Derby Dead Pool 2018

[drol 11,922]

Anna Campori for the List of the Missed. Picked last year.

 

I think Nolan, Clegg, Lima, Tapie and maybe Goldberg will survive. Heine will be a surprise. My biggest fault was perhaps not picking Vanessa Goodwin instead of Nolan or not promoting Nobby Stiles and Fernando Ricksen to the main team. Anyway I could not risk missing Lima, so young and drop-40-ish, and I was forced to have some tough choices. Only very bad pick is Nolan, I'd swap her with Goodwin immediately if I could travel back in time.

[msc 18,437]

18 minutes ago, Joey Russ said:

Also, one team had Mary Lucas, who is a definite list of the poster at this point...

 

"List of the poster" - not another thread!

[Joey Russ 7,220]

Talking about what I think of drol's picks did make me think about my own surviving picks. So here's an update:

Leah Bracknell - The video and her public appearance shows it all. She's looking more and more frail, so she'll probably die. I'm still guessing early March with her, ala Simon and Crowe. 95%

Matt Cappotelli - When I originally posted about my major gut feeling for 2019 pick would be my joker for the B Team, it was actually him, not Newton-John. But there were two reasons why I moved him onto the main team at last minute. First, I wanted to get rid of the final FFBI that was still on my line up so I can have a team filled with people with some claim to fame (Sara Chivers to be more specific). But more importantly, I felt like that not having him and falling behind would be a bigger risk than him surviving the year. Still, glioblastoma is very dangerous (and I don't believe he'll live to five years at all). 75%

John Cocks - Nothing has changed with him. We probably won't hear any news with him till his death, and even then he might not obit. But I believe he's a cert to die. 80%

Jacqui Forster - Well, her health has deteriorated as of an update very recently, so I think she'll probably die this year. But it's the obit that is the true gamble. I could see her not getting an obit, but, as I have realized with Derek Dudley, the UK are really a lot bigger on football than I had realized. 70%

Dean Francis - Could see 2019, but more likely won't since there was a period that he went through bullshit alternatives. 85%

Stuart Fraser - Lung cancer is a bastard, but we haven't heard anything from him since the benefit concert. Don't know if that means he got better, but he may not even obit at this point. 60%

Greg Gilbert - Well, a lot of the stuff he's currently doing are some of the red flags I recognize when I research on people. The lung lesions that are growing makes me think he's sooner rather than later. 95%

Vanessa Goodwin - Another one that might not obit, but considering her position before she resigned, I think she at least a decent chance of her obitting. 85%

Clive James - His most recent article seemed like a reflection on his life. I think he has finally come to an acceptance with his cancer battle. 80%

Tessa Jowell - Struggling with her words during a parliament session. Closer to weeks rather than months. 99%

John McCain - He still hasn't returned to the senate despite reports of him improving. I actually don't think he's well at all, and that the senate return is more of a hope rather than an expectation. 95%

Liam Miller - Says he's not well at all after denying death rumors. Likely another major fatality of pancreatic cancer. 90%

Linda Nolan - Like drol, if there was one person I would replace in hindsight, it's her. Cancer hasn't spread to her vital organs yet, and while it isn't impossible for it to spread, it's still unlikely imo. 20%

Fernando Ricksen - If I was just focusing on Joost's timeline for ALS, I wouldn't have chosen him. However, the most recents articles give me a very ominous vibe, which makes me think it's sooner rather than later. Still, he may last another year. 75%

Stefan Karl Stefansson - His cancer is very aggressive,  and while he very likely won't die tomorrow, when it does eventually return (and I think it will later this year) it'll finish him off. Still, it's a waiting game of when. 70%

Morgan Tsvangirai - Constantly denying rumors of poor health, but I think it's more to protect privacy rather than to deny something that isn't true. 80%

Marieke Vervoort - She wants to see her mother's birthday in February. However, it is clear that she has been suffering a lot, and while it's not as early as we think, she'll probably be euthanized around March/April. 99%

[Dr_T 254]

Thanks to everyone who cleared up the unwritten rule about why Jessica Falkholt doesn't qualify for the Unnatural Death Bonus.  Using some of the same logic (it is to reward the player for picking someone who passes from something sudden and unexpected) then surely the same must apply for Marieke Vervoort should she elect to be euthanized.  Euthanasia is borderline anyway as being unnatural (depending on the circumstances/point of view) and Ms Vervoort has flagged for some time her intention to end things on her terms, so perhaps the bonus is inappropriate?

[Joey Russ 7,220]

Vervoort is a little different from Falkholt. The rule states that if the unnatural event occurs within the year, then the bonus would be given. So if she gets euthanized this year, it could logically give her points since it's still unnatural and it occurs in the same year. That said, I don't honestly expect her to get unnatural points since she's letting everyone know that she is going to be euthanized...

