The EU Referendum Hokey Cokey

[Deathray 2,940]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't mean the out vote should be overturned or anything so ridiculous. Just that I personally think it's an absolutely horrendous decision, and will be applying for my Irish passport soon to retain my own freedom of movement rights when we're forced to leave the single market by Germany and France.

 

For some reason you're entire post is in bold, so I've underlined the bits I'm replying too:

 

Firstly you're spot on about the entitlement sentiment.

 

I take issue with you picking out Newcastle, the area was only very marginally for remain and whilst there's an image of the north east by many southerners is one of no immigration it's wrong. It's not as high as some other areas but at a 13% of the population being foreigners in 2011 (and that doesn't count migrant children) migration pressure does affect the area. Which is why it was a wafer thin majority for remain and all the areas surrounding voted out (non-UK born residents went up 74% across the region in those 10 years betwen 2001 and 2011).

 

The big issue I have with Brexit is not thinking it's xenophobic or racist, but for the next ten years we'll be wrangling to fix gaps in legislation left by withdrawal, try and pull trade deals together, rework our foreign relations and argue about independence for the colonies. The immigration pressure will remain if not get worse as we're now unable to deport them to their EU country of entry and finally I'm genuinely worried about my own job prospects as a quite possibly soon-to-be low-skilled minimum wage worker in an economy that's take a hit at the top - as we all know when confidence decreases spending decreases and there's less people needed in those jobs.

 

There may be long term positives to Brexit, such as less housing pressure meaning cheaper rent and housing but those things aren't much use to me, like everyone else in the country I voted with self-interest. I've got the right to think it's a horrendous decision when it goes the other way, the key bits accepting it and just being pissed of at the 69% of 18-24 year olds who were too apathetic to care.

 

I accept that there are deep concerns, I accept that people that voted to remain would have done so for good reasons.

What I don't accept is the notion that the remain camp are somewhat more intelligent and have a better grasp of things than those who voted to leave. There were a multitude of reasons why people wanted to leave, some you cannot apply stats to.

As somebody said 'some just want to stop paying the EU and others want all the dusky faces removed from their Street'................

 

 

Some people are inferring that from the polling data. What I infer is that those who've had lower opportunities in life and are closer to the issues of immigration were more likely to vote to leave, if you've not seen the benefits of globalisation why would you vote for it? But to me that's an issue of Westminsters making not Europes (they could have stopped benefit tourism in 2001 under EU regulations quite comfortably and if they'd done that I strongly believe we'd still be in Europe) The media have deliberately been seeking out the most inarticulate, racist and downright oddball Leave voters for their vox pop segments.

 

I do feel we'd have a similar situation if this had gone the other way as some of us just wanted to keep the status quo while others were strong supporters of a federalist EU and adopting the euro.

 

Referendums aren't a great idea anyway. Polarising a nation over such a deep constitutional matter is to me a case of those we elect to make decisions wanting to pass the buck so if it all goes tits up it's the electorates fault.

 

I don't get you.

Sometimes you post inane stuff then you go and post intelligent and articulate stuff like that.

 

 

Don't worry the lobotomist gave up too.

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't mean the out vote should be overturned or anything so ridiculous. Just that I personally think it's an absolutely horrendous decision, and will be applying for my Irish passport soon to retain my own freedom of movement rights when we're forced to leave the single market by Germany and France.

 

For some reason you're entire post is in bold, so I've underlined the bits I'm replying too:

 

Firstly you're spot on about the entitlement sentiment.

 

I take issue with you picking out Newcastle, the area was only very marginally for remain and whilst there's an image of the north east by many southerners is one of no immigration it's wrong. It's not as high as some other areas but at a 13% of the population being foreigners in 2011 (and that doesn't count migrant children) migration pressure does affect the area. Which is why it was a wafer thin majority for remain and all the areas surrounding voted out (non-UK born residents went up 74% across the region in those 10 years betwen 2001 and 2011).

