Scavenger Hunt Bingo Deadpool II

[msc 18,562]

Well done Rover.

 

Am shocked this game has actually ended.

[time 8,689]

Well done @RoverAndOut.

 

I'm probably never going to get that close to winning anything ever again.

[Miracle Aligner 249]

Well done @RoverAndOut

 

Amazed this has actually finished. 

[Bibliogryphon 9,654]

38 minutes ago, time said:

Well done @RoverAndOut.

 

I'm probably never going to get that close to winning anything ever again.

Must be fair to you @Toast & @Death Impends

 

You all had a hit with Johnny Mandel but it was only a winning hit for Rover

 

 

[Toast 16,248]

18 minutes ago, Bibliogryphon said:

Must be fair to you @Toast & @Death Impends

You all had a hit with Johnny Mandel but it was only a winning hit for Rove

 

Yes, but it means I scored in four of the five categories (only missing a boxer) so I am pleased. 

Looking forward to the next round.   

Well done, Rover!

[Grim Up North 3,771]

I expect an avalanche of deaths of Presidents and Prime Ministers of the current 28 European Union countries to ensue.

 

My surviving 5  - Balladur 91, Forlani 94, d'Estaing 94, Napolitano 95, Strougal 95. Not even sure they managed a hospital admission between them in 2 and a half years.

[msc 18,562]

9 minutes ago, Grim Up North said:

I expect an avalanche of deaths of Presidents and Prime Ministers of the current 28 European Union countries to ensue.

 

My surviving 5  - Balladur 91, Forlani 94, d'Estaing 94, Napolitano 95, Strougal 95. Not even sure they managed a hospital admission between them in 2 and a half years.

 

Adamkus 93, Forlani 94, Manolic 100, Ruutel 92 Sartzetakis 91 did much the same.

 

Although Valdas Adamkus, is it just me or does he sound like a villain from Catweazle or the like?

 

EDIT - Not only did Manolic not die, he gave a fucking interview 2 weeks ago and looks healthier than anyone!

[Grim Up North 3,771]

11 minutes ago, msc said:

Sartzetakis

 

Didn't die but delicious on a bit of warm pitta bread.

[Death Impends 8,063]

Congratulations Rover on finally completing the game

[Spade_Cooley 9,639]

Kudos to RAO (RAO like a dungeon dragon). Willing to bet every aged European leader will now drop dead in the next fortnight.

[YoungWillz 21,261]

Congrats to Rover!

 

I did rather well by my standards. I pray for long running games like this.....

 

Hope Rover picks some good categories that I know summat about.

[Miracle Aligner 249]

35 minutes ago, YoungWillz said:

Congrats to Rover!

 

I did rather well by my standards. I pray for long running games like this.....

 

Hope Rover picks some good categories that I know summat about.

 

If Corrie actors isn't a category I'll be sorely disappointed. 

[gcreptile 11,099]

Lol... if Carl Reiner died before Johnny Mandel then I technically had a 2nd unique hit.... so I didn't fail quite as much as the official scoreboard suggests.

[RoverAndOut 4,756]

Literally just seen the news perusing the BBC website. Couldn't believe my eyes! Headed straight here to confirm my unlikely suspicions.  Thanks for all the congratulations folks, very good of you for a modest outsider. My first deathpool victory, I'd like to think it was down to strong tactical nous but let's be honest it was sheer luck. It was on September 29th 2018 that Death Impends was one hit away from victory. Even then I was only 3 hits away but it took another 20 months to put me within 1 hit of victory, during which time 5 others had moved into contention before me!

 

Hilariously, my 98 year-old Grammy winner is still going strong, but thank you Johnny Mandel. Can I also just say I'm glad it was decided decisively and not on a technicality or countback? The completist in me also like that I did it with a full house of one in every category.

 

Thanks as always to @Bibliogryphon for running this, it's a great game and I'll be in touch regarding Round 3!!!

[RoverAndOut 4,756]

Basking in the afterglow of my victory, I was crunching some numbers as to whether this game really was much more of a slog than the first round.

 

SHBDP I lasted for 18 months, with 24 deaths in total before Rotten Ali's third unique pick of Keith Barron (Actors in Dr Who) ended the game.

