The EU Referendum Hokey Cokey

[msc 18,477]

I reckon turnout for the referendum will be somewhere in the high 80s percentage wise. If it's above 83.9% it would beat the 1950 general election turnout to highest UK wide referendum/election turnout (the Scots take the crown of highest turnout in a UK election or referendum at 84.3% last year since figures appear to be available - easily at least - (1918) in England. Although I reckon that's extremely optimistic as the 1975 one garnered only a 65% turnout.

 

I still reckon, similar to the Scottish referendum, turnout will pale any general election in recent years.

 

Summer, likely to be a warm sunny day with daylight until after 10pm, voting on a subject I suspect the vast majority of people don't give two shits about either way, despite the vocal loud minorities on both sides?

 

It'll be around the AV referendum turnout, I'm guessing.

[Deathray 2,940]

 

I reckon turnout for the referendum will be somewhere in the high 80s percentage wise. If it's above 83.9% it would beat the 1950 general election turnout to highest UK wide referendum/election turnout (the Scots take the crown of highest turnout in a UK election or referendum at 84.3% last year since figures appear to be available - easily at least - (1918) in England. Although I reckon that's extremely optimistic as the 1975 one garnered only a 65% turnout.

 

I still reckon, similar to the Scottish referendum, turnout will pale any general election in recent years.

 

Summer, likely to be a warm sunny day with daylight until after 10pm, voting on a subject I suspect the vast majority of people don't give two shits about either way, despite the vocal loud minorities on both sides?

 

It'll be around the AV referendum turnout, I'm guessing.

 

 

I think you seriously underestimate how much the average person cares about having their say on the EU. Postal votes will massively help boost turn-out as well.

[The Mad Hatter 1,092]

 

 

I reckon turnout for the referendum will be somewhere in the high 80s percentage wise. If it's above 83.9% it would beat the 1950 general election turnout to highest UK wide referendum/election turnout (the Scots take the crown of highest turnout in a UK election or referendum at 84.3% last year since figures appear to be available - easily at least - (1918) in England. Although I reckon that's extremely optimistic as the 1975 one garnered only a 65% turnout.

 

I still reckon, similar to the Scottish referendum, turnout will pale any general election in recent years.

 

Summer, likely to be a warm sunny day with daylight until after 10pm, voting on a subject I suspect the vast majority of people don't give two shits about either way, despite the vocal loud minorities on both sides?

 

It'll be around the AV referendum turnout, I'm guessing.

I think you seriously underestimate how much the average person cares about having their say on the EU. Postal votes will massively help boost turn-out as well.

I predict that people will vote in because a vast majority do not understand politics and have no idea what's going on.

[msc 18,477]

 

 

I reckon turnout for the referendum will be somewhere in the high 80s percentage wise. If it's above 83.9% it would beat the 1950 general election turnout to highest UK wide referendum/election turnout (the Scots take the crown of highest turnout in a UK election or referendum at 84.3% last year since figures appear to be available - easily at least - (1918) in England. Although I reckon that's extremely optimistic as the 1975 one garnered only a 65% turnout.

 

I still reckon, similar to the Scottish referendum, turnout will pale any general election in recent years.

 

Summer, likely to be a warm sunny day with daylight until after 10pm, voting on a subject I suspect the vast majority of people don't give two shits about either way, despite the vocal loud minorities on both sides?

 

It'll be around the AV referendum turnout, I'm guessing.

 

 

I think you seriously underestimate how much the average person cares about having their say on the EU. Postal votes will massively help boost turn-out as well.

 

 

I think the internet (and media) overestimates massively how much the average person cares. Still, we'll find out soon enough.

[YoungWillz 21,050]

This is just looking like a re-run of the Scottish Independence referendum. Well I recall Cameron and his ilk invoking the war dead who fought and died for Great Britain and how dare we dishonour, etc, etc. by voting to leave the UK.

