Deathray 2,941 Posted March 17, 2020 The UK government's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance is appearing at the House of Common's health committee. He tells MPs that the UK should start to see rates of infection come down in two to three weeks. He says it would be "a good outcome" if the number of coronavirus-related deaths in the UK can be kept to below 20,000. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toast 16,155 Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Deathray said: The UK government's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance is appearing at the House of Common's health committee. He tells MPs that the UK should start to see rates of infection come down in two to three weeks. He says it would be "a good outcome" if the number of coronavirus-related deaths in the UK can be kept to below 20,000. But nobody knows what the "rate of infection" is. We simply don't know how many people have got/had it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,408 Posted March 17, 2020 Rishi Sunak, off of Chancellors, has announced a third of a trillion pounds worth of Coronavirus emergency package to help businesses face the challenges that come with everyone being holed up at home. It still doesn't quite go far enough, in my honest opinion, but he has said more could be made available. Good move, but just imagine if a non-Tory government proposed a financial package worth nearly 15% of the UK's GDP; they'd be pilloried to high heaven for trying to crash our economy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,220 Posted March 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said: Rishi Sunak, off of Chancellors, has announced a third of a trillion pounds worth of Coronavirus emergency package to help businesses face the challenges that come with everyone being holed up at home. It still doesn't quite go far enough, in my honest opinion, but he has said more could be made available. Good move, but just imagine if a non-Tory government proposed a financial package worth nearly 15% of the UK's GDP; they'd be pilloried to high heaven for trying to crash our economy. They wouldn't. The economy is going to crash anyway so throwing money at the problem is a no brainer. If it can prop us all up till the worst is over then it is money well spent. Our customers are starting to cancel work, my son has 7 people to find work for every day, me included, and it is going to go all shit. No work, no money. Things are going to get very tough before they get better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim Up North 3,727 Posted March 17, 2020 Yeah and they keep talking about small businesses and travel industry - this is going to fuck all businesses - there will be mass layoffs and redundancies across the whole economy. Many of those still In work will be required to work reduced hours for reduced pay. This is going to be very bleak and providing loans to keep companies going is not going to stop companies taking necessary steps to stop making huge losses. Paying people to do nothing like a couple of the car companies are doing is sustainable for a month, but six months? No chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,408 Posted March 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Lord Fellatio Nelson said: They wouldn't. The economy is going to crash anyway so throwing money at the problem is a no brainer. If it can prop us all up till the worst is over then it is money well spent. Our customers are starting to cancel work, my son has 7 people to find work for every day, me included, and it is going to go all shit. No work, no money. Things are going to get very tough before they get better. Yes, which is why this package doesn’t go far enough. Businesses can only really get small loans out of this. The amount of works orders my place has seen put on hold is more than a little bit concerning. And we’re two staff down so far, staff that rely on the overtime being there that can’t get to work at all. Small businesses aside for one moment, even the huge firms are going to feel the pinch. They’ll see people laid off left, right and Chelsea. This is a prolonged period of difficulty and millions of people can’t get to work and earn what they need to. Making a few grand available for smaller businesses to borrow is like turning up at a tsunami with a towel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Fellatio Nelson 6,220 Posted March 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, The Quim Reaper said: Yes, which is why this package doesn’t go far enough. Businesses can only really get small loans out of this. The amount of works orders my place has seen put on hold is more than a little bit concerning. And we’re two staff down so far, staff that rely on the overtime being there that can’t get to work at all. Small businesses aside for one moment, even the huge firms are going to feel the pinch. They’ll see people laid off left, right and Chelsea. This is a prolonged period of difficulty and millions of people can’t get to work and earn what they need to. Making a few grand available for smaller businesses to borrow is like turning up at a tsunami with a towel. Ok, I do get your point, some valid points there. I think the problem is fairly obvious. The Government has already committed to spending, if they have not already borrowed it , billions to throw at everything it can stick to. They got caught out big time, the budget could not have been presented at a worse time. Hindsight is marvellous! Now they have to borrow even more. The question they would have had is 'What if the money doesn't stop they economy crashing and burning? If It fails to stop us tanking, they will have a colossal debt to repay and an economy that cannot generate the funds to do it. The sensible way is to work out a manageable percentage that is workable if it all goes wrong As it's 15% of our GDP it will not completely hang us all if it doesn't work. Would 20% have been ok? 38%? Maybe but, honestly, people smarter than those without an economics degree will have done the calculations and worked out the risks. No, the money is not enough but we just have to have faith sometimes, hard as it is with Politicians. Maybe, as the money starts to kick into the economy, things will improve and we won't have to go down the destitute road. Hey, this is beyond Politics now, this is a Global alien Invasion by something we can't smell, see, hear blah blah. There are no Political points or rights and wrongs now. We are all in the shit together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the_engineer 1,415 Posted March 17, 2020 What are the chances of societal breakdown at this point? Really don't like were this is going. