Doctor Who

[The Old Crem 3,181]

1 hour ago, RoverAndOut said:

It wasn't quite 2009-10 levels of brilliant, but it did a decent job of continuing the story but telling a new story at the same time. Feels odd seeing Doctor Who with these levels of budgets. I'm not complaining but sometimes less is more maybe (The Meep was brilliantly realised though). @YoungWillz, I think the character development argument is a little misplaced when you consider that while each story is largely self-contained, they are all episodes of the same drama. So it is perfectly plausible that we'll see a little more development of the girl in the wheelchair (I was under the impression she'd be in more episodes too) and perhaps Shaun and Rose too. But nothing on the levels of the 1960s I'm afraid, I grant you. Anyway, girl in wheelchair is the UNIT Scientific Advisor, a role originated by the Doctor, what more character development do you need? 

 

My personal gripe was over Rose, which is annoying because I really liked her character and her role in the story. We are told that it is 15 years since Donna had a "breakdown" and got amnesia. So the maximum age that Rose can be is 15, since we know Donna hadn't had her before and, as far as we know wasn't pregnant when we last met her. And yet it appears that Rose is female...but that she was born a male (Jason?). But there's no way she's transitioned to the degree it appears she has at 15. And it's not as though she appears to be 15 either...she certainly seems in many ways to be closer to 18 than 15 (no idea how old the actress is but that's never an accurate measure in showbusiness anyway).

 

Really liked the new design of the TARDIS, hope it's not just gone up in smoke inside 10 minutes and will be ditched after these 3 specials (although I fear it will be). Some nice foreshadowing of the other 2 specials, The Meep mentioning "The Boss" (presumably the Toymaster?). Excited to see the other 2 and how they stack up as a trilogy. @Commtech Sio Bibble - I think we're gonna see Wilf at some point (maybe at the end). I don't think there'd have been such heavy references to him if not, they could have re-shot the scenes or edited it to remove the references. They've teased that the Doctor wants to see him, so he'll get his wish and Wilf will be able to die knowing that Donna remembers everything again. As for the metacrisis solution, yes it was deus ex machina, yes it was ridiculously simple, but I like that it wasn't a big deal. We established the first time around that the Doctor-Donna has advantages over the Doctor because of that "little bit of human" and sometimes, there are surprisingly simple solutions to seemingly impossible conundrums. And, as @msc said, I imagine if you're a kid, you couldn't give a hoot. The evil gremlin was arrested, Donna is safe, the TARDIS is on fire - roll on next Saturday!

Yasmin Finney is 20 now and 18 when she filmed the specials. 

[RoverAndOut 3,483]

10 minutes ago, The Old Crem said:

Yasmin Finney is 20 now and 18 when she filmed the specials. 

 

As covered òn the previous page...

[BuffaloPhil 597]

There are always things that you can pick holes in with TV shows, and often more so with DW. I prefer to just shrug my shoulders and enjoy it for what it is, and I thought it was an excellent episode. Tennant is my favourite Doctor so I was loving seeing him back in the role. And Miriam Margolyes voicing the Meep was perfect casting!

[RoverAndOut 3,483]

5 hours ago, BuffaloPhil said:

There are always things that you can pick holes in with TV shows, and often more so with DW. I prefer to just shrug my shoulders and enjoy it for what it is, and I thought it was an excellent episode. Tennant is my favourite Doctor so I was loving seeing him back in the role. And Miriam Margolyes voicing the Meep was perfect casting!

 

The more I've reflected on it, the more I've come to this conclusion. It was a bit of Saturday night entertainment. For the most part it wasn't dense or serious, it was fun and exciting. There's been better episodes of New Who, but it was a perfectly enjoyable way to spend an hour on a Saturday night. 

[YoungWillz 19,103]

Much better.

[Commtech Sio Bibble 1,369]

That was possibly the best episode of Who for a long time, utterly insane, had me on the edge of my seat for the entire thing. The opening scene with Isaac Newton wasn't exactly good but apart from that some great sci-fi that felt very classic horror but also fresh and new. Cribbins at the end almost killed me.

 

9/10

[RoverAndOut 3,483]

Now THAT was a belter! Properly creepy, clever solution and brilliant cliffhanger! 

 

Still think it's a bit too polished production-wise, and the SFX are abit too shiny and perfect (what a complaint to have about Dr Who! ) but I'm getting used to it now.

