Doctor Who

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

11 minutes ago, ladyfiona said:

Honestly, just get David Bradley and other similar looking people to re-create the episode(s) that are "missing" for 1st doctor.

 

Not really fair on Bill Russell and Carole Ann Ford et al. who have no beef with the BBC and are very proud of their associations with Doctor Who though.

[Bibliogryphon 9,579]

42 minutes ago, ladyfiona said:

Honestly, just get David Bradley and other similar looking people to re-create the episode(s) that are "missing" for 1st doctor.

 

That would not help in the case of AUC because he is claiming rights over the intellectual property.

 

However the fan made version of Mission to the Unknown was excellent and I would be happy to see other missing episodes given the same treatment 

[Evil Grimace 359]

Has anyone seen this?  Any thoughts on what the episodes might be?  My cursory look at Wikipedia narrows down the Dalek episode mentioned to either 'Mission to the Unknown' or one from 'The Daleks Masterplan'.  No hint on the other, except it being from the Hartnell era.

 

Lost Doctor Who episodes found – but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

16 hours ago, Evil Grimace said:

Has anyone seen this?  Any thoughts on what the episodes might be?  My cursory look at Wikipedia narrows down the Dalek episode mentioned to either 'Mission to the Unknown' or one from 'The Daleks Masterplan'.  No hint on the other, except it being from the Hartnell era.

 

Lost Doctor Who episodes found – but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC

 

Just read this article in the Observer. This paragraph stood out. There may be lots of them put there.

 

"Until the recent discoveries, it was believed that a total of 97 Doctor Who episodes were missing from the show’s first six years. Chris Perry, head of the TV archive Kaleidoscope, has recently claimed that he knows of many in private archives that could be returned, with the right assurances."

[msc 18,443]

54 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

Just read this article in the Observer. This paragraph stood out. There may be lots of them put there.

 

"Until the recent discoveries, it was believed that a total of 97 Doctor Who episodes were missing from the show’s first six years. Chris Perry, head of the TV archive Kaleidoscope, has recently claimed that he knows of many in private archives that could be returned, with the right assurances."

 

There are some, absolutely, in collector hands, but there's a lot of Chinese whispers* going on, including in that Observer piece. Still, the restoration team know specifically who has a few, so there remains the hope we'll get to see them again one day. (But not this month!)

 

*That article pretty much suggests one of the missing Dalek Master Plan episodes (4 or 12, likely) but apparently that's someone putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5! And assumption, as Master Plan episode 4 was never junked, it just disappeared one day. See also Tenth Planet episode 4, the first regeneration. Went to Blue Peter to show the footage of the regeneration, never went back to the archives!

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,039]

On 11/10/2023 at 09:13, Bibliogryphon said:

Good news for all Doctor Who fans on here.

 

After selling the episodes to die hard fans in every possible format the BBC have now created a Doctor Who zone on iPlayer where all the remaining classic episodes will be available alongside the spin off shows, the new series and documentaries and other DW related information.

 

For those who are not fans you can watch the old episodes and play the Dead or Alive game with all those jobbing British bit part players

More good news for all Doctor Who fans on here.

 

The surviving audio (with linking narration) of Marco Polo, The Dalek's Master Plan & The Wheel in Space have all been added to BBC Sounds, don't know why it's just those three but I'd only assume that there are more on the way.

Also now on BBC Sounds are a couple of Big Finish audio dramas, specifically the first few Tenth Doctor Adventures, Out of Time 1 & The Beginning (with more on the way).

 

And in case anyone didn't know there have been 3 Torchwood audio dramas on sounds for a while and if you have Spotify lots of early Big Finish is available to stream on there.

[ladyfiona 2,585]

There are some rumours floating about that 8th Doctor is to get his own TV show.

[YoungWillz 21,044]

Might be late to the party on this but rewatching An Adventure In Space And Time and to see Ncuti Gatwa take the place of Matt Smith at the end was a surprise!

 

Roll on Saturday!

[Bibliogryphon 9,579]

6 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

Might be late to the party on this but rewatching An Adventure In Space And Time and to see Ncuti Gatwa take the place of Matt Smith at the end was a surprise!

 

Roll on Saturday!

 

That was the first time I had watched that. It was excellent 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

23 hours ago, YoungWillz said:

Might be late to the party on this but rewatching An Adventure In Space And Time and to see Ncuti Gatwa take the place of Matt Smith at the end was a surprise!

Roll on Saturday!

 

16 hours ago, Bibliogryphon said:

That was the first time I had watched that. It was excellent 

 

I watched it in 2013, it was really good. Going to have to take a look at the final scene if it's really been updated! Didn't watch it again on Thursday, but watched The Daleks in Colour before it, which was enjoyable. Surprised to see that the 75 minute edit came from an original that was 7 episodes and 167 minutes long though! It felt a little slow paced as it was, I dread to think how much was cut out! But it was nice to see the origins of some classic baddies.