 

A couple of points on the more pertinent issue of the EU, from my point of view:

 

* Cameron goes on about our wonderful allies in Europe up to this point. Then he invokes the memory of conflicts with those allies. Could this backfire, whether in or out? I can see many folk whose attitude might be along the lines of "Yeah, back then Britain was great, we ran our armies and we won the war dontch know? We've lost all that by being subservient to Johnny Foreigner!"

 

* At this point I still believe the UK overall will vote to leave. The disparity in the polls still tilts that way as far as I know. Those who are likely to want change and out will be hot-footing it down to vote for sure. Plenty of those who want to remain will be split between those who won't care, those who won't vote because they haven't enough information (leading directly from the short timescale for discussion) and those who will vote. Plus throw in the likely out voters who aren't saying they are voting out in case they are accused of being racists, xenophobes, little Englanders, etc etc. In fact exactly the kind of person who didn't respond to polls saying they were voting Conservative at the last General Election.

 

Cameron cannot come up with an equivalent Vow if the polls swing away from his position. So his only course is to put the fear of god into those who are thinking of sitting at home doing the crossword or filling in internet forums with meaningless rants (ha ha).

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

 

 

 

I reckon turnout for the referendum will be somewhere in the high 80s percentage wise. If it's above 83.9% it would beat the 1950 general election turnout to highest UK wide referendum/election turnout (the Scots take the crown of highest turnout in a UK election or referendum at 84.3% last year since figures appear to be available - easily at least - (1918) in England. Although I reckon that's extremely optimistic as the 1975 one garnered only a 65% turnout.

 

I still reckon, similar to the Scottish referendum, turnout will pale any general election in recent years.

Summer, likely to be a warm sunny day with daylight until after 10pm, voting on a subject I suspect the vast majority of people don't give two shits about either way, despite the vocal loud minorities on both sides?

 

It'll be around the AV referendum turnout, I'm guessing.

I think you seriously underestimate how much the average person cares about having their say on the EU. Postal votes will massively help boost turn-out as well.

I predict that people will realise that I do not understand politics and have no idea what's going on.

 

EFA

[Deathray 2,940]

Isn't there a mountain of studies that show those who aren't sure tend to go for the status quo?

 

My main motivation for voting out was to avoid being dragged into TTIP, but that's a non-starter by the looks of it so I'm less sure.

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

Isn't there a mountain of studies that show those who aren't sure tend to go for the status quo?

 

My main motivation for voting out was to avoid being dragged into TTIP, but that's a non-starter by the looks of it so I'm less sure.

That's true, in general it's harder to get people to make the mental effort necessary to go with change. Issue will be whether those people actually bother to vote at all, hence Cameron's we're all doomed tactics.

[En Passant 3,741]

To be honest, even if I knew nothing else, the fact that Cameron is trying so hard to keep us in is probably enough to push me to vote out .

On one level this really pisses me off, the idea of one europe and eventually one world, is surely an ideal to strive for in most people's minds? But there's so much else going on in all this that has nothing to do with that as an objective it's hard to use it as a voting yardstick.

 

Wanders off to watch Game of Thrones humming, "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony...."

[rockhopper penguin 2,265]

To be honest, even if I knew nothing else, the fact that Cameron is trying so hard to keep us in is probably enough to push me to vote out .

On one level this really pisses me off, the idea of one europe and eventually one world, is surely an ideal to strive for in most people's minds? But there's so much else going on in all this that has nothing to do with that as an objective it's hard to use it as a voting yardstick.

 

Wanders off to watch Game of Thrones humming, "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony...."

Couldn't agree more. More collaboration has to be the right thing, but the EU is Byzantium on speed for bureaucracy junkies. And Cameron is in favour therefore...But a country alone at the mercy of Cameron's evil twin... which way to go!!!!

[time 8,606]

To be honest, even if I knew nothing else, the fact that Cameron is trying so hard to keep us in is probably enough to push me to vote out .

On one level this really pisses me off, the idea of one europe and eventually one world, is surely an ideal to strive for in most people's minds? But there's so much else going on in all this that has nothing to do with that as an objective it's hard to use it as a voting yardstick.