 

And the Bernard Cribbins reveal was wonderful. Looks like he may have a part to play next week too! Hopefully Tennant goes out with a bang!

[RoverAndOut 3,483]

 

[The Old Crem 3,181]

43 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

Now THAT was a belter! Properly creepy, clever solution and brilliant cliffhanger! 

 

Still think it's a bit too polished production-wise, and the SFX are abit too shiny and perfect (what a complaint to have about Dr Who! ) but I'm getting used to it now.

 

And the Bernard Cribbins reveal was wonderful. Looks like he may have a part to play next week too! Hopefully Tennant goes out with a bang!

Sadly tonight was the only scene Bernard was able to film. Next week he will only be mentioned. 

[BuffaloPhil 597]

Yep, tremendous episode. Was wonderful to see Cribbins for one last time. What a legend.

Quite enjoying the Doctor Who Unleashed as well, interesting to see how some of the effects were done.

[prussianblue 792]

I don't watch new Who (has just never interested me), but I've been enjoying working my way through the original episodes on iPlayer. I find myself cursing the indiscriminate way in which the BBC wiped the tapes. I really like the Hartnell historical episodes, so of course they had to junk all of Marco Polo, half The Crusade, etc. Meanwhile the embarrassing tedium of The Web Planet is preserved in its entirety, all 6 overstretched episodes worth.

[msc 17,763]

1 hour ago, prussianblue said:

I don't watch new Who (has just never interested me), but I've been enjoying working my way through the original episodes on iPlayer. I find myself cursing the indiscriminate way in which the BBC wiped the tapes. I really like the Hartnell historical episodes, so of course they had to junk all of Marco Polo, half The Crusade, etc. Meanwhile the embarrassing tedium of The Web Planet is preserved in its entirety, all 6 overstretched episodes worth.

The Massacre is the worst of the Hartnell historical losses. Hartnell in a dual role, a grim plot, directed by a TV great and with an amazing cast (Quatermass himself is in it) and pioneered some TV effects. We have nothing of it bar the audio. 

 

The Smugglers is also gone bar 90 seconds of footage which suggests it was an engagingly made thriller.

 

The Myth Makers audio has entire moments of silence because the story was focused on the visual story telling. Very infuriating. 

 

Even some of the big favourite SF stories suffered. See the 6 part epic Dalek story which Patrick Troughton debuted in, or most of his 7 part Dalek war series finale in 1967. Fury from the Deep was loved by my mum. Seaweed taking over oil rigs, lots of folk horror stuff which sounds amazing on audio (and they've animated it). What do we have? About 40 seconds of off air clips, which suggest the rest of it was as amazing as everyone says. 

 

Mind you, we lost the BBC coverage of the moon landings at the same time too.

[prussianblue 792]

3 hours ago, msc said:

The Massacre is the worst of the Hartnell historical losses. Hartnell in a dual role, a grim plot, directed by a TV great and with an amazing cast (Quatermass himself is in it) and pioneered some TV effects. We have nothing of it bar the audio. 

 

The Smugglers is also gone bar 90 seconds of footage which suggests it was an engagingly made thriller.

 

The Myth Makers audio has entire moments of silence because the story was focused on the visual story telling. Very infuriating. 

 

Even some of the big favourite SF stories suffered. See the 6 part epic Dalek story which Patrick Troughton debuted in, or most of his 7 part Dalek war series finale in 1967. Fury from the Deep was loved by my mum. Seaweed taking over oil rigs, lots of folk horror stuff which sounds amazing on audio (and they've animated it). What do we have? About 40 seconds of off air clips, which suggest the rest of it was as amazing as everyone says. 

 

Mind you, we lost the BBC coverage of the moon landings at the same time too.

 

I thought the Reign of Terror animated reconstruction episodes were fairly good, would love them to have the resources to do that with all of the survivors in audio-only form.

I've been surprised at how little I've been engaged by the 'space' episodes compared with the 'time' ones. I found The Sensorites and The Rescue really quite boring and stagey. Even The Daleks drags a bit. I enjoyed The Keys of Marinus, but I know that's not thought highly of by some.

I was reading into the wider losses at the BBC and the moon landings really does stand out. Fair enough not valuing a kids sci-fi show, but argubly mankind's greatest achievement? But even NASA fucked up preserving that footage.