After 17 months, SHBDP II had scored 25 deaths, one more than the same period in Round 1 (there were no deaths in Month 18 [August 2019]). After this, there were just 8 further deaths in the next 11 months until the death of Johnny Mandel (Grammy Award Winners) gave me a hit in every category yesterday, with a particular drought in the second half of 2019 of just 1 death between August and December (Jacques Chirac in September). So blame late 2019 for the slow progress of this one!

 

In Round 1, deaths were distributed in the following categories:

Doctor Who actors - 5

House of Lords members - 10

US Presidential Candidates (and spouses) - 0

Test Match Cricketers - 5

UK #1 Hit Artists - 4

 

In Round 2, deaths were distributed in the following categories:

EU Leaders - 5 (3 at same end point at R1)

World Title Winning Boxers - 3 (2)

Stars of Dallas - 8 (7)

Grammy Award Winners - 11 (10)

Actors in Kevin Bacon Films - 6 (3)

 

So, unlike in Round 1, it was possible to get one in each category to win - that was actually possible as early as February last year, when the first boxer (Rocky Longridge) dropped as a unique for Spade.

 

Closest we came to all 5 dying in a category this time was 3/5 (Kevin Bacon for YoungWillz, Grammy Winners for Death Impends and Dallas Stars for Time, Sir Creep, Death Impends, Rover and Out and Grim Up North). This was about the same level as last time round (in shorter time) when Death Impends and Toast scored 3/5 #1 Hit Artists and Rover and Out scored 4/5 Test Cricketers (Everton Weekes is still going now!).

 

As many will remember, Death Impends has been close to winning this since September 2018, when Otis Rush (Grammy Winners) gave him 2 Uniques, but his other 4 Uniques have remained stubbornly alive. Rotten Ali won by this method in Round 1, taking 9 months to get his first 2 Uniques and another 9 months to get his remaining Unique (out of 6 possible outs).

 

So what can we learn? Probably not much. It's down to the luck of who you pick (duh). The categories this time were full of ripe possibilities so everyone went in slightly different directions, which widened the scope for hits but also made it much more of a stab in the dark. The spread of hits was very similar in both rounds (1 category in double figures, 2 more on 5+). But to give an idea of how easily things could have changed this time, both Death Impends and Spade Cooley scored the first hits of Round 2 with the death of Charles Neville. If either one of them hadn't chosen him, the other would have earned a Unique hit and the game would have been over after 6 months for Death Impends or 12 months for Spade!

 

This game really is a beauty that in both rounds so far has thrown up no end of permutations and gave 7 people a realistic chance of victory this time and saw an outsider in April win it in June. Already cooking up my categories for Round 3 (which I'm leaving in Biblio's safe hands to administrate) and hopefully they can continue the intrigue. Anyway, ramblings over... 

[Joey Russ 7,272]

1 hour ago, RoverAndOut said:

Rover and Out scored 4/5 Test Cricketers (Everton Weekes is still going now!).

This aged quite well...

[RoverAndOut 4,756]

8 minutes ago, Joey Russ said:

This aged quite well...

 

What are the odds?! I'm going to put the lottery on this weekend... 

[RoverAndOut 4,756]

So, final bit of spam from me for now, but following the astonishing death of Sir Everton Weekes less than an hour after I posted he was the only man still batting from my cricketing line-up in Round 1,  I thought I'd see how the first round of this has progressed since it ended nearly 3 years ago (in other words: just how rubbish were we all?)

 

There have been a total of 41 deaths since Round 1 finished. Perhaps not surprisingly, the House of Lords leads the way with 16 deaths and there's been 8 deaths apiece for Actors in Doctor Who and UK #1 Hit Artists;. After no hits during gameplay in the US Presidential Candidates and spouses category, 5 have come since and, strangely, after the first 3 deaths ever in Scavenger Hunt Bingo were Test Match Cricketers, there have only been 3 since the game ended.

 

Following @Rotten Ali's win in November 2017, just 3 weeks later the death of John B. Anderson in the US category put @Death Impends, Rover and Out and @Toast over the top with hits in all 5 categories (I forget who would win in a tie break and does it look like I have time to work it out? Actually, don't answer that...). @Switch now just needed a Doctor Who Actor to follow suit.

