Political Frailty

[Clorox Bleachman 2,404]

53 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Surprisingly nothing in the media as of yet. 
 

I wonder if he actually died in Parliament itself? Been a long time since that happened. I believe you’re technically not allowed to so they don’t pronounce MPs/peers dead until they’re out of the grounds.

The same happens in NASCAR. They send dead drivers to hospital because insurance companies don't like it when they're pronounced dead on the track. I would imagine Parliament have different reasons.

[wengeruk 28]

Michael Roberts had a fatal heart attack while speaking in the Commons in 1983.

 

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1983/feb/10/welsh-affairs-1#column_1231

[The Old Crem 3,581]

1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Surprisingly nothing in the media as of yet. 
 

I wonder if he actually died in Parliament itself? Been a long time since that happened. I believe you’re technically not allowed to so they don’t pronounce MPs/peers dead until they’re out of the grounds.

The Sun said the patient was taken to hospital alive so he would have been pronounced dead there.

[YoungWillz 21,025]

Murray Elder Fife Press: https://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/politics/council/lord-elder-tributes-to-kirkcaldy-born-politician-who-has-died-aged-73-4384841

[Ulitzer95 12,576]

Interestingly, he was one of 3 parliamentarians who was a Munroist (ie had climbed all 284 3000ft+ Scottish peaks). 

 

Another was Lord Alan Haworth, who died just 2 months ago aged 75.

 

The last one is Lord Chris Smith, the country’s first openly gay male MP, and the first to publicly announce they are HIV+. Will the Reaper take him too?

[msc 18,436]

50 minutes ago, Clorox Bleachman said:

The same happens in NASCAR. They send dead drivers to hospital because insurance companies don't like it when they're pronounced dead on the track. I would imagine Parliament have different reasons.

 

Spencer Perceval started this rumour when they moved him into a nearby room after he got shot. However, its a myth as he was actually still alive (he died after being moved) and the royal rule this is meant to invoke would have covered all of Parliament grounds. However, anyone who dies in Parliament is subject to the monarch's coroner for a report, as its a royal palace. On the governments own website, it tells us you are free to die in Parliament should you feel the need. iirc Tony Benn's dad, Viscount Stansgate, died in the House of Lords after suffering a sudden stroke. They were planning to deal with Tony not wanting the peerage when his dad's unexpected death made it a political issue. 

 

You cannot however wear a suit of armour in Parliament, the spoil sports.

[Ulitzer95 12,576]

4 minutes ago, msc said:

You cannot however wear a suit of armour in Parliament, the spoil sports.

You also cannot smoke in the chamber, since 1694(!) but taking snuff is permitted, provided that it is taken from the official supply via the doorkeeper in the chamber. It’s free to take. Distributing free tobacco is illegal, but as Parliament is technically a royal palace it’s exempt. Despite this, the last time an MP was recorded to have taken some in the chamber was in 1989.

[YoungWillz 21,025]

Wait - so there's rules about snuff and snuffing it? 

 

I'll get my suit of armour....

[gcreptile 10,963]

Behind paywall for me, but still an interesting footnote, Vic FIscher, the last living participant of the Alaskan constitutional convention, has died at 99:

https://www.ketchikandailynews.com/news/alaska/vic-fischer-last-surviving-delegate-to-alaska-constitutional-convention-dies-at-age-99/article_54b8c254-7297-11ee-a2f5-b7cf034b28eb.html

 

Alaska became a state in 1959, the convention was in 1955-1956.

[Ulitzer95 12,576]

8 hours ago, The Old Crem said:

The Sun said the patient was taken to hospital alive so he would have been pronounced dead there.

The Sun are getting confused. I spoke with 2 members of the House of Lords today. They both said he almost certainly was dead by the time medical attention arrived, but that he wasn't declared dead until they took him away. It's likely he died on the estate itself.

Funnily enough, one of the peers I spoke to said "I had seen him just that morning and thought that he looked like death warmed up".

[Comped 525]

9 hours ago, Clorox Bleachman said:

The same happens in NASCAR. They send dead drivers to hospital because insurance companies don't like it when they're pronounced dead on the track. I would imagine Parliament have different reasons.

It helps that in many cases, the tracks are quite close to great hospitals. Daytona for example is not far at all from a level 2 trauma center (and only maybe a 20 minute helicopter ride from ORMC, the region's only level 1 trauma centre). London has more than that!

[arrowsmith 444]

39 minutes ago, Ulitzer95 said:

The Sun are getting confused. I spoke with 2 members of the House of Lords today. They both said he almost certainly was dead by the time medical attention arrived, but that he wasn't declared dead until they took him away. It's likely he died on the estate itself.

Funnily enough, one of the peers I spoke to said "I had seen him just that morning and thought that he looked like death warmed up".

In some jurisdictions, in the U.S. at least, emergency medical services are not able to legally declare death. This must be done by a physician, usually the coroner, and the “time of death” is when this determination is made. Perhaps there is some similar procedure in the UK?

[Ulitzer95 12,576]

2 minutes ago, arrowsmith said:

In some jurisdictions, in the U.S. at least, emergency medical services are not able to legally declare death. This must be done by a physician, usually the coroner, and the “time of death” is when this determination is made. Perhaps there is some similar procedure in the UK?

