jonnythegamemaster 40 Posted June 28 18 minutes ago, jcc said: Last night was a shit show but looks more like his old (no pun intended) today https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/28/biden-north-carolina-defiant-after-disastrous-debate/74247028007/&ved=2ahUKEwirssazlP-GAxWpTDABHVS-C-QQr_oDKAB6BAgREAE&usg=AOvVaw2x25jL27wrcPQuJa9ABH4m That is a completely different man from last night Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,639 Posted June 28 2 hours ago, Sly Ronnie said: Why did they have this debate so early anyway? It's months from Polling Day. Biden wanted it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livingbygrace 314 Posted June 28 5 hours ago, theoldlady said: I always wonder what would have happened if Hillary did not ruin Bernie Sanders chance to be the democratic candidate in 2016. Bernie would most likely had won against Trump. The USA would be a different place. A poll named five potential alternatives - the first two of which have been garnering media attention since the debate ended: California governor Gavin Newsom Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer US senator Cory Booker Maryland governor Wes Moore Biden adviser Mitch Landrieu God help us if Whitmer would be president. Our VP would be a better choice 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrWonderful 480 Posted June 28 I didn't think Trump could win, and you can check my post history on that as to why. (I'm a moderate Democrat, for the record.) Well, after last night, we may have seen irreparable damage. It matters not that Trump was doing his usual lying-his-ass-off routine. It matters not that even some of my liberal friends are trying to make the argument that nothing changes as far as substantive discussion and policy. Um, they don't have to convince people like me to vote for Biden. They have to convince undecided morons in swing states, and this is about optics and perception. And they have made this intellectually dishonest argument that "oh, well incumbent presidents like Obama and GW Bush had off nights in their first debate, and they still won." Uh, those presidents didn't have this question dogging them: is he too old to do the job? This has been THE #1 issue for undecided voters as it relates to concerns about Biden, much more so than policy. Numero uno. So to look and sound like he did last night? I don't know how you come back from that, and I'm not one of those people just reacting to media-driven angst, either. It was a disaster, purely and simply, for the Democrats. And the "he had a bad cold" excuse insults my intelligence because he looked just fine less than 20 hours later. Seems like in a controlled environment where he can do his speech from the teleprompter, he looks much more "normal" (similar to the SOTU), but when he was asked questions and had to think about answers, well, we saw what we saw. I mean, I understand why they have to try anything to spin it to the general public, but I've had some liberals I know try to spin it to me in this exact same way, and I don't much care for that. Trump is so awful and has so much baggage that maybe, just maybe there's still enough to change the race, but Trump has now become the considerable favorite imo. Fuck me. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sly Ronnie 878 Posted June 28 29 minutes ago, maryportfuncity said: Biden wanted it! He's bloody senile then! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sodoffbaldrick 36 Posted June 28 Well if Biden is the best the Democrats have got and the alternative is Trump. I just want to say that it was nice living in the free world while it lasted. My condolences to the Americans. Canada will hold out against the the dictator as long as possible, despite our governments resistance to funding our military. May God have mercy on the souls of those who refuse to replace Biden in the race and on those who actually believe that Trump is the right person to lead the U.S. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brad252 806 Posted June 28 31 minutes ago, sodoffbaldrick said: Well if Biden is the best the Democrats have got and the alternative is Trump. I just want to say that it was nice living in the free world while it lasted. My condolences to the Americans. Canada will hold out against the the dictator as long as possible, despite our governments resistance to funding our military. May God have mercy on the souls of those who refuse to replace Biden in the race and on those who actually believe that Trump is the right person to lead the U.S. Ironically I do think Trump returning will lead the US towards the reforms it so badly needs, but only after effectively destroying it all in, to quote An Inspector Calls, "Fire, blood and anguish!", such that everything has to be rebuilt from scratch, maybe even literally. The other problem of course is when the "US sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold", were there no major global consequences I and I imagine many others wouldn't give a toss who is in charge across the pond. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Old Crem 3,581 Posted June 28 New York Times calls for Biden to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toast 16,129 Posted June 28 https://x.com/i/status/1806732213137911810 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimbean1121 238 Posted June 28 35 minutes ago, The Old Crem said: New York Times calls for Biden to go. and yet never called for the guy found guilty of 34 felonies to go 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcc 228 Posted June 29 9 hours ago, theoldlady said: I always wonder what would have happened if Hillary did not ruin Bernie Sanders chance to be the democratic candidate in 2016. Bernie would most likely had won against Trump. The USA would be a different place. A poll named five potential alternatives - the first two of which have been garnering media attention since the debate ended: California governor Gavin Newsom Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer US senator Cory Booker Maryland governor Wes Moore Biden adviser Mitch Landrieu 9 hours ago, theoldlady said: I always wonder what would have