[msc 17,763]

1 minute ago, prussianblue said:

 

I thought the Reign of Terror animated reconstruction episodes were fairly good, would love them to have the resources to do that with all of the survivors in audio-only form.

I've been surprised at how little I've been engaged by the 'space' episodes compared with the 'time' ones. I found The Sensorites and The Rescue really quite boring and stagey. Even The Daleks drags a bit. I enjoyed The Keys of Marinus, but I know that's not thought highly of by some.

I didn't think of Reign of Terror there, but come to think of it, the best scene (Ian and Barbara arguing about the ethics of time travel and "the good guys") is in a missing episode!

 

Most of the early Hartnell space stories don't tend to be massively loved - Sensorites, Rescue, Keys of Marinus, Web Planet, Space Museum, all have their fans but none are lauded as classics. (Of those, I like The Space Museum the most, though it suffers from a director unsuited to comedy, and a lead guest actor who suffered a concussion shortly before recording! Marinus is absolutely schizophrenic, great stuff not to the mind-blowingly dull!) The Dalek Master Plan was probably the first proper space epic but, oh look, 9 episodes of 12 are missing!

 

 

[Commtech Sio Bibble 1,369]

4 hours ago, prussianblue said:

I don't watch new Who (has just never interested me), but I've been enjoying working my way through the original episodes on iPlayer. I find myself cursing the indiscriminate way in which the BBC wiped the tapes. I really like the Hartnell historical episodes, so of course they had to junk all of Marco Polo, half The Crusade, etc. Meanwhile the embarrassing tedium of The Web Planet is preserved in its entirety, all 6 overstretched episodes worth.

60s historical episodes are my absolute favourites. Marco Polo, The Aztecs, The Romans, The Massacre always get flooded with praise but I don't think that there is a bad historical episode in the 1960s, even the often mocked Gunfighters is still terrifically entertaining. 

 

The loss of the episodes is devastating but I will admit that I adore being able to experience them in audio form only and using my imagination. Marco Polo, The Massacre and The Myth Makers are three of my favourite Hartnell serials because every-time I'm listening to them I can scale up the (most likely) small sets into worlds of their own.

[prussianblue 792]

3 minutes ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

The loss of the episodes is devastating but I will admit that I adore being able to experience them in audio form only and using my imagination. Marco Polo, The Massacre and The Myth Makers are three of my favourite Hartnell serials because every-time I'm listening to them I can scale up the (most likely) small sets into worlds of their own.

 

The sets are one way in which I've found the historical episodes to be superior. There are depictions of an Aztec garden, a Roman villa, a medieval Jaffa bazaar etc. that are quite convincing, considering the scale and budget they had to work with. Somehow the futuristic cities and spaceships feel much more cramped and cardboard to me. I don't know if that's just that the BBC set designers and builders had relatively more experience or skill in creating period looks? The I, Claudius sets from a few years later are pretty much on a similar small scale, but they look great.

A non-historical story that did do some great sets was Planet of Giants. It would have been very easy to make those scaled-up plugholes, phones etc. look terrible, but they don't.

[msc 17,763]

50 minutes ago, prussianblue said:

 

The sets are one way in which I've found the historical episodes to be superior. There are depictions of an Aztec garden, a Roman villa, a medieval Jaffa bazaar etc. that are quite convincing, considering the scale and budget they had to work with. Somehow the futuristic cities and spaceships feel much more cramped and cardboard to me. I don't know if that's just that the BBC set designers and builders had relatively more experience or skill in creating period looks? The I, Claudius sets from a few years later are pretty much on a similar small scale, but they look great.

A non-historical story that did do some great sets was Planet of Giants. It would have been very easy to make those scaled-up plugholes, phones etc. look terrible, but they don't.

The BBC prop department in the sixties was one of the best for historical drama. The production teams all had a lot of experience in dressing up Shakespeare and others.

 

(Oh, and Planet of Giants, that model fly is genuinely superb.)

[RoverAndOut 3,483]

On 02/12/2023 at 23:22, BuffaloPhil said:

Yep, tremendous episode. Was wonderful to see Cribbins for one last time. What a legend.

Quite enjoying the Doctor Who Unleashed as well, interesting to see how some of the effects were done.

 

Doctor Who Confidential used to be great! Don't know why they ever got rid of it. 