[msc 18,443]

34 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

 

I watched it in 2013, it was really good. Going to have to take a look at the final scene if it's really been updated! Didn't watch it again on Thursday, but watched The Daleks in Colour before it, which was enjoyable. Surprised to see that the 75 minute edit came from an original that was 7 episodes and 167 minutes long though! It felt a little slow paced as it was, I dread to think how much was cut out! But it was nice to see the origins of some classic baddies.

Most of episodes 4-7. The travel to the Daleks base was cut down to five minutes. Also the escape was edited so quickly as to lose all tension. It's difficult to cut 100 minutes off something which gained a reputation through its tense atmosphere!

 

Hoping the experimental will transfer to some of the four parter Hartnell's which might work better in the 75 minute movie format. 

 

Or if they cut most of the missing episode, Web of Fear in colour? Yetis in the London Underground massacring everyone. 

 

Tenth Planet would be an obvious one of not for the missing episode! An unearthly child is Stef'd. Aztecs, War Machines, Enemy of the World also possibles with more sympathetic edits than The Daleks got!

[YoungWillz 21,044]

Kids today.

 

The great thing about  yer classic Doctor Who was that it was treated as a drama. So while it may seem a little slow for today's audiences, the great thing was you got to know the characters in depth - thus your love or dislike for characters was all the more, and there was more tension. 

 

Conversely, I find the 45 minuters of today too fast, all action so the regular cast get the development and the supporting cast are to a great extent ignored - I really ended up not caring whether Graham's partner got killed for example. All too rushed, no character development, no machinations or glimpses of planning for the denouement by the baddies. Having said that, there are great episodes of New Who, I just find them so glancing that to this day I don't really understand the arcs they are supposed to reflect - Bad Wolf? What was that? I said. 

 

It's like you have to invest in stuff outwith the TV episodes to understand a lot of it, whereas in the good old days, it was all in front of you.

 

But then, I'm old and grumpy about things.

[Sly Ronnie 879]

I re-watched the first episode - The Dead Planet - to compare and there were a couple of notable bits missed out, such as the scene with the metal creature which any story writing hack will tell you sets up a bit of foreshadowing and the bit where the TARDIS crew use the food machine and Ian says that the bacon and eggs confection had too much salt and The Doctor quickly replies "Well it shouldn't do, it's English!" (an adlib from Hartnell, I believe).

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

22 minutes ago, msc said:

Most of episodes 4-7. The travel to the Daleks base was cut down to five minutes. Also the escape was edited so quickly as to lose all tension. It's difficult to cut 100 minutes off something which gained a reputation through its tense atmosphere!

 

Hoping the experimental will transfer to some of the four parter Hartnell's which might work better in the 75 minute movie format. 

 

Or if they cut most of the missing episode, Web of Fear in colour? Yetis in the London Underground massacring everyone. 

 

Tenth Planet would be an obvious one of not for the missing episode! An unearthly child is Stef'd. Aztecs, War Machines, Enemy of the World also possibles with more sympathetic edits than The Daleks got!

 

Fair enough. I was surprised in some ways it was only 75 minutes, was expecting at least 90, especially having seen how much was cut. It will be interesting to see if they do give any more the same treatment. Was perusing the Whoniverse on iPlayer earlier and have noticed they've really tried to make it as complete as possible, including animated versions of lost visuals for partial or whole stories.

 

9 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Kids today.

 

The great thing about  yer classic Doctor Who was that it was treated as a drama. So while it may seem a little slow for today's audiences, the great thing was you got to know the characters in depth - thus your love or dislike for characters was all the more, and there was more tension. 

 

Conversely, I find the 45 minuters of today too fast, all action so the regular cast get the development and the supporting cast are to a great extent ignored - I really ended up not caring whether Graham's partner got killed for example. All too rushed, no character development, no machinations or glimpses of planning for the denouement by the baddies. Having said that, there are great episodes of New Who, I just find them so glancing that to this day I don't really understand the arcs they are supposed to reflect - Bad Wolf? What was that? I said. 

 

It's like you have to invest in stuff outwith the TV episodes to understand a lot of it, whereas in the good old days, it was all in front of you.

 

But then, I'm old and grumpy about things.

