Kill or Save: UK No.1-hits of the 80s

[BuffaloPhil 916]

1 hour ago, Youth in Asia said:

Come on Eileen is the human league of this round. It was the best selling single of the year ffs. The general public don't get it wrong.

 

The biggest selling single of 1988 was Mistletoe and Wine by Cliff Richard. Your premise is seriously flawed.

[justonecornetto 944]

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Madness – House of fun

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

25 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl 

25 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart 

23 The Jam – A town called Malice +3

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

21 Survivor – Eye of the tiger 

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance +1

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy 

21 Irene Cara – Fame

20 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies 

20 Nicole – A little peace 

20 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes 

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me 

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

20 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love 

20 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane 

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 Flying Pickets – Only you

16 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

15 Renee & Renato – Save your love

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

14 New Edition – Candy Girl 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

13 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

 1 Tight Fit —The lion sleeps tonight -6

[Sir Creep 7,069]

1 hour ago, Grim Up North said:

 

12 Michael Jackson – Billie Jean +4

8 Tight Fit – The lion sleeps tonight -6

 

It's pretty hard to save a song by a dead probable paedo but…

 

I should hope that no one puts that fact into consideration at all.  If they do they’re doing it wrong.  We’re to vote on the music.  Billy Jean was an iconic song in every way: musically, popularity, videography, choreography.  Doesn’t mean it should advance but to consider all that and say ‘aye but he was a peado’ is repugnant to the task at hand. 

SC

[and who doesn’t like the juxtaposition of Michael Jackson and Tight Fit?]

[TQR 14,364]

You can definitely separate the art from the artist…a lot of the time.

[Grim Up North 3,718]

2 hours ago, RIP Wee Jum said:

I thought I was going to struggle who to give minus points to as there is no shitty Blondie. But there is alleged paedophile Michael Jackson to give minus points to 

 

2 hours ago, RIP Wee Jum said:

 

08 Michael Jackson – Billie Jean  -6

 

 

But everyone has a vote and they can cast it for whatever reason they want - that is what democracy is all about - it doesn't always make sense (and is why I've been dealing with a multitude of business issues caused by Brexit since 2019 - still awaiting all the opportunities as it seems are the NHS).

[msc 18,397]

19 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

 

 

 

But everyone has a vote and they can cast it for whatever reason they want - that is what democracy is all about - it doesn't always make sense (and is why I've been dealing with a multitude of business issues caused by Brexit since 2019 - still awaiting all the opportunities as it seems are the NHS).

 

I'm just glad Rolf Harris never had a riff as catchy as Billie Jean. 

[Great Uncle Bulgaria 1,277]

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Madness – House of fun

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

25 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl 

25 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart 

25 The Jam – A town called Malice +2

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

21 Survivor – Eye of the tiger 

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance +1

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy 

21 Irene Cara – Fame

21 The Jam – Beat Surrender +1

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes +1

20 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies 

20 Nicole – A little peace 

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me 

20 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love 

20 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane 

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 Flying Pickets – Only you

16 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

15 Renee & Renato – Save your love

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 New Edition – Candy Girl 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

13 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears -6

 1 Tight Fit —The lion sleeps tonight 

 

This selection seems overall much worse than the last lot. Not too much dreadful stuff, but a surfeit of the very average. Seven Tears comfortably in the former category though.

[wannamaker 1,395]

6 minutes ago, msc said:

 

I'm just glad Rolf Harris never had a riff as catchy as Billie Jean. 

 

Not the riff, but I got the chorus of "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport" in my head constantly....