[The Old Crem 3,181]

2 hours ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

Doctor Who Confidential used to be great! Don't know why they ever got rid of it. 

Budget cuts.

[RoverAndOut 3,483]

Radio Times loved The Giggle! (Spoiler Free!)

 

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-the-giggle-preview/

[Commtech Sio Bibble 1,369]

Erm ok... Not sure how to feel. I liked the episode itself. Everything until the regeneration was brilliant, loved the Spice Girls musical number and the creepy puppets. Maybe the Toymaker was a bit wasted and the 'mind virus' plot was a bit rushed in order to serve that twist. The amount of references to the past was staggering and that certainly kept me entertained. I think I will be okay with that twist given that 14 can't regenerate again and is just left to live out the rest of his life and as long as we are not constantly going back to the Nobel family and 14. What I can be certain of is that I like 15 so far, so FUN.

 

I can't even begin to score it.

[ladyfiona 2,042]

 

I'm still processing that episode but I feel it should have been a two parter (or hour and half). Also validated my fear of string puppets/ventriloquist dummies.

 

9/10.

[RoverAndOut 3,483]

I liked it! Yes, it's an awkward and controversial transition (RTD said as much pre-airing) but if it keeps Tennant around in the background, I'm not complaining! Don't think he'll be popping up every 2 minutes, Ncuti's got a series in the can and another in production. But Donna's suggestion he's staying put til he recovers was a good way of saying "never say never." All sorts of possibilities for the future with Tennant and Tate but for now, it's Gatwa's time! He seems quite a dynamic and confident presence and it feels like his season is going to be a proper reset of the format, which will be interesting.

 

NPH was superb as the Toymaker. Menacing, playful, inscrutable, it's a shame his stint was so short. This really should have been a two-parter, with part 1 ending with the regeneration cliffhanger (although we've been there before with Tennant, with similarly inconclusive results). Shame Bernard Cribbins could film no more, it was awkward having him involved "off screen".

 

A couple of notes:

1. Who picked up the Master trapped in the gold tooth? This had parallels with Simm's Master in the first story RTD introduced him with, when his ring was picked up off his funeral pyre with a cackling laugh echoing.

 

2. Did Donna take Kate's offer then? Working for UNIT for 120 grand and 5 weeks' holiday? That should help her get back on her feet financially. Although, if 14 is sticking around, surely he can be a consultant anyway, a la Pertwee all those years ago.

 

3. Who was The Meep's boss? No mention today, so maybe not the Toymaker as previously thought?

 

4. What is the creature that is coming that The Toymaker ran away from? The one that is "for another story"? Perhaps Gatwa will find out next year...

[Commtech Sio Bibble 1,369]

My main take away is that it certainly feels like a soft reboot.

[The Old Crem 3,181]

14 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

I liked it! Yes, it's an awkward and controversial transition (RTD said as much pre-airing) but if it keeps Tennant around in the background, I'm not complaining! Don't think he'll be popping up every 2 minutes, Ncuti's got a series in the can and another in production. But Donna's suggestion he's staying put til he recovers was a good way of saying "never say never." All sorts of possibilities for the future with Tennant and Tate but for now, it's Gatwa's time! He seems quite a dynamic and confident presence and it feels like his season is going to be a proper reset of the format, which will be interesting.

 

NPH was superb as the Toymaker. Menacing, playful, inscrutable, it's a shame his stint was so short. This really should have been a two-parter, with part 1 ending with the regeneration cliffhanger (although we've been there before with Tennant, with similarly inconclusive results). Shame Bernard Cribbins could film no more, it was awkward having him involved "off screen".

 

A couple of notes:

1. Who picked up the Master trapped in the gold tooth? This had parallels with Simm's Master in the first story RTD introduced him with, when his ring was picked up off his funeral pyre with a cackling laugh echoing.

 

2. Did Donna take Kate's offer then? Working for UNIT for 120 grand and 5 weeks' holiday? That should help her get back on her feet financially. Although, if 14 is sticking around, surely he can be a consultant anyway, a la Pertwee all those years ago.

 

3. Who was The Meep's boss? No mention today, so maybe not the Toymaker as previously thought?

 

4. What is the creature that is coming that The Toymaker ran away from? The one that is "for another story"? Perhaps Gatwa will find out next year...

The rumour is the Rani is coming back played by the confirmed casting of Indira Varma.