[Sean 6,311]

1 minute ago, Joey Russ said:

Vervoort is a little different from Falkholt. The rule states that if the unnatural event occurs within the year, then the bonus would be given. So if she gets euthanized this year, it could logically give her points since it's still unnatural and it occurs in the same year. That said, I don't honestly expect her to get unnatural points since she's letting everyone know that she is going to be euthanized...

Euthanasia is an unnatural death.

[Death Impends 7,956]

I feel euthanasia shouldn't count for unnatural points in the same way executions don't (although someone has to be sentenced and executed in the same year to get points to begin with!), with that sense of being a "legal" death even if the means are technically unnatural.

 

I'll admit the unnatural bonus wasn't even on my mind when I jokered Vervoort; I just figured she'd make the Drop 40 and be more certain to go than any other 13 pointer!

[Dr_T 254]

Unless there is an extra page of rules that I don't know about it, the rule about the "unnatural event" occurring in the same year as the death is unwritten.  However there is ample precedent and so I have no problem with it not applying to Falkholt. 

 

From the DDP page:

 

 Unnatural causes: +3 for murder, suicide or accident (but not State executions).

 

I think it could be argued very strongly that under Belgian law that none of these would apply to Ms Vervoort's death should it come by euthanasia.

 

Personally I have a very liberal view of euthanasia and thus do not consider it as unnatural.  Has there been a precedent set for the bonus being awarded to someone who has been euthanized?   This 3 (6) points could be decisive come December.

[Toast 16,129]

If suicide counts as an unnatural death, then why should euthanasia be ruled out?  It is still suicide, albeit assisted.

[Death Impends 7,956]

4 minutes ago, Dr_T said:

Personally I have a very liberal view of euthanasia and thus do not consider it as unnatural.  Has there been a precedent set for the bonus being awarded to someone who has been euthanized?   This 3 (6) points could be decisive come December.

 

I don't think there's been a euthanasia hit to begin with on the DDP? So whatever is decided on Vervoort would end up the precedent setter.

[Dr_T 254]

@Toast

I think there is a world of difference between a physically healthy person killing themselves and euthanasia.  If nothing else then having the bonus apply to suicide means that we don't need to wait for the outcome of coroner's reports before allocating points for accidents and drug overdoses (and what would we do with open findings?).

 

For the most part, euthanasia just allows people suffering awful diseases the chance to say goodbye while they are still mentally and physically capable of meaningful interaction.  It is the disease that kills them not the drugs or the person administering the drugs. 

 

I think there are a lot of grey areas in the Unnatural Bonus and it is a bit of fun to argue them occasionally.  If someone was to have a non-fatal stroke which made them fall over on the street and get run over by a car....is that unnatural?  I would say it was the stroke that killed them, others would say the car.  Either way I would be happy for the points to be awarded or not awarded. I think there was a case a couple of years ago where the bonus was applied for someone who hit their head on the ground after an aneurysm or some such.  That one I found surprising.

 

However, in the case of euthanasia, in an authority where euthanasia is legal I don't think awarding the bonus is either within the wording of the rule (not an accident/murder/suicide) or the spirit of the rule.  If it occurs where euthanasia is not legal then it may then be within the wording of the rule (i.e. it is then a murder/manslaughter or suicide) but still outside the spirit of the law. 

[Dr_T 254]

@Death Impends

I commend you on your view considering that it is against your interests as a competitor. 

[YoungWillz 21,026]

Round Up #2 (Spade Cooley - The Emperor Strikes Back Special)

 

Mort Walker: Daily Mail Obit: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-5320823/Beetle-Bailey-cartoonist-Mort-Walker-dies-94.html

 

Claribel Alegria: Awaiting Obit.

 

Ingvar Kamprad: BBC Obit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42851668

 

Ed Doolan: Daily Mail Obit: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5274807/Veteran-BBC-broadcaster-Ed-Doolan-dies-aged-76.html

 

Mary Lucas: Awaiting Obit.

 

J Aelwyn Roberts: Awaiting Obit.

 

WPC Davies: Awaiting Obit.

 

David Fisher: Awaiting Obit.

 

Graeme Langlands: Guardian Obit: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jan/21/rugby-league-immortal-graeme-langlands-dies-aged-76

 

Diane Bishop: Awaiting Obit.

 

Sara Chivers: Daily Mail Obit: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5324709/Sara-Chivers-dies-terminal-brain-tumours.html

 

Paul Alcock: BBC Obit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42871581

 

Francisco Nunez Olivera: The Sun Obit: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5456943/francisco-nunez-olivera-worlds-oldest-man-dead/

 

Mark Salling: Daily Mail Obit:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5331317/Mark-Salling-dead-apparent-suicide.html

 

Hannah Hauxwell: Daily Express Obit: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/912877/Hannah-Hauxwell-Yorkshire-farmer-TV-pennines-dies

 

Ann Gillis: Awaiting Obit.

