Derby Dead Pool 2019

[Toast 16,129]

I think we should have them all back, but drop the Daily Mail. 

[YoungWillz 21,025]

Ah. I see we are weighing in on this.

 

As I recall, the main issue was that the DDP seemed to have lost its way (though I'm willing to be corrected on this by some of the more seasoned players). You can call FFBI/cancer sufferers "interesting picks" all you want (though I don't think that was what DDT meant, I hasten to add), they are not celebrities. Culminating in the Shameless era, it showed up the worst instincts of those desperate to win at all costs and the appearance of complete and total ghoulishness. To my mind picking those FFBI types is basically the equivalent of picking folk on Death Row (without the infamy).

 

Now, the Drop 40 bonus never really solved the problem as I think I pointed out on many an occasion. The bonus for a unique pick and the Drop 40 were the same, so given those picking FFBI types generally picked those younger, the FFBI picks still had an advantage and even more so when unique. The narrowing of the QOs abated that somewhat, as the risk of picking a FFBI type was increased with the requirement for a better quality of QO. I thought that was rather a jolly idea and a superb compromise to try and give a bit of balance.

 

Remember, even those of us who picked folk genuinely famous for something didn't necessarily get a QO, or indeed on a couple of occasions, no QO at all. (Ah Zara Nutley, how you were forgotten!). So that made it a doubly horrid slap in the face when John Doe with Stage 4 brain cancer who died at a tender age known only to journos or the worst sort of researcher gets a write up in the Mirror and huge pointage to boot.

 

The game had become a back-slapping clique of players congratulating themselves and each other on spotting an unique with John and Jane Doe with terminal illnesses. How lovely. Treating the other participants as those folk dressed as chickens, Big Ben or a double decker bus in a marathon, only really there to help the game and its clique congratulate themselves further on breaking the record for the number of deaths in a year/breaking the record for the number of teams participating.

 

It will never be perfect, you will never and cannot eliminate the issue. But diminishing the risk for the FFBI pickers by opening up the QOs seems to me to be an open invitation to the Shameless-es to return many fold.

 

In a world where social media is poisonous, why add to it?

 

I miss the voice of TMIB too. I felt kindred in some way and could see how he became a bit of a hostage. I too hope he returns sometime, even occasionally, just to poke us in the ribs. We all need that.

 

TL DR: I'm against opening up the QOs further, failing which I'm with Toast and do away with the Mail, lol.

[CaptainChorizo 1,977]

26 minutes ago, Toast said:

I think we should have them all back, but drop the Daily Mail. 

 

If you dropped Daily Mail most likely the only people who would lose obits are 80+ yo Us  sports and sitcom star's who's obits are copied and pasted off Associated Press. The FFBI types still get some combo of Sun,Mirror and Express,and matter of factly DM just straight up copies and paste their ffbi obit's from them.

[YoungWillz 21,025]

15 minutes ago, CaptainChorizo said:

 

If you dropped Daily Mail most likely the only people who would lose obits are 80+ yo Us  sports and sitcom star's who's obits are copied and pasted off Associated Press. The FFBI types still get some combo of Sun,Mirror and Express,and matter of factly DM just straight up copies and paste their ffbi obit's from them.

Well, you never know, I've seen FFBI's only on the Mail in the past.

 

The only other way would be for the game runner to judge each FFBI as they die, give half points for that pick and no bonuses accrue, even if unique. But that might involve some horrid coding revamping of how the system is set up.

 

I do think introducing trio, duo bonuses might be an idea as well, just throwing that hand grenade in while I'm on.

[msc 18,436]

On the subject of changing the points per reward (Drop 40, uniques, adding duos, 5000 bonus points if you are Glaswegian, ahem) I know one of the Cmme is very into some of these ideas and as they are on the Data entry part of the Cmme, I shall await their verdict on how easy (or impossible) such tweaks are before having an open floor on that.

 

We are not removing the Mail. I think most of us can agree they are a bunch of cunts, but they provide a DDP service in going after notable but slightly forgotten folk. The worst offenders for FFBI click bait appear to be The Mirror, but I'm not keen on axing one of the UK's main papers just because their standards have slipped. Standards can rise (allegedly!) too.

 

On the old QOs so far we have:

Cmme - Bring back 1 or 2.

DDT - Bring back everything

Joey - Bring back the Independent

Toast - Bring back everything

Willz. 1 - Bring back nothing

Willz. 2 - Agree with Toast

 

Also, @YoungWillz, you know my disdain for the ultra FFBI picks. I do think that the Drop 40 bonus has led to far less of those being used. IF we increase the Qualifying Obits for the DDP, then the Cmme will be keeping a close eye on the numbers of FFBI who show up next year, and if it rises, then actions may be taken. I believe there is precedent in warding off unfair picks in the past. This is my way of saying with opportunity comes responsibility to any DDP regular!

