, New Zealand and Canada are all optimistic for a trade deal, as is China. The Trump Administration has said we're at the front of the queue and they've openly said they'd like to see the collapse of the EU. Why don't we get on with making those trade deals whilst the EU flounders because it can't progress on any of their trade deals since it's so bloody difficult to get 28 member states to agree where to have a pint never mind intricacies of a trade deal. I agree with you though, if we're gonna do it we might as well do it proper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the_engineer 1,415 Posted January 14, 2017 Jeremy Corbyn just called the system rigged and tried his best Donald Trump impersonation. So I guess momentum's master plan is true to turn corbyn into the left wing Trump. This will be hilarious and as cringe worthy as Jeb! Trying to be a tough guy. Just waiting for corbyn to dye his hair blonde and start getting spray tans. I'm joking but in today's political climate would you rule anything out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charon 4,943 Posted January 14, 2017 *snipped that which I am not qualified to have an opinion on* Oh, and CA , the reason your Veterans Administration is stretched to breaking point, is the gazillions of sodjers the US send overseas to rampage. You are correct, sir. It is the reason. However, if the government sends soldiers overseas it has a responsibility to fulfill the promises it makes. The US government does not do so. Disagree. Personal responsibility trumps the Governments. Its like an entrance exam for the military, on both sides of the pond. If you are stupid enough to think any government will look after you, then "pass", perfect sodjer material. Thinning of the herd... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WednesdayAddams 103 Posted January 14, 2017 Jeremy Corbyn just called the system rigged and tried his best Donald Trump impersonation. So I guess momentum's master plan is true to turn corbyn into the left wing Trump. This will be hilarious and as cringe worthy as Jeb! Trying to be a tough guy. Just waiting for corbyn to dye his hair blonde and start getting spray tans. I'm joking but in today's political climate would you rule anything out? I'm fully expecting Larry the Downing Street cat to be appointed UK Ambassador to the EU within the week. Nothing surprises me anymore.... and as for Corbyn... I know a Labour policy wonk who is still convinced Ed Miliband will lead Labour into the next election. Make of that what you will! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
msc 18,479 Posted January 14, 2017 Well, if you ranked the current Parliamentary Labour Party by leadership ability, Ed Miliband would probably be in the top five. Says more about the party than him, mind you. Although Ken Clarke did say a year or two ago he thought Miliband had hurt his career by "doing a William Hague" and going for the leadership of the party 5 years too early. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thatcher 2,418 Posted January 14, 2017 When Labour is losing on the NHS you know it's time for Corbyn to go. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,219 Posted January 14, 2017 When Labour is losing on the NHS you know it's time for Corbyn to go. He was and is just a Trojan horse, a shit Trojan horse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockhopper penguin 2,265 Posted January 14, 2017 When Labour is losing on the NHS you know it's time for Corbyn to go. He was and is just a Trojan horse, a shit Trojan horse. A Trojan horse no one will accept as a gift and there are no hidden warriors inside. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockhopper penguin 2,265 Posted January 14, 2017 Explaining May's politics: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deathray 2,941 Posted January 16, 2017 Trump again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38635181 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,219 Posted January 16, 2017 Trump again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38635181 No doubting his cunt credentials but he makes some valid points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockhopper penguin 2,265 Posted January 16, 2017 Trump again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38635181 No doubting his cunt credentials but he makes some valid points. He's certainly railing against the orthodoxy. It's just a matter of how long before he is the orthodoxy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,219 Posted January 16, 2017 Trump again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38635181 No doubting his cunt credentials but he makes some valid points. He's certainly railing against the orthodoxy. It's just a matter of how long before he is the orthodoxy. If he is lucky he will go a full first term. The next President will spend their first term undoing everything that Trump did. Im kinda looking forwards to seeing BMW crushed under the 'possible' tariffs imposed by the US and the UK. All those prospective owners are going to have to shift more drugs than ever to afford one. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockhopper penguin 2,265 Posted January 16, 2017 Trump again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38635181 No doubting his cunt credentials but he makes some valid points. He's certainly railing against the orthodoxy. It's just a matter of how long before he is the orthodoxy. If he is lucky he will go a full first term. The next President will spend their first term undoing everything that Trump did. Im kinda looking forwards to seeing BMW crushed under the 'possible' tariffs imposed by the US and the UK. All those prospective owners are going to have to shift more drugs than ever to afford one. Why do you think they are wanting to build them in Mexico. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charon 4,943 Posted January 16, 2017 Trump again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38635181 No doubting his cunt credentials but he makes some valid points. He's certainly railing against the orthodoxy. It's just a matter of how long before he is the orthodoxy. The Russian Orthodoxy ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockhopper penguin 2,265 Posted January 16, 2017 Elections in NI. Wonder who'll win http://www.bbc.co.uk/news Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charon 4,943 Posted January 16, 2017 Usual. Nobody... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarolAnn 926 Posted January 17, 2017 Trump again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38635181 No doubting his cunt credentials but he makes some valid points. He's certainly railing against the orthodoxy. It's just a matter of how long before he is the orthodoxy. If he is lucky he will go a full first term.The next President will spend their first term undoing everything that Trump did. Im kinda looking forwards to seeing BMW crushed under the 'possible' tariffs imposed by the US and the UK. All those prospective owners are going to have to shift more drugs than ever to afford one. He's not going to tax luxury vehicles. He'll tax the manufacturers his friends DON'T drive. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