[CaptainChorizo 1,971]

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Madness – House of fun

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

25 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart 

25 The Jam – A town called Malice

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy 

21 Irene Cara – Fame

21 The Jam – Beat Surrender

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl  -4

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

20 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies 

20 Nicole – A little peace 

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me 

20 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love 

20 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane 

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 Flying Pickets – Only you

19 Survivor – Eye of the tiger -2

18 New Edition – Candy Girl +4

16 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

15 Renee & Renato – Save your love

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

13 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

 1 Tight Fit —The lion sleeps tonight 

 

[Toast 16,075]

2 hours ago, Sir Creep said:

I should hope that no one puts that fact into consideration at all.  If they do they’re doing it wrong.  We’re to vote on the music.  Billy Jean was an iconic song in every way: musically, popularity, videography, choreography.  Doesn’t mean it should advance but to consider all that and say ‘aye but he was a peado’ is repugnant to the task at hand.

 

I never liked Michael Jackson's music (although I do like some of The Jacksons stuff).  I find Billie Jean a very unpleasant song. 

[Bibliogryphon 9,519]

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Madness – House of fun

27 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart +2

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

25 The Jam – A town called Malice

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love +2

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy 

21 Irene Cara – Fame

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

20 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies 

20 Nicole – A little peace 

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me 

20 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane 

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 Flying Pickets – Only you

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender -1

19 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

16 New Edition – Candy Girl -2

16 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

13 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

12 Renee & Renato – Save your love -3

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

 1 Tight Fit —The lion sleeps tonight 

[YorkshireBanker 168]

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Madness – House of fun

27 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

25 The Jam – A town called Malice

24 Flying Pickets – Only you +4

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy 

21 Irene Cara – Fame

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

20 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies 

20 Nicole – A little peace 

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

19 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

16 New Edition – Candy Girl

16 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane -6

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

13 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

12 Renee & Renato – Save your love

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

 1 Tight Fit —The lion sleeps tonight 

[Toast 16,075]

Is ths your first contribution to the forum, @mymango ?  Facepalming one of my posts? 

 

[Bibliogryphon 9,519]

2 hours ago, Toast said:

 

I never liked Michael Jackson's music (although I do like some of The Jacksons stuff).  I find Billie Jean a very unpleasant song. 

 

I think Billie Jean is probably the best of Jackson's output from this era. It is on my reserve list in case any of my top five fall but it looks like it might be gone by then

[Death Impends 7,943]

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Madness – House of fun

28 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart +1

28 The Jam – A town called Malice +3

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy 

21 Irene Cara – Fame

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

20 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies 

20 Nicole – A little peace 

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

19 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

16 New Edition – Candy Girl

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

13 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

12 Renee & Renato – Save your love

10 Charlene – I´ve never been to me -6

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

 1 Tight Fit —The lion sleeps tonight

[ladyfiona 2,561]

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

29 The Jam – A town called Malice +1

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Madness – House of fun

28 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

23 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe +1

23 Irene Cara – Fame +2

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

20 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

19 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

18 Nicole – A little peace -2

16 New Edition – Candy Girl

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

13 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

10 Renee & Renato – Save your love -2

8 Charlene – I´ve never been to me -2

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

 1 Tight Fit —The lion sleeps tonight

[TQR 14,364]

32 Madness – House of fun +4

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

29 The Jam – A town called Malice

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

23 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

23 Irene Cara – Fame

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

20 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

19 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

18 Nicole – A little peace -2

16 New Edition – Candy Girl

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

10 Renee & Renato – Save your love

8 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

8 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen -5

 

0 Tight Fit —The lion died tonight -1

[ladyfiona 2,561]

3 minutes ago, TQR said:

…mine next. You are third in the queue.

 

Edit - Actualluy ignore me I am too tired. I am dumb. Doh.

