Political Frailty

[Deathrace 1,171]

It's very hard to think of many recent Scottish politicians who have lived to be 90 plus. Winnie Ewing (who lived to be 93) and Sir Albert McQuarrie (who Salmond defeated in 1987 and lived to be 98) are the only ones I can think of. 

 

 

 

 

[msc 18,490]

9 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

 

You make a very good point and introduce a timely reminder. Anecdotal coincidences do not make a coherent theory. Off the top off my head I could think of several hihh profile politicians from Scotland (Robin Cook could be added to that list and someone has already mentioned John Smith) who had died relatively early over the past generation, I extrapolated that with a flippant comment but as all good statisticians know you cannot draw conclusions from small samples sizes. Even if someone ran a full statistical comparison between ages of Death of MPs representing Scottish constituencies and the same for English ones you would need to be wary about drawing any firm conclusions because of the disparity between the sizes of cohorts.

 

Salmond was probably an exhibit for your theory as he didn't look after his health. John Smith had well documented heart issues he thought he had recovered from. Robin Cook was very unlucky, he'd possibly have survived the head injury or the heart attack but not both in the wilderness at the same time. There's also Sam Galbraith (turned down life saving surgery).

 

But in the past we've stretched this to all labour politicians and included heart attacks while jogging, mesothelioma and the old favourite, drinking too much Polish absinthe in one meal! Usually the generation being looked at tended to be poorer in early life or vices ridden so let's see what happens to the Blair spad generation!

[En Passant 3,743]

20 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

all good statisticians know you cannot draw conclusions from small samples sizes

 

How many statisticians were in the sample that decided which were the good ones?

[Bibliogryphon 9,597]

2 minutes ago, En Passant said:

 

How many statisticians were in the sample that decided which were the good ones?

 

They excluded anyone who worked on polling for the 1992 election

[Tuber Mirum 125]

1 hour ago, Ulitzer95 said:

Jimmy Savile did a lot of charity work too.

Did I tell you about the time I met Jimmy Saville?

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

On the one hand, a shocking death that was unexpected at this moment in time. On the other, as others have said, a ticking timebomb that was always likely to end this way. Always rather full of himself, but you can't really deny his successes and his impact on the independence debate in Scotland. To even get to the point where a referendum took place was staggering, to only lose by 4 points was truly seismic. Wonder what will become of Alba now, is there anybody to fill the void? If the SNP wasn't such a mess at the moment, one would think this would be the end of the split in the independence movement. That seems less likely now, but I'm not sure who has the personality to take up the mantle of the leavers who are disenchanted with the SNP.

[maryportfuncity 10,662]

1 minute ago, RoverAndOut said:

On the one hand, a shocking death that was unexpected at this moment in time. On the other, as others have said, a ticking timebomb that was always likely to end this way. Always rather full of himself, but you can't really deny his successes and his impact on the independence debate in Scotland. To even get to the point where a referendum took place was staggering, to only lose by 4 points was truly seismic. Wonder what will become of Alba now, is there anybody to fill the void? If the SNP wasn't such a mess at the moment, one would think this would be the end of the split in the independence movement. That seems less likely now, but I'm not sure who has the personality to take up the mantle of the leavers who are disenchanted with the SNP.

 

 

The loss was 55.3% winning side/ 44.7% losing side, so few spoiled ballots they were statistically insignificant, right?

[arrowsmith 448]

16 minutes ago, Tuber Mirum said:

Did I tell you about the time I met Jimmy Saville?

Good Lord, are you alright?

[Commtech Sio Bibble 2,063]

It's poetic that he spent his career fighting for the freedom of his own country, only to die abroad in an relatively obscure country that has already achieved its own independence.

[The Old Crem 3,611]

19 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

On the one hand, a shocking death that was unexpected at this moment in time. On the other, as others have said, a ticking timebomb that was always likely to end this way. Always rather full of himself, but you can't really deny his successes and his impact on the independence debate in Scotland. To even get to the point where a referendum took place was staggering, to only lose by 4 points was truly seismic. Wonder what will become of Alba now, is there anybody to fill the void? If the SNP wasn't such a mess at the moment, one would think this would be the end of the split in the independence movement. That seems less likely now, but I'm not sure who has the personality to take up the mantle of the leavers who are disenchanted with the SNP.

Considering Alba’s electoral lack of success it’s hard to imagine it surviving. It didn’t get many votes led by him so Somekne less high profile is not likely to do any better.

 

[prussianblue 1,038]

1 hour ago, Deathrace said:

It's very hard to think of many recent Scottish politicians who have lived to be 90 plus. Winnie Ewing (who lived to be 93) and Sir Albert McQuarrie (who Salmond defeated in 1987 and lived to be 98) are the only ones I can think of. 

 

Well, don't forget that our last head of state lived to 96

[prussianblue 1,038]

35 minutes ago, Commtech Sio Bibble said:

It's poetic that he spent his career fighting for the freedom of his own country, only to die abroad in an relatively obscure country that has already achieved its own independence.

 

You could also see some poetry in the leader of Alba dying in Ohrid, as on the opposite shore of the lake of the same name lies Albania. 

[Ulitzer95 12,690]

1 hour ago, Deathrace said:

It's very hard to think of many recent Scottish politicians who have lived to be 90 plus. Winnie Ewing (who lived to be 93) and Sir Albert McQuarrie (who Salmond defeated in 1987 and lived to be 98) are the only ones I can think of. 

 

 

 

 

SNP
Arthur Donaldson (wiki), SNP leader from 1960 to 1969, lived to be 91.
Winnie Ewing (wiki), SNP president from 1987 to 2005/MP/MSP/MEP, lived to be 93.
Roland Muirhead (wiki) SNP president from 1936 to 1950 lived to be 96.