 

Wanders off to watch Game of Thrones humming, "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony...."

With Cameron wanting to stay in and Johnson wanting to come out, I'm tempted to spoil my vote so I don't have to agree with either.

[The Mad Hatter 1,092]

 

 

 

 

I reckon turnout for the referendum will be somewhere in the high 80s percentage wise. If it's above 83.9% it would beat the 1950 general election turnout to highest UK wide referendum/election turnout (the Scots take the crown of highest turnout in a UK election or referendum at 84.3% last year since figures appear to be available - easily at least - (1918) in England. Although I reckon that's extremely optimistic as the 1975 one garnered only a 65% turnout.

 

I still reckon, similar to the Scottish referendum, turnout will pale any general election in recent years.

 

Summer, likely to be a warm sunny day with daylight until after 10pm, voting on a subject I suspect the vast majority of people don't give two shits about either way, despite the vocal loud minorities on both sides?

 

It'll be around the AV referendum turnout, I'm guessing.

I think you seriously underestimate how much the average person cares about having their say on the EU. Postal votes will massively help boost turn-out as well.

I predict that people will realise that I do not understand politics and have no idea what's going on.

EFA

I don't see how predicting that votes will vote for staying in the European Union warrants an insult.

[Scraggy Taters 290]

 

 

 

 

 

I reckon turnout for the referendum will be somewhere in the high 80s percentage wise. If it's above 83.9% it would beat the 1950 general election turnout to highest UK wide referendum/election turnout (the Scots take the crown of highest turnout in a UK election or referendum at 84.3% last year since figures appear to be available - easily at least - (1918) in England. Although I reckon that's extremely optimistic as the 1975 one garnered only a 65% turnout.

 

I still reckon, similar to the Scottish referendum, turnout will pale any general election in recent years.

Summer, likely to be a warm sunny day with daylight until after 10pm, voting on a subject I suspect the vast majority of people don't give two shits about either way, despite the vocal loud minorities on both sides?

 

It'll be around the AV referendum turnout, I'm guessing.

I think you seriously underestimate how much the average person cares about having their say on the EU. Postal votes will massively help boost turn-out as well.

I predict that people will realise that I do not understand politics and have no idea what's going on.

EFA

I don't see how predicting that votes will vote for staying in the European Union warrants an insult.

 

Especially an abbreviated one. FFS.

[Bibliogryphon 9,586]

OK looks like I am in a minority here but I think that the UK is better off being part of the EU are leading it towards a place where it actually functions as it is meant to rather than being an overblown beast that is seen as interfering in everyday lives.

 

Cameron is hopeless. His renegotiation was pathetic he asked for nothing and got slightly less. If Remain win it will be in spite of Cameron not because of Cameron. There is also no way he should have let the Leave ministers stay in post. He is storing up trouble for the future.

 

However I am very concerned that Farage has today stated that if the people get it 'wrong' he will want to ask the question again. No accepting the democratic will of the people here.

 

I am voting in because Britain makes a better Europe, we are leaders not quitters.

[msc 18,477]

The EU referendum is less/more fun for Scots (depending on your point of view) as its basically a re-run of the entire Indy Ref, complete with the exact same points being made. Hilariously in some cases, some of these people (Gove for example) are trying to defend their EU stance against the very statements they made about Scotland in 2014.

[RobertMugabe 437]

You must leave the EU, all these colonial institutions are designed to repress the black man.

[Dr. Zorders 1,271]

Did King Crimson predict the rise of the EU with their song "One More Red Nightmare"?

[Lard Bazaar 3,799]

I know nothing about politics. So tonight I've looked at the Internet for some good, clear information about the pros and cons, what will ACTUALLY happen either way in terms of finances and changes to laws and human rights and immigration and all that, and how it will actually affect ME. And I can't find anything that explains it in thicko terms so I'm none the wiser.