 

I said I enjoyed it!  TV generally was very different back then, much slower paced and brooding. And I did admire the levels of detail to what was ostensibly a kids show. Turning a 7 part episodic drama of 25 minute instalments into a 75 minute TV movie is a difficult task, as they are completely different media. I think New Who made the right choice for the 21st century to make most stories self-contained, rather than maintaining the episodic nature of the original run, suits the current pick 'n' mix nature of tv, and you don't have to follow everything to enjoy it. But there are arcs if you're looking for them. Season 1 has lots of references to Bad Wolf (graffiti, comments, etc.), Season 2 has lots of references to Torchwood, which is the setting for the finale, Season 3 mentions Mr Saxon a lot, who is the Prime Minister (and also the Master we discover), Season 4 features a lost planet in every episode, leading to Davros's masterplan, Season 5 is cracks in space-time, Season 6 is the secrets of River Song, Season 7 is The Impossible Girl (Clara Oswald) and Season 8 is whether Capaldi is a good man/Missy's plan and identity. They've been less pronounced in more recent seasons (or maybe I stopped noticing - I'm not as young as I used to be!).

 

World's totally different now though: back then, there were 3 channels and if you didn't watch it live, you'd missed it. Event TV in every sense. Nowadays you can watch it live, watch it later, wait 'til the series has finished then watch it all in a day, watch it in the background while you play on your phone. It's sad but true. I do find it puzzling that Chris Chibnall, who's big success with Broadchurch was built entirely on character development, seemed to have such trouble with this regard in Doctor Who. There were good episodes of Jodie's run, but it was much more up and down than some of the earlier seasons.

[The Old Crem 3,594]

I loved it tonigh.

[YoungWillz 21,044]

Marvellous to have the proper gang back together.

 

However, instantly saw the plotlines coming - well you have to in 45 minutes.

 

So things I didn't get or thought were weak. What the fuck was that metacrisis thing just "going away"? Why were the controls to simply switch off the possession of the soldiers outside the ship?  That was an absolute joke. Once again a ton of supporting cast who we don't know or care about - who are the Roth? Where are they from? Who is the dame in the wheelchair? The wheelchair arguably got more character development. I've more, but jesus it's not worth the skin off my fingerprints.

 

Seems to me the story was underdeveloped for the sake of trying to dramatise the reintroduction of Donna to the Doctor. 

 

So, not a great hit imo.

[msc 18,443]

The psychotic hamster stole the show. Light entertainment but I think I'd have loved that as a kid.

[YoungWillz 21,044]

6 minutes ago, msc said:

The psychotic hamster stole the show. Light entertainment but I think I'd have loved that as a kid.

Played for laughs, a lot of it. It was like a wrap party before it got started. 

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,039]

I really enjoyed it. Thought to conclusion was a tad 'deus ex machina' but apart from that I think it worked.

 

Jackie King as Sylvia stole the show for me and I want to run over that little space rat. Having to fix the Doctor-Donna meta crisis meant the main plot did get sidelined in parts but I don't think it was too bad.

 

Guest cast were basically non-existent but they didn't need to be, apart from Ruth Madeley who is set to be in at least another episode so there is room to grow. 

 

The effects, especially on the Meep, were brilliant which makes sense as that single episode had the same budget as the whole of Series 1 in 2005.

 

I'm getting nervous that Cribbins has had to be edited out due to not finishing his filming before he died, he could still be in episode 3 though.

 

7/10

 

Definitely looking forward to next week now that there is nothing to set up and it can focus entirely on the plot.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

It wasn't quite 2009-10 levels of brilliant, but it did a decent job of continuing the story but telling a new story at the same time. Feels odd seeing Doctor Who with these levels of budgets. I'm not complaining but sometimes less is more maybe (The Meep was brilliantly realised though). @YoungWillz, I think the character development argument is a little misplaced when you consider that while each story is largely self-contained, they are all episodes of the same drama. So it is perfectly plausible that we'll see a little more development of the girl in the wheelchair (I was under the impression she'd be in more episodes too) and perhaps Shaun and Rose too. But nothing on the levels of the 1960s I'm afraid, I grant you. Anyway, girl in wheelchair is the UNIT Scientific Advisor, a role originated by the Doctor, what more character development do you need? 

 

My personal gripe was over Rose, which is annoying because I really liked her character and her role in the story. We are told that it is 15 years since Donna had a "breakdown" and got amnesia. So the maximum age that Rose can be is 15, since we know Donna hadn't had her before and, as far as we know wasn't pregnant when we last met her. And yet it appears that Rose is female...but that she was born a male (Jason?). But there's no way she's transitioned to the degree it appears she has at 15. And it's not as though she appears to be 15 either...she certainly seems in many ways to be closer to 18 than 15 (no idea how old the actress is but that's never an accurate measure in showbusiness anyway).