[wannamaker 1,395]

34 Madness – House of fun +2

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

29 The Jam – A town called Malice

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

23 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

23 Irene Cara – Fame

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

21 Survivor – Eye of the tiger +2

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

18 Nicole – A little peace 

16 New Edition – Candy Girl

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

14 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies -6

12 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

10 Renee & Renato – Save your love

8 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

8 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen 

[RIP Wee Jum 1,559]

34 Madness – House of fun

33 The Jam – A town called Malice +4

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

23 Bucks Fizz - The Land of Make Believe

23 Irene Cara – Fame

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Duran Duran - Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

21 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up 

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

18 Nicole – A little peace 

16 New Edition – Candy Girl

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon 

14 UB40 – Red red wine 

14 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies

10 Renee & Renato – Save your love

8 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

8 Goombay Dance Band - Seven Tears

8 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen 

06 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean -6

[Clorox Bleachman 2,394]

34 Madness – House of fun

33 The Jam – Town called Malice

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

23 Bucks Fizz – The Land of Make Believe

23 Irene Cara – Fame

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Police – Every breath you take

22 Duran Duran – Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

21 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

18 Nicole – A little peace

16 New Edition – Candy Girl

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon

14 UB40 – Red red wine

14 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies

12 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen +4

10 Renee & Renato – Save your love

8 Goombay Dance Band – Seven Tears

6 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean

2 Charlene – I´ve never been to me -6

[Toast 16,075]

34 Madness – House of fun

33 The Jam – Town called Malice

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

28 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart

26 Police – Every Breath You Take  +4

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

23 Bucks Fizz – The Land of Make Believe

23 Irene Cara – Fame

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Duran Duran – Is There Something I Should Know

22 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

21 Men at Work – Down Under

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

21 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up

20 The Jam – Beat Surrender

18 Nicole – A little peace

16 New Edition – Candy Girl

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon

14 UB40 – Red red wine

14 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies

12 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

10 Renee & Renato – Save your love

8 Goombay Dance Band – Seven Tears

2 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

 

0 Michael Jackson — Billie Jean  -6

[Bibliogryphon 9,519]

34 Madness – House of fun

33 The Jam – Town called Malice

31 David Bowie – Let´s Dance

29 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart +1

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

26 Police – Every Breath You Take

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

23 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love +1

23 Bucks Fizz – The Land of Make Believe

23 Irene Cara – Fame

22 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes +1

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Duran Duran – Is There Something I Should Know

22 Men at Work – Down Under +1

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up

18 The Jam – Beat Surrender -2

18 Nicole – A little peace

15 New Edition – Candy Girl -1

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon

14 UB40 – Red red wine

14 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies

12 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

8 Goombay Dance Band – Seven Tears

7 Renee & Renato – Save your love -3

2 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

[Youth in Asia 1,082]

34 Madness – House of fun

33 The Jam – Town called Malice

29 Bonnie Tyler – Total eclipse of the heart

28 Kraftwerk – The Model / Computer Love

26 Police – Every Breath You Take

26 Captain Sensible – Happy Talk

26 Musical Youth – Pass the dutchie

26 Men at Work – Down Under +4

25 David Bowie – Let´s Dance -6

24 Flying Pickets – Only you

23 Phil Collins – You can´t hurry love

23 Bucks Fizz – The Land of Make Believe

23 Irene Cara – Fame

22 Adam Ant – Goody two shoes

22 Spandau Ballet – True

22 Duran Duran – Is There Something I Should Know

21 Eddy Grant – I don´t wanna dance

21 Kajagoogoo – Too shy

21 Billy Joel – Uptown Girl

21 Survivor – Eye of the tiger

20 Culture Club – Do you really want to hurt me

20 Paul Young – Wherever I lay my hat (that's my home)

20 KC & the Sunshine Band – Give it up

18 The Jam – Beat Surrender

18 Nicole – A little peace

15 New Edition – Candy Girl

14 Rod Stewart – Baby Jane

14 Culture Club – Karma Chameleon

14 UB40 – Red red wine

14 Bucks Fizz – My camera never lies

12 Dexy´s Midnight Runners – Come On Eileen

8 Goombay Dance Band – Seven Tears

7 Renee & Renato – Save your love

2 Charlene – I´ve never been to me

[Youth in Asia 1,082]

I've always wondered, when Charlene sings 'ive been undressed by Kings and I've seen some things that a woman ain't supposed to see' what things could she be referring to?