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deathray 2,941 Posted March 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, the_engineer said: What are the chances of societal breakdown at this point? Really don't like were this is going. Think it's incredibly likely if we have to go into lockdown like say France. I'm watching them, Italy and Spain closely for the first signs of civil unrest as it might spark here - there's a balance between saving life and not making those who survives lives completely unworthy of living. There's only so long you can sustain a population in stasis like that before you get open rebellion, and whilst the government are doing their best to rescue the hospitality industry the economic and financial pressure is obvious - the employment support needs to be out asap or at least a restriction on that business loan that it should be used to pay rent and then staff in that order. Imagine if this had been prior to the internet and such instructions as 'stay at home for 14 weeks where possible' were being bandied about. The internet may help a lot of people through this in a weird way. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the_engineer 1,415 Posted March 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Deathray said: Think it's incredibly likely if we have to go into lockdown like say France. I'm watching them, Italy and Spain closely for the first signs of civil unrest as it might spark here - there's a balance between saving life and not making those who survives lives completely unworthy of living. There's only so long you can sustain a population in stasis like that before you get open rebellion, and whilst the government are doing their best to rescue the hospitality industry the economic and financial pressure is obvious - the employment support needs to be out asap or at least a restriction on that business loan that it should be used to pay rent and then staff in that order. Imagine if this had been prior to the internet and such instructions as 'stay at home for 14 weeks where possible' were being bandied about. The internet may help a lot of people through this in a weird way. 100% the internet will help. We'll see gangs in areas rise up without doubt a d try to gain local control in certain areas . The most likely gangs are Islamic ones and no I'm not being Racist.They have a separate unity and religious zealots tend to rise up during times like this, especially pandemics and yes I do believe Christian groups will rise up too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deathray 2,941 Posted March 17, 2020 Quote Amid concerns that many pubs and restaurants will struggle to survive the near-lockdown conditions being encouraged by the government, ministers have said planning rules will be relaxed to allow them to serve takeaway meals. The communities secretary, Robert Jenrick, has said: We are committed to doing everything we can to tackle the pandemic and support people, businesses and communities through this difficult time. These changes will provide vital flexibility to pubs and restaurants and will ensure people are able to safely stay at home while still supporting some of the great local businesses across this country. Currently, planning permission is required for businesses to carry out a change of use to a hot food takeaway. The government is now confirming such regulations will be relaxed. This will do more for the hospitality industry than 330bn of loans.... given everyone is in their house. Although how you deliver food with no social contact (especially to those in quarantine for health/age reasons) i'm interested in, presumably drop it on the driveway and take a phone/card payment? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DevonDeathTrip 2,358 Posted March 17, 2020 We're going to be OK. We need to keep the faith, stay strong, do the right things and we'll get through this. I predict a roaring 2020s with a healthier and happier society. We cannot be ruled by fear! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Great Uncle Bulgaria 1,292 Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, the_engineer said: What are the chances of societal breakdown at this point? Really don't like were this is going. I agree, we can all laugh about having to buy the Sun to make up for the lack of loo roll (for a week at least) but at some point somebody somewhere (probably some idiot youtuber doing it for a 'prank') is going to start online rumours about a lack of basic foodstuffs, which will quickly go viral (pun intended) followed by (even more) stockpiling and we could be looking at food riots within a month. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deathray 2,941 Posted March 17, 2020 How long do we think it is before they implement the italian/french/spanish system of fining people for going outside? That's not something I ever thought I'd expect to see implemented in the UK short of an actual war, but it seems almost inevitable it will happen now. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lard Bazaar 3,800 Posted March 17, 2020 5 hours ago, Toast said: But nobody knows what the "rate of infection" is. We simply don't know how many people have got/had it. Exactly - how can they possibly know when they are only testing hospital admissions and not people in the community? It’s all about fudging the figures to make it look like the measures they are taking are adequate and proportionate. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theoldlady 2,313 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) On 17/03/2020 at 06:54, theoldlady said: Good Morning! Today is Tuesday March 17th. To my Irish and Irish-American friends: Happy St. Patrick`s Day! We start the Day with 1348 cases registered in Norway. Keep safe! Self-isolate Please! In Norway the average age of person getting this is in their 40s! At a little past 7:30 p.m. The case count is 1452, with 104 New cases so far today (the news is still giving the old figures they had earlier today, most likely to stop panic. Most of us are at home. Lots are getting laid off - they will have to use our oil fund to pay wages. Just like in the USA, the hospital in Bergen is putting up military tents outside the hospital in order to Screen people going into the hospital. They are calling for anyone with medical/nursing experience to sign-up and start working - many health workers are sick. Good morning! Today is Wednesday March 18th! We start our day in Norway with 1471 cases. No new deaths - many of the current victims had been in either Italy or Austria skiing, and they are for the most part younger 20-50 years old. Hopefully our elderly have dodged the bullit, for a while anyway. 