 

The next two hits in December and January were Randolph Quirk (House of Lords) and Bella Emberg (Dr Who), both unique picks for @Handrejka (who scored no hits whatsoever in normal gameplay) - this put her 1 unique away from victory all of a sudden. Also in January, Peter Wyngarde (Dr Who) died, putting @rockhopper penguin 1 unique away too and in February, the death of Hubert Doggart (Cricketers) made @gcreptile the 5th person to the winning post with a hit in all 5 categories. Sometime in January (apparently - no date), Antony Webb (Dr Who) also died, giving @msc 3 uniques.

 

The death of Barbara Bush (US) in April brought double success to @ImNotHades as both his 3rd unique pick and giving a hit in all 5 categories. This makes him the first person to win by more than one method. 7 months later, the death of her husband, George HW Bush (US) put @YoungWillz, @RadGuy and @Deathray 1 Doctor Who actor away and Captain Chorizo 1 Cricketer away, also putting Rotten Ali over the top again with a hit in all 5 categories.

 

Windsor Davies's death in January 2019 was a unique hit for both me (Dr Who) and Handrejka (#1s), putting Handy over the top with 3 uniques. No more successes until August, when Ian Sinclair (Cricketers) put Handrejka over the top again with all 5 categories filled, then in November Edwin Bramall's death (House of Lords) made Rotten Ali the first person to win by all 3 methods with all 5 of his doddery lords croaking it - truly a worthy first champion. (Lord Bramall was actually one of the 6 unique picks he could have won with in the first place!)

 

Coming right up to date now and Vera Lynn's death gave Toast a full house in her #1 Artists group and 2 weeks later (yesterday, in fact) Everton Weekes's demise (Cricketers) put Captain Chorizo over the top with a hit in all 5 categories, while also putting Rover over the top with all 5 cricketers gone.

 

The leaderboard stands thus:

1. Rotten Ali - 3 uniques (won the game) - also All 5 Lords AND All 5 Categories (only person to complete all 3 methods to date)

2. Toast - All 5 Categories - also All 5 #1 Artists (1 unique away from the set)

2. Death Impends - All 5 categories (1 Lord and 1 #1 Artist still standing and no uniques as yet)

2. Rover and Out - All 5 categories - also All 5 Cricketers (cannot win by unique method - only 2 picked)

5. gcreptile - All 5 categories (1 US Candidate left and 1 unique needed)

6. msc - 3 uniques (1 Lord or 1 #1 Artist needed plus any US Candidate [seriously msc, neither Bush?!])

7. ImNotHades - 3 uniques - also All 5 categories (still needs 3 Lords, US Candidates or #1 Artists)

8. Handrejka - 3 uniques - also All 5 categories (2 Lords still standing)

9. Captain Chorizo - All 5 categories (1 Lord left and 1 unique needed)

10. Rockhopper Penguin - (1 away in all 3 categories: needs 1 unique, 1 #1 Artist for All 5 categories and has 1 Lord still standing)

11. Switch, YoungWillz, RadGuy, @time and Deathray - I cannot really separate you as you're all 1 hit away and all need a Doctor Who actor for All 5 Categories. YoungWillz and Deathray also have 1 Lord left, Switch has 1 #1 Artist left and RadGuy needs 2 #1 Artists,  while Time has 2 Lords left. None of you are close with the uniques though.

 

In terms of most overall deaths (out of 25), I'm leading the way with 19 (making me think I'm strangely good at this *one* game ), Toast and msc have 14, Death Impends is on 13, Rotten Ali and gcreptile have 11, Handrejka, Switch, Rockhopper Penguin and Captain Chorizo have 10,  Deathray has 9, RadGuy, ImNotHades and Young Willz have 8 and Time has 7 - only 7 hits but only 1 away from completion, now that's economical!

 

One quirk of the game too - 3 years after it finished, I've discovered that one of the entrants was ineligible! Roy Miller, picked by Switch, RadGuy and ImNotHades for their Cricketers team apparently died on August 21st 2014 - just the 2 years before the game started! He's on my research list though, so clearly this wasn't known at the time. 

 

Unless anyone requests the full list of deaths, I'll leave that out (this is already too long) but it's interesting looking back, if only to see some names that don't seem to be around much anymore.  And it turns out we're not totally useless after all!

[msc 18,562]

21 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

6. msc - 3 uniques (1 Lord or 1 #1 Artist needed plus any US Candidate [seriously msc, neither Bush?!])