 

And besides, have you see how many celebs notify everyone they are about to shuffle? Just counting this year's DDP, I can count FIFTY-THREE hits that are based on known people (authors, statesmen, TV folk, societal faces, etc etc) who were known to be on the way out in 2018 (or very seriously ill at the least). And that's not counting Stevie Chalmers who we all missed. And that doesn't count folk like Chris Duncan (HOFer we all missed), Chris Doleman (American star still living), or your Alex Trebeks or Genesis P-orridge stars who will be on every DDP 2020 team or what not. And it doesn't count those aged frail stars you can make a reasonable guess are on the way out (Ian Holm as an example), etc etc etc. So even if you were of the type to need to pick 20 folk most likely to die, you are spoiled for choice. There's so many notables you don't *need* non-notables.

 

But again, we shall see how that sorts itself out in 2020...

[Spade_Cooley 9,515]

It's officially out of my hands/hair when that clock strikes midnight on December 31st, but fwiw... I wouldn't begrudge any change to the rules....

 

I think what it comes down to is what people are annoyed at with picks, which can obviously change from person to person. For instance, say we just had a blanket acceptance of anyone who could be classified as a "celebrity" a  la the alt.obits pool. And lets take as a random example from Wikipedia's recent deaths list, the guy who hosted Latvia's verison of Who Wants to Be A Millionaire. Now that counts as a "celebrity" by any definition of the term. He's also someone who clearly wouldn't get a QO from any English-language media source no matter how wide you opened up the requirements. Would you rather have points scored on him, or on Tyler Trent? Or Lauren Hill? I mean, to me, Lauren Hill became "famous" in her final months just due to the amount of press coverage. Would we have said Terry Fox wasn't famous if this was the 1981 DDP? What about people who are married to celebrities but weren't really famous themselves? Why does being Pat Boone's wife make you more worthy of points than being on an episode of First Dates? 

 

It's a fucking minefield nightmare, and I don't envy anyone who has to make a final decision on it.

[YoungWillz 21,025]

As I said, you can't stop folk picking the FFBI or Persons of Reflected Fame. (Unless you run a very successful Poker Deadpool - and indeed some folk have had more hits in that in 4 months than they have had in 10 months of DDP, ha! It can be done on a lower scale.)

 

It's the positive reward, the advantage gained. Volume of press coverage is no measure of achievement. Let's face it, if folk were eternally to be remembered, they'd be on the Death Anniversary Thread here. FFBI are an impulse buy of Ratners' jewellery in the 1980s. Temporary. Flashy. Worth little in the long run, but a massive ostentatious show for the moment.

 

Spade is right, it's a nightmare. Vincent Lambert was a cause celebre, for example. Tyler Trent, no matter how inspirational, no matter how much covered, was an unfortunate soul whose story was leeched on for high points in a game. Unless you increase the risk and/or diminish the reward, somehow, which was kind of done, the problem remains. Unenviable.

[Grim Up North 3,725]

I'm not sure how big a problem FFBI actually are in today's DDP.

 

How many of the teams in the top ten have any FFBI picks? (I don't know I haven't checked).

 

There definitely are some in the DDP

From my own B team this year I had Kaylea Callagher who was an FFBI without any shadow of a doubt.

I also picked Tyler Trent (poor lad) as my joker - probably right at the distasteful end of the spectrum due to his age but a super fan who also raised a lot of money and wrote a book. 

And I had Shirley Boone who as well as being Pat's wife has her own IMDB page so there is some argument there.

 

 

As a part of the team/committee (this is me emerging from the closet) who have agreed to keep the DDP going I actually think that we should just leave things as they are because a DDP that exists next year is the main priority for all players. Any changes should be for 2021 once we know what we're doing (or know that we don't know what we're doing)!

 

EDIT: But I understand why msc asked and hence once asked I understand why people have replied!

 

[Joey Russ 7,220]

At the moment, the FFBI in the top 10 are Steph Nally (who didn’t get an obit), Vicky Phelan (a bit borderline between FFBI and some actual fame imho), Dewayne Johnson (same thing with Phelan), Darren Easton (deathbed marriage name), and Keith Cass as far as I can tell. So there’s definitely less than there was in 2016/2017...

[Grim Up North 3,725]

17 minutes ago, Joey Russ said:

At the moment, the FFBI in the top 10 are Steph Nally (who didn’t get an obit), Vicky Phelan (a bit borderline between FFBI and some actual fame imho), Dewayne Johnson (same thing with Phelan), Darren Easton (deathbed marriage name), and Keith Cass as far as I can tell. So there’s definitely less than there was in 2016/2017...

 

I'm going to argue that Dewayne Johnson is famous for taking Monsanto to court for making him ill rather than simply for being ill - I accept this is arguable but he is the only one of the above 5 who appears in multiple teams.

 

With him removed it is 4 names out of 200 entries so about 2%. Of those only Easton and Cass have died and generated points so you're down to a 1% effect. 

[YoungWillz 21,025]

Well there's Dana Scatton a bit lower down.

 

Billy Clayton wouldn't have got into the Poker Tourney as a pick in a million years. The Indonesian disaster guy just about did on the back of his social media celebrity.