[En Passant 3,741]

It's nothing to do with your intelligence Lardy, or any of us. It's the fact that they obfuscate the truth to serve their own ends. If you're not on the inside you have no chance.

 

I posted in here weeks ago that I'd like the issues laid before me in an intelligible format so that I could make something approaching an informed choice. Despite living in an age where the information has theoretically never been more readily available to the common voter, I'm barely any the wiser now than I was then. In some ways it's actually got worse, because the closer we get to the date, the more they are ramping up the fear factor without actually doing one jot of explanation. So much so in fact that Nicola Sturgeon who is in favour of remaining has pointed out that they are overdoing it.

 

It's not you. But you knew that.

[Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,218]

I know nothing about politics. So tonight I've looked at the Internet for some good, clear information about the pros and cons, what will ACTUALLY happen either way in terms of finances and changes to laws and human rights and immigration and all that, and how it will actually affect ME. And I can't find anything that explains it in thicko terms so I'm none the wiser.

Old people will still die and need burying.

As you were.

[Lard Bazaar 3,799]

 

 

I know nothing about politics. So tonight I've looked at the Internet for some good, clear information about the pros and cons, what will ACTUALLY happen either way in terms of finances and changes to laws and human rights and immigration and all that, and how it will actually affect ME. And I can't find anything that explains it in thicko terms so I'm none the wiser.

Old people will still die and need burying.

As you were.

I don't bury them. I lawfully deprive them of their liberty as per Articles 5 and 8 of the Human Rights Act, so it may affect my job. But I'm not too bothered about that. I want to know what each option will actually mean for ME. But I'm too upset about Bert Kwouk to think much about it right now 😄

[YoungWillz 21,050]

Problem with this vote is that many "pros" as seen by one side are "cons" for the other, so there is never a right answer. Only a right one for each voter. I could go through the whole arguments detailing these out - I'm still undecided - but a huge boring post which doesn't address specific issues for each person might not be worth it. So I'll take one non-specific issue and show how it depends on your point of view how you might feel about that, possibly in a smaller but no less boring post!

 

Sovereignty.

 

This is something the pro-EU side have discussed less than pro-Brexit. This is the right of a national Parliament to pass laws, proposed by the Government, and for those laws to be enforced by the national Courts. There is a series of checks and balances - the Government cannot pass laws, they have to be approved by Parliament and even then the laws may be interpreted by the national Courts in a way which the Government or even Parliament might not like.

 

By joining the EU, we have given away the absolute right to make laws and decide them in our own Courts, but only on some specific issues which are to underpin the more general treaty rights: these include harmonisation of standards in consumer items, and employment rights for example, so that no country gains an unfair advantage over another. Such laws are proposed by unelected Commissioners, one each appointed by each country, revised and passed by the EU Parliament (which is elected in the EU elections in each country) and interpreted by national courts but which can ultimately be decided upon by the EU Court who can override decisions of our own courts.

 

The Brexit side say we should step out of this and decide our own laws and have our own courts have the ultimate say. Internally within the UK and externally with the rest of the world outside the EU, we could have sole say in the standards of goods and services and what workers' rights should be as we did prior to joining the EU. As a big economy, we would be better placed to negotiate a good deal in new agreements with the EU.

 

Against this, the pro-EU side would say that in relation to goods and services in trade deals with the EU, we would still have to comply with all EU law, possibly but not certainly accepting free movement of labour. We would have no say in the rules set down by the EU to maintain such deals. By staying in, we at least have some say in those rules and can negotiate opt outs as rules are made.

 

I'd add my own thoughts on the cons of each side in relation to the above.

 

On the Brexit side, the cons seem to me to be (1) the UK Parliament actually takes a very long time to get round to making new laws; (2) an unfettered Government with a large majority could push through restrictive laws on its own labour market (for example, it might remove the right to a paid holiday); (3) our Courts would be pushed into a two tier standard of interpretation of laws for the UK's own people and those of EU citizens living here.