Tory
Sir Alex Douglas-Home (wiki), PM from 1963 to 1964 and 3x MP, lived to be 92 (from England originally).
Adam Fergusson (wiki), MEP from 1979 to 1984, is currently 92.
David Myles (wiki), MP from 1979 to 1983, lived to be 93.
Sir John Gilmour (wiki), MP from 1961 to 1979, lived to be 94.
Sir Albert McQuarrie (wiki), MP from 1979 to 1987, lived to be 98.

Labour
Richard Buchanan (wiki), MP from 1964 to 1979, lived to be 90.
Myer Galpern (wiki), MP from 1959 to 1979, lived to be 90.
Robert Hughes (wiki), MP from 1970 to 1997, lived to be 90.
John Forman (wiki), MP from 1945 to 1964, lived to be 91.
Eric Clarke (wiki), MP from 1992 to 2001, is currently 91.
Alex Eadie (wiki), MP from 1966 to 1992, lived to be 91.
Tom Henderson (wiki) MP from 1922 to 1931 and 1935 to 1945, lived to be 92.
Alan Thompson (wiki), MP from 1959 to 1964, lived to be 92.
Thomas Scollan (wiki), MP from 1945 to 1950, lived to be 91.
David Lambie (wiki), MP from 1970 to 1992, lived to be 94.
Ronald King Murray (wiki), MP from 1970 to 1979, lived to be 94.
John Williams (wiki), MP from 1945 to 1950, lived to be 94.

Lib Dem
None

Scottish Green
None

Independent
John Boyd Orr (wiki), MP from 1945 to 1946, lived to be 90.

I covered party heads (leaders/deputy leaders/presidents), MPs, MEPs and MSPs.
I didn't cover hereditary or life peers, councillors, non-elected officials, trade unionists etc. (too many of them) or MPs from now defunct parties (e.g. Liberal Party or Unionist Party).

There are quite a number of nonagenarian Scottish politicians. Granted, not as many as many other countries and no centenarians at all (Albert McQuarrie was the oldest to date at 98).

[Toast 16,162]

37 minutes ago, prussianblue said:

Well, don't forget that our last head of state lived to 96

 

And she was half Scottish.

[Windsor 2,233]

[FinalChapter 75]

Looking at recent clips of him, the man’s complexion was dark red going on deep purple. Doesn’t take a coroner to hazard a guess at cause of death. 

[RoverAndOut 4,746]

Other recent pictures notwithstanding, it's fair to say in this press photo of the gathering he died at, he does look very much like a heart attack waiting to happen...

 

[Ulitzer95 12,690]

59 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

Other recent pictures notwithstanding, it's fair to say in this press photo of the gathering he died at, he does look very much like a heart attack waiting to happen...

There wasn't a single part of that man who didn't look like a walking heart attack. Fat face, fat cheeks, cankles, extra value bingo wings, massive belly, a man-gunt, sausage fingers, burger grease hair.

Here's some close ups from his "Scottish independence will still happen in my lifetime" (lol) interview from 3.5 weeks ago:




 

[Paul Bearer 6,119]

[Tuber Mirum 125]

23 hours ago, arrowsmith said:

Good Lord, are you alright?

No worries. It must have been around 1990. I was wandering around Glasgow pished (as you do) and Saville appeared off a boat on the Clyde in a Kaftan and smoking a cigar. He congratulated me on having run the Glasgow marathon that day, which I hadn't, with the words "Well done, well done, well done!" Apparently I had inadvertently gatecrashed an After-Marathon party. I made my excuses and left.

[YoungWillz 21,081]

On 03/08/2011 at 21:41, maryportfuncity said:

 

Might I suggest keeping an eye on Baron Campbell- Savours? For all the posh name and pedigree he was Labour MP for Wukkie for years and his current semi-retirement came about after he battled cancer.

Dale Campbell-Savours participates remotely in the proceedings in the Lords, as he admitted in a debate yesterday. He has done so for at least the last three years.

 

I'm unaware if this is a common practice. I thought they had to turn up to get the allowance. How many other Lords and Ladies do we know sit on their couch and join in the public debate?

 

Anyway, might be a sign of slowing down.

[maryportfuncity 10,662]

1 minute ago, YoungWillz said:

Dale Campbell-Savours participates remotely in the proceedings in the Lords, as he admitted in a debate yesterday. He has done so for at least the last three years.

 

I'm unaware if this is a common practice. I thought they had to turn up to get the allowance. How many other Lords and Ladies do we know sit on their couch and join in the public debate?

 

Anyway, might be a sign of slowing down.

 

 

A good question, though I posted that over 13 years ago, respect for the guy still being with us at 81

[Ulitzer95 12,690]

3 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Dale Campbell-Savours participates remotely in the proceedings in the Lords, as he admitted in a debate yesterday. He has done so for at least the last three years.

 

I'm unaware if this is a common practice. I thought they had to turn up to get the allowance. How many other Lords and Ladies do we know sit on their couch and join in the public debate?

 

Anyway, might be a sign of slowing down.

There needs to be exceptional circumstances in order to do so. They employed the process more during the pandemic but it’s discouraged now.

[Comped 533]

9 hours ago, Ulitzer95 said:

There needs to be exceptional circumstances in order to do so. They employed the process more during the pandemic but it’s discouraged now.

Could be for health reasons?

[drol 12,014]

On 13/09/2021 at 22:21, arghton said:

If only Europe is counted, I'd say that there are not very many.

 

However I did this "leaders who first came to power 1971-1980" list a while ago, and it's horribly long:

 

Paul McDonald Calvo (b. 1934) Governor of Guam 1979-1983

 

Paul McDonald Calvo dead at 90.