11:30 a.m. Our 4th death has been reported. Almost 5 p.m. Two more deaths today, for a total of 6. 1550 cases so far. Almost 9 p.m. We now have 1572 cases. 22 more than 4 hours ago. We have a relatively small population, about the same population as Hamburg, Germany. Now there are 1584 cases just 1 hour later. Good night! Edited March 18, 2020 by theoldlady To show Updates 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruyff's Turn 11 Posted March 18, 2020 Whilst not knocking the help for business I think a bigger problem will be those employed who lose their work and by extension their incomes. We could see millions unable to pay rents, mortgages, council tax, utility bills and what then? Are we seriously going to contemplate evictions or cutting off peoples gas and electricity? That would be the one thing certain to bring about the breakdown of society as we know it. And the businesses themselves? Are they ever going to be able to get themselves back in the black in a world where demand is going to be seriously depressed for a long time? Its easy to see why the stock exchange is crashing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paddyfool 379 Posted March 18, 2020 Good morning! The global tally is now 200,000 confirmed cases, 8,000 deaths. No idea how many unconfirmed, of course. A hint of good news from Italy: the death rate may have stopped rising, being static at 350 per day for the past 3 days. The really good news, of course, will be when it starts falling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bentrovato 1,089 Posted March 18, 2020 A snippet from the BBC live news feed. Vaccine ready by autumn? A German pharmaceutical company working on a vaccine has suggested it might have a product ready by autumn. The company, Curevac, had been at the centre of a row over the weekend when media reports suggested Washington had tried to offer money in exchange for a vaccine exclusive for the US. The company though dismissed suggestions they'd received a concrete offer from Washington. One of the owners of the firm told German paper FAZ that, if things go well, a vaccine might be developed by early summer and could then be approved and ready for rollout by autumn. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genfærd 452 Posted March 18, 2020 11 minutes ago, Bentrovato said: A snippet from the BBC live news feed. Vaccine ready by autumn? A German pharmaceutical company working on a vaccine has suggested it might have a product ready by autumn. The company, Curevac, had been at the centre of a row over the weekend when media reports suggested Washington had tried to offer money in exchange for a vaccine exclusive for the US. The company though dismissed suggestions they'd received a concrete offer from Washington. One of the owners of the firm told German paper FAZ that, if things go well, a vaccine might be developed by early summer and could then be approved and ready for rollout by autumn. That would be incredible. Legit, unbelievable. I hope, but find this highly unlikely. They are doing an amazing job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paddyfool 379 Posted March 18, 2020 Even if ready by autumn, scaling up to sufficient production will be a massive task. Still, it all sounds positive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deathray 2,941 Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Cruyff's Turn said: Whilst not knocking the help for business I think a bigger problem will be those employed who lose their work and by extension their incomes. We could see millions unable to pay rents, mortgages, council tax, utility bills and what then? Are we seriously going to contemplate evictions or cutting off peoples gas and electricity? That would be the one thing certain to bring about the breakdown of society as we know it. And the businesses themselves? Are they ever going to be able to get themselves back in the black in a world where demand is going to be seriously depressed for a long time? Its easy to see why the stock exchange is crashing! I outlined some of my ideas earlier in this thread but the government are writing about timing of supply side measures for individuals like handing cash out. There's no point giving everybody hard cash to stimulate the economy this side of the pandemic, because they'll just bank it or use it to cover essential bills, we need to give hard cash dividends to every citizen when we come out the other side. I'm just not convinced they'll do it when we get there. But covering people's bills is essential in the next few months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TQR 14,408 Posted March 18, 2020 11 hours ago, Deathray said: How long do we think it is before they implement the italian/french/spanish system of fining people for going outside? That's not something I ever thought I'd expect to see implemented in the UK short of an actual war, but it seems almost inevitable it will happen now. I’m not going to say my source, just in case it’s not true (it’s reliable enough to be of concern, though) but I’ve heard the lockdown will be announced tomorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theoldlady 2,313 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) On 16/03/2020 at 14:40, Genfærd said: We surpassed you here in Denmark. 4 deaths now. Expected to raise drastically in the coming week. No new cases since we don't test anymore. Country is about to shut down everything that is not a grocery store or pharmacist, and force us to stay in. What is this timeline. Sadly Norway has its 4th death. We are shut down. Most of us are working from home. The shit will hit the fan soon. Keep safe there in Danmark. I have a niece and her family there. Worried. Edit: 2 more deaths for a total of 6. (3 New today, Wednesday 18. March) Edited March 18, 2020 by theoldlady Update 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