 

It is better now, ridiculousness in the past.

 

I'm guilty as charged, I have a pick I wouldn't otherwise have picked this year because (1) I was trying to improve on last year's score and (2) the obits opened up a bit this year. Because I picked her (not dead), I had a choice on my twentieth pick, so I chose to go for a dodgy unique rather than the more obvious potentially Drop 40 Ricksen to compensate for my overwhelming sense of guilt at picking the FFBI.

[msc 18,436]

1 minute ago, Grim Up North said:

 

I'm going to argue that Dewayne Johnson is famous for taking Monsanto to court for making him ill rather than simply for being ill - I accept this is arguable but he is the only one of the above 5 who appears in multiple teams.

 

With him removed it is 4 names out of 200 entries so about 2%. Of those only Easton and Cass have died and generated points so you're down to a 1% effect. 

 

And Cass had run a charity for 12 years and got an MBE from the palace for it, so I can see why the teams that picked him might think he had more fame.

 

Really if folk are nice and don't pick Nally/Easton "non-celebs on deathbed" types, there's no need to worry... Ahem.

 

Nugroho (famous in his own country pre-illness) and Clayton (young but making waves for non-cancer related issue) are more obscure rather than FFBI.

 

But you can all see what Spade means about that can of worms!

[alz 2]

https://twitter.com/purplediva13?lang=en

 

Not sure if here's the right place, but doleman's wife's twitter account is worth watching as you consider him for your lists

[maryportfuncity 10,639]

al-Baghdadi's undercrackers were stolen by Kurds to prove his identity - just, like, labouring the point in the hope it'll take us closer to a points payout.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50218637

[Spade_Cooley 9,515]

This story explains the propaganda value of Baghadadi's death to ISIS, suggesting that they will announce his death when they need to galvanise fanatacism among members. So if they fancy someone running down a Christmas market in a semi, they'll make a statement soon.

[Grim Up North 3,725]

On ‎23‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 22:32, maryportfuncity said:

Bloody hell - currently =8th which is likely the highest place I've ever held since fluking a top five position many years ago. Started badly too with Syed Ashraful Islam carking and not obiting. How's John Andretti doing?

 

 

Unfortunately for you and me Mary it looks like he's doing absolutely fine on this YouTube clip from two days ago.

 

John Andretti presents cheque

 

('check' for our US friends)

[Book 3,551]

13 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

John Andretti presents cheque

 

('check' for our US friends)

 

And "Scheck" for them Germans

[Sir Creep 7,070]

2 hours ago, Grim Up North said:

John Andretti presents cheque

 

('check' for our US friends)

seeing as the actual video says ‘check’ in the title, shouldn’t you be saying (‘cheque’ for our British friends)? 

[Grim Up North 3,725]

11 minutes ago, Sir Creep said:

seeing as the actual video says ‘check’ in the title, shouldn’t you be saying (‘cheque’ for our British friends)? 

No 

[gcreptile 10,964]

I wish he would present czechs.

[The Old Crem 3,582]

On 26/10/2019 at 18:48, msc said:

Just a general query for DDP players. Is there any previous DDP Qualifying obit source that you would like to see return? There were a number of them axed under TMIB's reign.

 

List of axed DDP qualifying obit sources: Yahoo UK, MSN UK, Huff Post UK, Daily Record, Scotsman, Herald, Evening Standard, UTV, STV, ITV regional pages*, Independent (now online only).

 

*I think Spade brought them back, but am unsure...

 

In terms of new media which could be used, there isn't much of note: The National and Buzzfeed UK (ugh) don't really come across as worthy DDP QO sources. Someone has already asked if we'll consider the New York Times, which I vetoed on account of it not being British enough, or at all.

 

Anyhow, having discussed it with the Cmme earlier, is there any of them folk would like to see return?

 

I suppose this is also the open floor for folk to bring up rules changes which aren't possible and the like. There wont be anything that needs heavy website programming changes done, and the limit of 3 teams per person remains.

 

Oh yes, there is a Cmme, but I'll let the others introduce themselves as and when they'd like.

 

I propose a rule allowing the BBC program Last Word to be a q/o source.

[gcreptile 10,964]

News are coming out that ISIS is confirming al-Baghdadi's death, al-jazeera has it, for example.

[maryportfuncity 10,639]

18 hours ago, gcreptile said:

News are coming out that ISIS is confirming al-Baghdadi's death, al-jazeera has it, for example.

 

 

nice one

[Spade_Cooley 9,515]

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/31/775038966/isis-confirms-baghdadis-death-and-names-his-successor?t=1572606337238 Yep, that seems pretty categoric. Kudos Maryport

[Sir Creep 7,070]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50203276
Not sure if my John Conyers unique noted.  Here you QO  (NOTE:::::: I SEE IT POSTED NOW)

BTW: "From 1958 to 1961 John Conyers worked as a legislative assistant to John Dingell"
My two HITS for Made in Detroit!  Together again! 

Oh and lovely headline re: Vervoort 'suicide blonde' - been sitting on that for a year, Spade?