 

 

iirc (and 4 years ago so probably not) I was bit perplexed by that question for some reason and thought it was far more restricted than it actually was.

[Miracle Aligner 249]

27 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

So, final bit of spam from me for now, but following the astonishing death of Sir Everton Weekes less than an hour after I posted he was the only man still batting from my cricketing line-up in Round 1,  I thought I'd see how the first round of this has progressed since it ended nearly 3 years ago (in other words: just how rubbish were we all?)

 

There have been a total of 41 deaths since Round 1 finished. Perhaps not surprisingly, the House of Lords leads the way with 16 deaths and there's been 8 deaths apiece for Actors in Doctor Who and UK #1 Hit Artists;. After no hits during gameplay in the US Presidential Candidates and spouses category, 5 have come since and, strangely, after the first 3 deaths ever in Scavenger Hunt Bingo were Test Match Cricketers, there have only been 3 since the game ended.

 

Following @Rotten Ali's win in November 2017, just 3 weeks later the death of John B. Anderson in the US category put @Death Impends, Rover and Out and @Toast over the top with hits in all 5 categories (I forget who would win in a tie break and does it look like I have time to work it out? Actually, don't answer that...). @Switch now just needed a Doctor Who Actor to follow suit.

 

The next two hits in December and January were Randolph Quirk (House of Lords) and Bella Emberg (Dr Who), both unique picks for @Handrejka (who scored no hits whatsoever in normal gameplay) - this put her 1 unique away from victory all of a sudden. Also in January, Peter Wyngarde (Dr Who) died, putting @rockhopper penguin 1 unique away too and in February, the death of Hubert Doggart (Cricketers) made @gcreptile the 5th person to the winning post with a hit in all 5 categories. Sometime in January (apparently - no date), Antony Webb (Dr Who) also died, giving @msc 3 uniques.

 

The death of Barbara Bush (US) in April brought double success to @ImNotHades as both his 3rd unique pick and giving a hit in all 5 categories. This makes him the first person to win by more than one method. 7 months later, the death of her husband, George HW Bush (US) put @YoungWillz, @RadGuy and @Deathray 1 Doctor Who actor away and Captain Chorizo 1 Cricketer away, also putting Rotten Ali over the top again with a hit in all 5 categories.

 

Windsor Davies's death in January 2019 was a unique hit for both me (Dr Who) and Handrejka (#1s), putting Handy over the top with 3 uniques. No more successes until August, when Ian Sinclair (Cricketers) put Handrejka over the top again with all 5 categories filled, then in November Edwin Bramall's death (House of Lords) made Rotten Ali the first person to win by all 3 methods with all 5 of his doddery lords croaking it - truly a worthy first champion. (Lord Bramall was actually one of the 6 unique picks he could have won with in the first place!)

 

Coming right up to date now and Vera Lynn's death gave Toast a full house in her #1 Artists group and 2 weeks later (yesterday, in fact) Everton Weekes's demise (Cricketers) put Captain Chorizo over the top with a hit in all 5 categories, while also putting Rover over the top with all 5 cricketers gone.

 

The leaderboard stands thus:

1. Rotten Ali - 3 uniques (won the game) - also All 5 Lords AND All 5 Categories (only person to complete all 3 methods to date)

2. Toast - All 5 Categories - also All 5 #1 Artists (1 unique away from the set)

2. Death Impends - All 5 categories (1 Lord and 1 #1 Artist still standing and no uniques as yet)

2. Rover and Out - All 5 categories - also All 5 Cricketers (cannot win by unique method - only 2 picked)

5. gcreptile - All 5 categories (1 US Candidate left and 1 unique needed)

6. msc - 3 uniques (1 Lord or 1 #1 Artist needed plus any US Candidate [seriously msc, neither Bush?!])

7. ImNotHades - 3 uniques - also All 5 categories (still needs 3 Lords, US Candidates or #1 Artists)

8. Handrejka - 3 uniques - also All 5 categories (2 Lords still standing)

9. Captain Chorizo - All 5 categories (1 Lord left and 1 unique needed)

10. Rockhopper Penguin - (1 away in all 3 categories: needs 1 unique, 1 #1 Artist for All 5 categories and has 1 Lord still standing)

11. Switch, YoungWillz, RadGuy, @time and Deathray - I cannot really separate you as you're all 1 hit away and all need a Doctor Who actor for All 5 Categories. YoungWillz and Deathray also have 1 Lord left, Switch has 1 #1 Artist left and RadGuy needs 2 #1 Artists,  while Time has 2 Lords left. None of you are close with the uniques though.