 

The big issue I have with Brexit is not thinking it's xenophobic or racist, but for the next ten years we'll be wrangling to fix gaps in legislation left by withdrawal, try and pull trade deals together, rework our foreign relations and argue about independence for the colonies. The immigration pressure will remain if not get worse as we're now unable to deport them to their EU country of entry and finally I'm genuinely worried about my own job prospects as a quite possibly soon-to-be low-skilled minimum wage worker in an economy that's take a hit at the top - as we all know when confidence decreases spending decreases and there's less people needed in those jobs.

 

There may be long term positives to Brexit, such as less housing pressure meaning cheaper rent and housing but those things aren't much use to me, like everyone else in the country I voted with self-interest. I've got the right to think it's a horrendous decision when it goes the other way, the key bits accepting it and just being pissed of at the 69% of 18-24 year olds who were too apathetic to care.

 

 

As Rockhopperpenguin said 'some just want to stop paying the EU and others want all the dusky faces removed from their Street'................

 

Ahem.

[YoungWillz 21,033]

Dimbleby 1975:

 

 

Dimbleby 2016:

 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

Wonder if he voted the same way both times...

[CarolAnn 926]

OK, gentlemen, trim your posts.

 

You all know that the UK's exit terms will be governed by EU rules and how effective your negotiators are, so may I suggest you line up some sports agents - the US might loan you Scott Boras if you ask nice.

 

I love you, LFN, but I have to admit to also believing that whichever side lost was going ti be a bunch of cheat screaming dickheads. Add social media and ew. I was impressed by the guy who apparently started a petition to readdress the decision of the Battle of Hastings. He wins the internet today.

[charon 4,943]

To save more multiquotes for one thing....

 

 

Davey Jones Locker - Marc Auge. 81 this year

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

OK, gentlemen, trim your posts.

 

You all know that the UK's exit terms will be governed by EU rules and how effective your negotiators are, so may I suggest you line up some sports agents - the US might loan you Scott Boras if you ask nice.

 

I love you, LFN, but I have to admit to also believing that whichever side lost was going ti be a bunch of cheat screaming dickheads. Add social media and ew. I was impressed by the guy who apparently started a petition to readdress the decision of the Battle of Hastings. He wins the internet today.

That's it!!!! That's the fucking limit.

Fucking Yanks stomping all over the Globe telling everybody else what to do!!!!

[Cat O'Falk 3,290]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/140275/moderation-info

 

[Deathray 2,940]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/140275/moderation-info

 

 

Looks as though it'll be taken down soon.

[Toast 16,132]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/140275/moderation-info

 

 

We won't be allowed to buy Euromillions tickets any more, will we?

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/140275/moderation-info

 

 

We won't be allowed to buy Euromillions tickets any more, will we?

 

............or Belgian chocolate..........or SEATs................or French Wine....................or Dutch Edam.

I fooking LOVE Edam, me.

[Deathray 2,940]

Nicola Sturgeon has vowed to refuse to give legislative consent to Brexit. Constitutional crisis imminent.

 

There's many amendments that need to be made to ensure Scotland can leave the EU under the treaties of the United Kingdom and so on. Apparently Sturgeon can block Brexit.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit

[Sean 6,314]

Nicola Sturgeon has vowed to refuse to give legislative consent to Brexit. Constitutional crisis imminent.

 

There's many amendments that need to be made to ensure Scotland can leave the EU under the treaties of the United Kingdom and so on. Apparently Sturgeon can block Brexit.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit

Christ that is dangerous.Trying to veto democracy has always been able to rile the British people up in history!

[Deathray 2,940]

 

Nicola Sturgeon has vowed to refuse to give legislative consent to Brexit. Constitutional crisis imminent.

 

There's many amendments that need to be made to ensure Scotland can leave the EU under the treaties of the United Kingdom and so on. Apparently Sturgeon can block Brexit.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit

Christ that is dangerous.Trying to veto democracy has always been able to rile the British people up in history!

 

 

It's going to be highly ironic when Scotland forces us to need the EU's help to leave the EU. I'd assume David Cameron is currently on the phone to Nicola Sturgeon informing that doing such would be a blatant disregard for democracy and telling her to hold the second referendum and fuck off.