 

Dennis Edwards: Mirror Obit: https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/dennis-edwards-dead-temptations-lead-11960634

 

Barys Kit: Awaiting Obit.

[Youth in Asia 1,086]

WPC Davies: Awaiting Obit.

 

Indeed. I have to hope the odds of a former England international and Lions player getting an obit are pretty high.

[CharonsCrew 23]

8 hours ago, Dr_T said:

@Toast

I think there is a world of difference between a physically healthy person killing themselves and euthanasia.  If nothing else then having the bonus apply to suicide means that we don't need to wait for the outcome of coroner's reports before allocating points for accidents and drug overdoses (and what would we do with open findings?).

 

For the most part, euthanasia just allows people suffering awful diseases the chance to say goodbye while they are still mentally and physically capable of meaningful interaction.  It is the disease that kills them not the drugs or the person administering the drugs. 

 

I think there are a lot of grey areas in the Unnatural Bonus and it is a bit of fun to argue them occasionally.  If someone was to have a non-fatal stroke which made them fall over on the street and get run over by a car....is that unnatural?  I would say it was the stroke that killed them, others would say the car.  Either way I would be happy for the points to be awarded or not awarded. I think there was a case a couple of years ago where the bonus was applied for someone who hit their head on the ground after an aneurysm or some such.  That one I found surprising.

 

However, in the case of euthanasia, in an authority where euthanasia is legal I don't think awarding the bonus is either within the wording of the rule (not an accident/murder/suicide) or the spirit of the rule.  If it occurs where euthanasia is not legal then it may then be within the wording of the rule (i.e. it is then a murder/manslaughter or suicide) but still outside the spirit of the law. 

 

I'm still pretty new here, but here's my opinion for what it's worth. Not sure re the euthanasia, (you make some excellent points), but personally, I'd have thought in the case of open findings, the bonus doesn't apply. If there's any doubt, no bonus. Likewise when Ms Vervoort dies, the unnatural bonus should only be given if information is released that it was indeed euthanasia. She is, after all, extremely ill, and it's not that far fetched that she may meet a natural end, as did Sir Terry Pratchett despite his advocacy of the right to die.

I'll hold up my hands here and state outright that I don't have Ms Vervoort on my team, though I wish I did. I'm honestly looking at this fairly though, and would be saying the same if I did have her. I had Jessica Falkholt, and completely agree with the decision not to award unnatural death points in that case.

As far as the stroke and the car accident, I think it would hinge on the cause of death. If the coroner determined it was the stroke, no bonus, if the car, give the bonus. If it's unclear for any reason, then you don't get the bonus.

 

[Grim Up North 3,725]

On 1/2/2018 at 09:41, Grim Up North said:

So my first team ever in the DDP as follows. I have realised since submitting that not making Marieke Vervoort my joker might have been a beginner's mistake but I am unsure if assisted dying is classed as murder (I don't think so) or suicide (I don't think so) but probably still an unnatural cause so that's going to mean I've thrown away 6 points.

 

 

Ah the conversation I was looking for on 2nd January has finally happened 

 

It's lucky dead pooling is just for fun so we can all just accept whatever Spade decides with good grace because otherwise this could be going through the law courts for years! 

[CharonsCrew 23]

4 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

 

Ah the conversation I was looking for on 2nd January has finally happened 

 

It's lucky dead pooling is just for fun so we can all just accept whatever Spade decides with good grace because otherwise this could be going through the law courts for years! 

 

True that! If this was a democracy, we'd be sunk. All hail the Glorious Leader, whose final word on this shall be Law....

[RadGuy 1,614]

Another hit was Graeme Langlands on January 20th. He got Guardian and Mail obits.

[Death Impends 7,956]

Diane Bishop is another LotLer for the above round up.

[Deathray 2,940]

2 hours ago, Death Impends said:

Diane Bishop is another LotLer for the above round up.

 

Who gives a fuck? Who gives a fuck?

 

You're  a fucking cunt!

[Death Impends 7,956]

Thank you for the compliment.

[Sean 6,311]

Disappointed to have slipped down the scoreboard but many of my picks such as Miller Capotelli McCain Tsvangirai Vervoot Lima Conway Ricksen Francis Gilbert Frates and Stefannson still have huge potential.

[Grim Up North 3,725]

9 minutes ago, Sean said:

Disappointed to have slipped down the scoreboard

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha - it's 29th January!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm not saying I've got them in my team but you win this game by not having the ones who are alive at the end of the year, not by the ones that die in January.

[Joey Russ 7,220]

Just now, Grim Up North said:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha - it's 29th January!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm not saying I've got them in my team but you win this game by not having the ones who are alive at the end of the year, not by the ones that die in January.

But if they die and don't obit, that won't do you no good either...

[Sean 6,311]

I can't see any of my picks not obiting.