happened if Hillary did not ruin Bernie Sanders chance to be the democratic candidate in 2016. Bernie would most likely had won against Trump. The USA would be a different place. A poll named five potential alternatives - the first two of which have been garnering media attention since the debate ended: California governor Gavin Newsom Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer US senator Cory Booker Maryland governor Wes Moore Biden adviser 9 hours ago, theoldlady said: I always wonder what would have happened if Hillary did not ruin Bernie Sanders chance to be the democratic candidate in 2016. Bernie would most likely had won against Trump. The USA would be a different place. A poll named five potential alternatives - the first two of which have been garnering media attention since the debate ended: California governor Gavin Newsom Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer US senator Cory Booker Maryland governor Wes Moore Biden adviser Mitch Landrieu I would add Pete Buttigieg to that list. The USA may be ready for their first gay president in 4 to 8 years. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,639 Posted June 29 As always, Britain's best journalists naile it: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Comped 525 Posted June 29 12 hours ago, jcc said: I would add Pete Buttigieg to that list. The USA may be ready for their first gay president in 4 to 8 years. My biggest issue with him, as well as Landrieu, is that being mayor of a regional US city at best, and then being kicked into a federal position for party reasons, does not a president make. Give either of them a couple of terms in the senate or as governor, and then we can talk. Pete's sexuality but almost certainly cause him to lose a good number of states right off the bat, and the growing number of Hispanic conservatives certainly wouldn't help much in states that he and Biden must win. Even African American conservatives would likely not do him any favors, even if they're primarily in states where he wasn't going to win anyway. I'm just waiting for Trump to announce his VP, because that could be the real nail in the coffin. Tim Scott has been someone I've been hoping for a while, and would counteract Harris demographically speaking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcreptile 10,963 Posted July 2 Things are happening... it seems possible to me that he drops out next weekend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,639 Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, gcreptile said: Things are happening... it seems possible to me that he drops out next weekend. You think he'll live that long, we'll see! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean 6,311 Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, gcreptile said: Things are happening... it seems possible to me that he drops out next weekend. Only one congressmen has asked him to step down so far? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcreptile 10,963 Posted July 2 3 minutes ago, Sean said: Only one congressmen has asked him to step down so far? Nancy Pelosi seemed open to having an argument. James Clyburn is moving to secure the space for Kamala Harris. It's very insider-y, but something is going on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sean 6,311 Posted July 2 Just now, gcreptile said: Nancy Pelosi seemed open to having an argument. James Clyburn is moving to secure the space for Kamala Harris. It's very insider-y, but something is going on. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/joe-biden-debate-performance-carl-bernstein-b2572899.html Found this too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sly Ronnie 878 Posted July 2 If Biden was to stand down, how will the Democratic Convention elect a new candidate? All the caucuses and primaries have been done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcreptile 10,963 Posted July 2 1 minute ago, Sly Ronnie said: If Biden was to stand down, how will the Democratic Convention elect a new candidate? All the caucuses and primaries have been done. It's not unusual for a candidate to release their delegates to vote for whomever they want, or whomever the defeated candidate endorses. Didn't Bernie's delegates even swing their support to Hillary at some point? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maryportfuncity 10,639 Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, Sly Ronnie said: If Biden was to stand down, how will the Democratic Convention elect a new candidate? All the caucuses and primaries have been done. They'd do what they did in 1968 when their original candidate had been shot dead a few weeks earlier - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dying Probably 578 Posted July 2 1 minute ago, Sly Ronnie said: If Biden was to stand down, how will the Democratic Convention elect a new candidate? All the caucuses and primaries have been done. Simple: just vote for one. Delegates being "pledged" is about as certain as electors. DNC rules say that any delegate can vote for a different candidate. Back in Iowa 2020, 6 delegates were pledged to Biden, but as he became the clear nominee, that changed to (at least) 14. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dying Probably 578 Posted July 2 For what it's worth, the conversation has VERY much changed from "if, and that's a big if, Biden drops out, who's the candidate" to "who is Kamala's VP". (answer: name a politician who isn't Biden or Harris themselves, sure) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcreptile 10,963 Posted July 2 I think this is actually forcing Democrats to actually think "who can win" instead of "who do we like best". Trump will drive up turnout for and against him. Dems need someone who can convince enough independents/centrists. So it does not need to be a darling of the base - except that Harris needs to stay on the ticket. So the other person best be a moderate, white, young-ish man, preferably a governor as opposed to Harris's legislative experience. Josh Shapiro, or Andy Beshear. Bonus points for Shapiro for being from a must-win state. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