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

Well as long as it's all been clearly thought through. It does look as though Tim Peake could still get another chance to go back into space http://spacenews.com/britains-quitting-the-eu-but-will-it-be-forced-out-of-eu-space-programs/which is a relief. Maybe we could relocate England on the moon. Now how do we decide who gets to go, hmmmm.

[msc 18,438]

 

 

Nicola Sturgeon has vowed to refuse to give legislative consent to Brexit. Constitutional crisis imminent.

 

There's many amendments that need to be made to ensure Scotland can leave the EU under the treaties of the United Kingdom and so on. Apparently Sturgeon can block Brexit.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit

Christ that is dangerous.Trying to veto democracy has always been able to rile the British people up in history!

 

 

It's going to be highly ironic when Scotland forces us to need the EU's help to leave the EU. I'd assume David Cameron is currently on the phone to Nicola Sturgeon informing that doing such would be a blatant disregard for democracy and telling her to hold the second referendum and f**k off.

 

 

Actually, quite the reverse. Constitutional changes need to be ratified by Holyrood and Stormont, as mentioned in things called The Scotland Act and The Good Friday fucking Agreement. If the Scottish or N Irish governments (or the Welsh but sod them) refuse to consent to major constitutional change, then its their democratic right under the legislation passed by the democratic Westminster, democratically.

 

There are a number of roadblocks like this will cause issues because no one on the Brexit team actually had a plan for how they'd go about things if they won.

[charon 4,943]

 

NI + Wales are not countries.

 

Fuck them.

[Deathray 2,940]

We desperately need a proprtional representation system which would allow the factions of the major parties to split off from eachother effectively, as they already seem to be doing.

[Toast 16,132]

Interesting comment apparently from The Guardian. I haven't looked for the original, just copied this from a post elsewhere.

 

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

Interesting comment apparently from The Guardian. I haven't looked for the original, just copied this from a post elsewhere.

 

Yes, this one is doing the rounds.

Good article based on supposition.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

This was one of our newspapers after England beat us at rugby on the weekend:

 

 

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Scotland's already acting like an independent nation now under Sturgeon's leadership.

 

Also this German figure more or less green-lighted their entry into the EU as a sovereign state: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-scotland-germany-idUSKCN0ZC0QT

 

That's it, I'm calling it now: the biggest death of the year for 2016 will be the United Kingdom. It is over.

[Toast 16,132]

No one likes us, we don't care

 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

Scotland's already acting like an independent nation now under Sturgeon's leadership.

 

Also this German figure more or less green-lighted their entry into the EU as a sovereign state: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-scotland-germany-idUSKCN0ZC0QT

 

That's it, I'm calling it now: the biggest death of the year for 2016 will be the United Kingdom. It is over.

 

It won't be 2016. No way she can get it done this year. There's possibly another General Election to come, plus the early stages of Brexit. I'm not sure she can push for the referendum until the terms of the Brexit are a little clearer. If we're part of the EEA, still have free movement of people and access to the common market, I think support in Scotland for independence may return to closer to the 45-55 of the last referendum. If, on the other hand, it looks like we'll not have free movement of people, or access to the common market is limited then I think support may intensify for a second referendum. While Westminster claim the terms of the last referendum haven't changed that much, as a 'No' supporter (in England) in 2014, I remember how big a case was made of Scotland's continued access to the EU, and the dangers that was put in if Scotland left. Within 2 years of that vote, we're out of the EU anyway, so it's a moot point. Personally, I think Nicola's angling for somehow continuing the UK's membership status in an independent Scotland (i.e. no need to enter the Euro, etc.). I'm not sure on the legality of that, and I think in the end they'd have to re-admit as a new member state - not least because I can see the UK causing an unholy row if the EU looked like accepting Scotland under those terms. That said, the UK is out of the EU, so wouldn't have the power to veto Scotland's entry, so if the EU were happy with that (partly no doubt to stick two fingers up at Westminster) then it could happen. I don't think it's quite certain yet that Scotland will vote to leave, though it is likely. Nicola only gets one shot at this, she has to make it count.

[Davey Jones' Locker 1,324]

Pilger's take on it all: http://johnpilger.com/articles/why-the-british-said-no-to-europe