 

On the Remain side: (1) there is a lack of accountability in the EU proposing laws by unelected Commissioners; (2) we have given up a veto in favour of opt outs (such as on the Euro) which are by no means certain to continue and might be struck down at any time by the EU Court; (3) the EU has become a movement towards ever closer political union, thus in the future we could be forced to give up more and more of our law-making powers if we remain.

 

This isn't meant to be exhaustive and by no means tries to address a personal concern, but it shows how one aspect has what are seen as benefits on one side are not for the other side. It's also probably the driest aspect of the referendum, so sorry about that.

[Phantom 2,533]

Got my ballot papers in the post earlier today. Haven't made my mind up yet. The way I see it, it shouldn't be how will it benefit me directly but what are the implications (if any) for future years or even generations.

[Paul Bearer 6,102]

Haven't made my mind up yet. The way I see it, it shouldn't be how will it benefit me directly but what are the implications (if any) for future years or even generations.

My thoughts exactly.

[Rotten Ali 600]

 

 

I know nothing about politics. So tonight I've looked at the Internet for some good, clear information about the pros and cons, what will ACTUALLY happen either way in terms of finances and changes to laws and human rights and immigration and all that, and how it will actually affect ME. And I can't find anything that explains it in thicko terms so I'm none the wiser.

Old people will still die and need burying.

As you were.

I don't bury them. I lawfully deprive them of their liberty as per Articles 5 and 8 of the Human Rights Act, so it may affect my job. But I'm not too bothered about that. I want to know what each option will actually mean for ME. But I'm too upset about Bert Kwouk to think much about it right now

Option 1. Sit on your backside with the rest of the "I can't work it out" crowd and do nothing. The people who want a say, go to the polls and there is about 70% support for vote leave. The EU secretly won't accept that and tell everyone the result was 53% win for remain. Most people believe the lie and life carries on as per usual. Except the Euro currency slides when Greece defaults and we send them £100 billion to prop-up the Euro to stop Spain, Italy and Portugal going into default as well. Greece is in the dog house for the next 50 years and getting a low priced holiday there is more easy to find. However because we are semi bankrupted too, we can only afford that holiday if you go and do a few dozen car boot sales. By the way you won't have to change currencies because we too will be using the euro by the year 2025 (at the latest).

 

Option 2. Go and vote leave. The turn out will be high and about 75% of the vote will go to Leave. The EU secretly won't accept that and tell everyone the result was 53% win for remain. Most people don't believe the lie, a few riots are started then and life carries on as per usual after two days of unrest. The Euro currency slides when Greece defaults and we send them £100 billion to prop-up the Euro to stop Spain, Italy and Portugal going into default as well. Greece is in the dog house for the next 50 years and getting a low priced holiday there is more easy to find. However because we are semi bankrupted too, we can only afford that holiday if you go and do a few dozen car boot sales. By the way you won't have to change currencies because we too will be using the euro by the year 2025 (at the latest).

 

Option 3. For some strange reason you go to the polling station and think about kittens and soft cuddly toys. The birds are singing and the sun shining. You think what the hell, it's not so bad, I'll vote remain. Too many other people do this too, and the Remain In vote receives 45% support. The EU secretly won't accept that and tell everyone the result was 53% win for remain. Most people believe the lie and life carries on as per usual. Except the Euro currency slides when Greece defaults and we send them £100 billion to prop-up the Euro to stop Spain, Italy and Portugal going into default as well. Greece is in the dog house for the next 50 years and getting a low priced holiday there is more easy to find. However because we are semi bankrupted too, we can only afford that holiday if you go and do a few dozen car boot sales. By the way you won't have to change currencies because we too will be using the euro by the year 2025 (at the latest).

 

Easy

 

P.S. Then when you go to the polling station take a permanent black marker felt tip pen with you. Remember to vote leave, it's the bottom box. Don't use the stubby pencil, "they" have pencil erasers. On the sly, photograph your marked ballot paper with your smart phone, then fold it and place it in the ballot box.

 

Oh, and watch this short (3 minute 20 seconds) film now.