 

In terms of most overall deaths (out of 25), I'm leading the way with 19 (making me think I'm strangely good at this *one* game ), Toast and msc have 14, Death Impends is on 13, Rotten Ali and gcreptile have 11, Handrejka, Switch, Rockhopper Penguin and Captain Chorizo have 10,  Deathray has 9, RadGuy, ImNotHades and Young Willz have 8 and Time has 7 - only 7 hits but only 1 away from completion, now that's economical!

 

One quirk of the game too - 3 years after it finished, I've discovered that one of the entrants was ineligible! Roy Miller, picked by Switch, RadGuy and ImNotHades for their Cricketers team apparently died on August 21st 2014 - just the 2 years before the game started! He's on my research list though, so clearly this wasn't known at the time. 

 

Unless anyone requests the full list of deaths, I'll leave that out (this is already too long) but it's interesting looking back, if only to see some names that don't seem to be around much anymore.  And it turns out we're not totally useless after all!

 

Request for this as I cba to go back and see which 9 of my lot actually died, let alone who was in the teams in the first place. 

[Grim Up North 3,771]

29 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

So, final bit of spam from me for now, but following the astonishing death of Sir Everton Weekes less than an hour after I posted he was the only man still batting from my cricketing line-up in Round 1,  I thought I'd see how the first round of this has progressed since it ended nearly 3 years ago (in other words: just how rubbish were we all?)

 

There have been a total of 41 deaths since Round 1 finished. Perhaps not surprisingly, the House of Lords leads the way with 16 deaths and there's been 8 deaths apiece for Actors in Doctor Who and UK #1 Hit Artists;. After no hits during gameplay in the US Presidential Candidates and spouses category, 5 have come since and, strangely, after the first 3 deaths ever in Scavenger Hunt Bingo were Test Match Cricketers, there have only been 3 since the game ended.

 

Following @Rotten Ali's win in November 2017, just 3 weeks later the death of John B. Anderson in the US category put @Death Impends, Rover and Out and @Toast over the top with hits in all 5 categories (I forget who would win in a tie break and does it look like I have time to work it out? Actually, don't answer that...). @Switch now just needed a Doctor Who Actor to follow suit.

 

The next two hits in December and January were Randolph Quirk (House of Lords) and Bella Emberg (Dr Who), both unique picks for @Handrejka (who scored no hits whatsoever in normal gameplay) - this put her 1 unique away from victory all of a sudden. Also in January, Peter Wyngarde (Dr Who) died, putting @rockhopper penguin 1 unique away too and in February, the death of Hubert Doggart (Cricketers) made @gcreptile the 5th person to the winning post with a hit in all 5 categories. Sometime in January (apparently - no date), Antony Webb (Dr Who) also died, giving @msc 3 uniques.

 

The death of Barbara Bush (US) in April brought double success to @ImNotHades as both his 3rd unique pick and giving a hit in all 5 categories. This makes him the first person to win by more than one method. 7 months later, the death of her husband, George HW Bush (US) put @YoungWillz, @RadGuy and @Deathray 1 Doctor Who actor away and Captain Chorizo 1 Cricketer away, also putting Rotten Ali over the top again with a hit in all 5 categories.

 

Windsor Davies's death in January 2019 was a unique hit for both me (Dr Who) and Handrejka (#1s), putting Handy over the top with 3 uniques. No more successes until August, when Ian Sinclair (Cricketers) put Handrejka over the top again with all 5 categories filled, then in November Edwin Bramall's death (House of Lords) made Rotten Ali the first person to win by all 3 methods with all 5 of his doddery lords croaking it - truly a worthy first champion. (Lord Bramall was actually one of the 6 unique picks he could have won with in the first place!)

 

Coming right up to date now and Vera Lynn's death gave Toast a full house in her #1 Artists group and 2 weeks later (yesterday, in fact) Everton Weekes's demise (Cricketers) put Captain Chorizo over the top with a hit in all 5 categories, while also putting Rover over the top with all 5 cricketers gone.