I think in this case it may be because St. Thomas's Hospital is literally across the road from Parliament. The ambulance no doubt swiftly took him to the emergency room where they pronounced him dead. If paramedics are wrestling with time, they tend to do more on the spot to resuscitate an individual, but in this case they would've been door to door in 3 minutes.

[Toast 16,129]

7 minutes ago, arrowsmith said:

In some jurisdictions, in the U.S. at least, emergency medical services are not able to legally declare death. This must be done by a physician, usually the coroner, and the “time of death” is when this determination is made. Perhaps there is some similar procedure in the UK?

 

I suppose that's why they say " found unresponsive".

The coroner is not the same in the UK.  The coroner is the official who presides over inquests.  Any doctor (physician) can declare life extinct, but the doctor who determines the cause of death at a post-mortem is a pathologist. I think that's what is meant in the US by "coroner".

[arrowsmith 444]

1 minute ago, Toast said:

 

I suppose that's why they say " found unresponsive".

The coroner is not the same in the UK.  The coroner is the official who presides over inquests.  Any doctor can declare life extinct, but the doctor who determines the cause of death at a post-mortem is a pathologist. I think that's what is meant in the US by "coroner".

Any physician may declare death, as happens when people die during surgery etc., however EMTs are not physicians hence the “found unresponsive”. Again, this is not true in all jurisdictions. Perhaps this is because the concept of a “law time of death” is quite nebulous. 

[drol 11,916]

On 01/05/2022 at 18:44, arghton said:

 

Yūji Tsushima (1930) Minister of Health and Welfare 1990 and 2000.

 

Yūji Tsushima dead at 93.

[arghton 6,695]

On 21/09/2023 at 10:47, arghton said:

Abdul Taib Mahmud back in Malaysia following a 3-month hospitalisation in Turkey for treatment of a serious bowel obstruction (and possibly cancer).

Malaysia state Sarawak's head/eternal overlord/generalissimo/father of the people/demigod, Tuan Yang Terutama Tun Pehin Sri Haji Abdul Taib Mahmud SMN PSM DK I SBS SPDK PGDK SUMW SSDK DGSM DPPN DP DA, celebrating his (second?) 87th birthday this year some days ago:

Described as very frail, they had to postpone his celebrations at the start of the month and there seems to be a bit of power struggle going on. He's held a lot of power there and is apparently insanely rich.

 

Also,

On 17/05/2023 at 13:52, arghton said:

MMMDP Form Guide #7

 

 

Moses Ali

 

He doesn't really float like a butterfly as a while ago he was over 500lbs/230kg in size, but his ailments have stung him like a swarm of bees. Most known for falling over trying to kick a football and Idi Amin throwing a trashcan at him, the Ugandan general/politician has been in utterly failing health for a while. In January 2021 he was in India for treatment. August 2021 he was fighting for his life in Turkey with covid. Last year he had a fall in parliament, was rumored dead atleast once and missed multiple events, battling a "serious illness". He's been said to be very ill this year too. As he still holds political positions at 84 and is barely alive, he's pretty much Uganda's own version of the already suggested Frankenstein's Dianne, but six times larger in size, wheelchairs not counted.

Moses Ali is back and looks like he's lost probably atleast 150 kilos:

He's "still ill" but "wants to serve his country".

[Gisooo 3,302]

On 02/08/2022 at 22:10, arghton said:

13. Portugal

Adriano Moreira (1922-2022) Minister of the Overseas Provinces 1961-1962, Member of the Assembly three times, member of the Council of State since 2016.

Margarida Tengarrinha (1928) Communist anti-Estado Novo politician.

Ester de Lemos (1929) Author, member of the National Assembly of Portugal 1965-1969

 

Now left only one from Portugal

 

Margarita Tengarrinha (Wiki) dead at 95

[adrian0719 220]

Li Keqiang dead.

[drol 11,916]

Quite shocking.

 

He was a torn in Xi's side for a decade. A direct heir to Hu Jintao, Li was a progressive premier who leaned towards free market. The last brush with Xi was on zero-Covid policy which Li strongly opposed. Xi dreamts of sidelining him for ten years and finally managed it last March.

 

He was a hero to many, and a voice of dissent. The post of premier is now held by a Xi's loyalist.

[DCI Frank Burnside 3,881]

Given he wouldn't exactly have been a full blooded supporter of Xi I wonder was it a heart attack or a "heart attack" 

 

 

[prussianblue 1,025]

6 minutes ago, DCI Frank Burnside said:

Given he wouldn't exactly have been a full blooded supporter of Xi I wonder was it a heart attack or a "heart attack" 

 

 

 

The Chinese prefer forcibly retiring people and letting them live in respectable obscurity to the crude Russian approach to purging.

[Tango854 278]

10 hours ago, drol said:

Quite shocking.

 

He was a torn in Xi's side for a decade. A direct heir to Hu Jintao, Li was a progressive premier who leaned towards free market. The last brush with Xi was on zero-Covid policy which Li strongly opposed. Xi dreamts of sidelining him for ten years and finally managed it last March.

 

He was a hero to many, and a voice of dissent. The post of premier is now held by a Xi's loyalist.

no idea what you have been reading, but he has been effectively sidelined ever since he got the position of premier. 

[The Old Crem 3,581]

Hélène Alarie, member of the House of Commons of Canada from 1997 to 2000 has died aged 82 Obit

[Sir Creep 7,070]

It’s a shame to see what has happened to this thread.  Or should I say the blending and overlap of a few threads.