 

Really liked the new design of the TARDIS, hope it's not just gone up in smoke inside 10 minutes and will be ditched after these 3 specials (although I fear it will be). Some nice foreshadowing of the other 2 specials, The Meep mentioning "The Boss" (presumably the Toymaster?). Excited to see the other 2 and how they stack up as a trilogy. @Commtech Sio Bibble - I think we're gonna see Wilf at some point (maybe at the end). I don't think there'd have been such heavy references to him if not, they could have re-shot the scenes or edited it to remove the references. They've teased that the Doctor wants to see him, so he'll get his wish and Wilf will be able to die knowing that Donna remembers everything again. As for the metacrisis solution, yes it was deus ex machina, yes it was ridiculously simple, but I like that it wasn't a big deal. We established the first time around that the Doctor-Donna has advantages over the Doctor because of that "little bit of human" and sometimes, there are surprisingly simple solutions to seemingly impossible conundrums. And, as @msc said, I imagine if you're a kid, you couldn't give a hoot. The evil gremlin was arrested, Donna is safe, the TARDIS is on fire - roll on next Saturday!

[ladyfiona 2,585]

Loved the episode and you can clearly see the Disney effect and money put in. The writing of RTD just brought me back to when I was 17 and I was watching Doctor-Donna for the first time. Lovely partnership. The new look TARDIS gives me Cerebro from X Men vibes. Feels a bit too big and empty like something needs to be below deck.

 

Bernard Cribbins will certainly be in it. In BTS footage he made the readthrough for sure so even has lines.

 

Annoyingly I won't be able to see it live next week as i'm off having a work Christmas meal.

[YoungWillz 21,044]

19 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

Anyway, girl in wheelchair is the UNIT Scientific Advisor, a role originated by the Doctor, what more character development do you need? 

She says she's the scientific advisor I hope there's more to her than just that. Remember if the Doctor lies...

 

Apparently it's the Wrarth, not the Roth, ha!

 

Maybe the assumption that it's present day leads you astray? It might not be - Rose could still be at school at 18 or even 19.

 

I think they could have left stuff out of this episode to concentrate on the story - all too rushed and underthought as usual. I stress again, imo. There was a lot to like, but a lot to dislike.

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,039]

18 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

My personal gripe was over Rose, which is annoying because I really liked her character and her role in the story. We are told that it is 15 years since Donna had a "breakdown" and got amnesia. So the maximum age that Rose can be is 15, since we know Donna hadn't had her before and, as far as we know wasn't pregnant when we last met her. And yet it appears that Rose is female...but that she was born a male (Jason?). But there's no way she's transitioned to the degree it appears she has at 15. And it's not as though she appears to be 15 either...she certainly seems in many ways to be closer to 18 than 15 (no idea how old the actress is but that's never an accurate measure in showbusiness anyway).

RTD himself has admitted that he has buggered up the timing with this one, Finney (the actress) is 20 and the character is meant to be around 15, an age which clearly doesn't fit the timeline unless she is adopted but the ending removes that option entirely. We don't really know how far along the process of transitioning that Rose is and it's probably not going to be told to us, yes there is a slight issue with realism but I'm not that fussed as it's great representation and gets tories with brain rot on twitter angry.

[ladyfiona 2,585]

 

My excuse for Rose's age.

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

26 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

She says she's the scientific advisor I hope there's more to her than just that. Remember if the Doctor lies...

Apparently it's the Wrarth, not the Roth, ha!

Maybe the assumption that it's present day leads you astray? It might not be - Rose could still be at school at 18 or even 19.

I think they could have left stuff out of this episode to concentrate on the story - all too rushed and underthought as usual. I stress again, imo. There was a lot to like, but a lot to dislike.

 

The present day bit doesn't bother me, technically we're only 13 years on from Donna's appearance in The End of Time, 15 if we're going from Journey's End. And I'm specifically going off what Sylvia says in the kitchen that it's been 15 years since her breakdown, and Donna was never pregnant when we saw her and she never had a child in her "home life" that we've seen. Anyway, Commtech seems to have given us the real life explanation! 

 

18 minutes ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

RTD himself has admitted that he has buggered up the timing with this one, Finney (the actress) is 20 and the character is meant to be around 15, an age which clearly doesn't fit the timeline unless she is adopted but the ending removes that option entirely. We don't really know how far along the process of transitioning that Rose is and it's probably not going to be told to us, yes there is a slight issue with realism but I'm not that fussed as it's great representation and gets tories with brain rot on twitter angry.

 

Thanks for this, always good to just admit to a dating fuck-up I find! Just a bit frustrating given the important role she's playing in normalising the lifestyle, gives a needless stick to beat to the fascists. I love the idea that her gender fluidity matches the Doctor's own, it was very cleverly done. Didn't actually realise when watching that Yasmin is trans herself, which is also important. And there will definitely be some blowback from some sections of the press and doubtless a few Whovians too.

 

Just watching DW: Unleashed on Beeb 1 and Russell is teasing that it's building to an epic climax that's never been seen before in Doctor Who. So, you know, there's that to look forward to...