 

The leaderboard stands thus:

1. Rotten Ali - 3 uniques (won the game) - also All 5 Lords AND All 5 Categories (only person to complete all 3 methods to date)

2. Toast - All 5 Categories - also All 5 #1 Artists (1 unique away from the set)

2. Death Impends - All 5 categories (1 Lord and 1 #1 Artist still standing and no uniques as yet)

2. Rover and Out - All 5 categories - also All 5 Cricketers (cannot win by unique method - only 2 picked)

5. gcreptile - All 5 categories (1 US Candidate left and 1 unique needed)

6. msc - 3 uniques (1 Lord or 1 #1 Artist needed plus any US Candidate [seriously msc, neither Bush?!])

7. ImNotHades - 3 uniques - also All 5 categories (still needs 3 Lords, US Candidates or #1 Artists)

8. Handrejka - 3 uniques - also All 5 categories (2 Lords still standing)

9. Captain Chorizo - All 5 categories (1 Lord left and 1 unique needed)

10. Rockhopper Penguin - (1 away in all 3 categories: needs 1 unique, 1 #1 Artist for All 5 categories and has 1 Lord still standing)

11. Switch, YoungWillz, RadGuy, @time and Deathray - I cannot really separate you as you're all 1 hit away and all need a Doctor Who actor for All 5 Categories. YoungWillz and Deathray also have 1 Lord left, Switch has 1 #1 Artist left and RadGuy needs 2 #1 Artists,  while Time has 2 Lords left. None of you are close with the uniques though.

 

In terms of most overall deaths (out of 25), I'm leading the way with 19 (making me think I'm strangely good at this *one* game ), Toast and msc have 14, Death Impends is on 13, Rotten Ali and gcreptile have 11, Handrejka, Switch, Rockhopper Penguin and Captain Chorizo have 10,  Deathray has 9, RadGuy, ImNotHades and Young Willz have 8 and Time has 7 - only 7 hits but only 1 away from completion, now that's economical!

 

One quirk of the game too - 3 years after it finished, I've discovered that one of the entrants was ineligible! Roy Miller, picked by Switch, RadGuy and ImNotHades for their Cricketers team apparently died on August 21st 2014 - just the 2 years before the game started! He's on my research list though, so clearly this wasn't known at the time. 

 

Unless anyone requests the full list of deaths, I'll leave that out (this is already too long) but it's interesting looking back, if only to see some names that don't seem to be around much anymore.  And it turns out we're not totally useless after all!

 

Are you sure you need Biblio to run this on your behalf? 

 

Showing some fine hosting skills in that little post.

[Toast 16,248]

Let the impatient folks jeer, this is truly a fascinating format for a deadpool.

[RoverAndOut 4,756]

2 hours ago, Grim Up North said:

 

Are you sure you need Biblio to run this on your behalf? 

 

Showing some fine hosting skills in that little post.

 

Very kind of you to say so - it's a great game and I'm good at dipping in and out but I don't really have the time or focus to do it justice week in, week out (I'm a teacher - bit more free time during lockdown!). You can bet I'll take slightly greater interest as I'm picking the categories but Biblio's done a great job these first two rounds and if he's happy to continue I'm not going to rock the boat and let it all fall apart! I'll moderate the finished games that don't have the time pressure instead. 

[RoverAndOut 4,756]

3 hours ago, msc said:

 

iirc (and 4 years ago so probably not) I was bit perplexed by that question for some reason and thought it was far more restricted than it actually was.

Yeah, when I was checking back you did seem pretty pessimistic of your chances of scoring a hit in that category. I do wonder how you reached the conclusion that an elderly President of the United States wasn't going to count in a round on US Presidents though. 

 

[Miracle Aligner 249]

51 minutes ago, RoverAndOut said:

 

Very kind of you to say so - it's a great game and I'm good at dipping in and out but I don't really have the time or focus to do it justice week in, week out (I'm a teacher - bit more free time during lockdown!). You can bet I'll take slightly greater interest as I'm picking the categories but Biblio's done a great job these first two rounds and if he's happy to continue I'm not going to rock the boat and let it all fall apart! I'll moderate the finished games that don't have the time pressure instead. 

 

Your very optimistic about frequency of hits in this pool. You could probably update in the holidays and no-one would notice.